"Mortal Evidence" Dr.Wecht

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Elle, Mar 21, 2004.

  1. Elle

    Elle Member

    http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/business/s_185318.html


    Three-quarters of deaths don't fall in those categories; old age and illness carry off most of us. Accidents take the next largest number, then homicides and suicides, Dr. Wecht points out in "Mortal Evidence," co-authored with journalists Greg Saitz and Mark Curriden


    He also thinks there's enough evidence to hold the parents of slain 6-year-old Colorado beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey on criminal charges.


    Will Lin Wood go after Dr. Wecht because of his thoughts?
     
  2. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Linn Wood already tried and Wecht hasn't backed down. Why should he? While I personally don't agree with him about the theory of a sex game gone wrong, he is right on about the physical evidence and the absurdity of an intruder theory. Lots of people havn't backed down--it just that interest in this case has waned and nobody really seems to wants to touch it since it's not interesting anymore to most people anyway.
     
  3. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    PS Wecht, for those of you who don't know, believes Jonbenet was abused sexually before the murder, although he can't say for sure how often it occured or when it started. He has said many times that the opening to the vaginal canal was twice the size of a normal six YO's and the erosion of the hymen was also indicative of chronic sexual abuse. He believes that if not for the Ramsey's money and position, John Ramsey would have been in jail immediately after the murder.

    What Wecht does not explain (to the best of my recollection) is why there was no semen on or around the body, nor does he ever explain why, if digital penetration was the avenue of abuse, it couldn't have been Patsy or even Burke who inflicted those injuries. Or even Jonbenet herself even though that is a huge stretch.

    If semen had been found on the body this case would have been over the first week. So the question becomes, were those vaginal injuries sexual in nature, or were they punishment for bedwetting? As I've said many times on this forum, we had a case here in Austin five years ago where two parents tied fishing line around their son's penis as a punishment for bedwetting and eventually the penis developed gangriene and dropped off. So don't count out the punishment angle because it can and does happen.

    Who knows? Maybe JR was abusing her but it had just been a couple of times and there was no penetration (of the penis). Maybe it was just starting and hadn't reached a certain level. Maybe JBR and JR were interrupted before the deed was done! Maybe JBR got those injuries playing doctor with someone else. Maybe Patsy did it in a rage and had punished her that way before.

    These are all questions that have never been answered to anybody's satisfaction and hence the lack of charges in my opinion
     
  4. Little

    Little Member

    Wecht has never wavered on his belief that this was "an inside job".

    Little
     
  5. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    yup

    Why would anyone disagree with what John Ramsey himself said that morning? I mean he would know...
     
  6. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    psssst, hey Bob

    ever hear of a condom?

    Besides, what's the diff between an intruder and JR? If a male intruder sexually abused her, why no semen there? Condom? Where'd it go?

    I believe one of the two did it. Which one, I don't know.

    I'm late for my mom's b'day party. Gotta run.
     
  7. Elle

    Elle Member

    I was never one of the posters who believed John Ramsey sexually abused his daughter, but the evidence is there, that this little girl was abused. I hardly think rough treatment from Patsy, when it came to dealing with JonBenét's bedwetting, would cause the enlargement of JonBenét's vagina; therefore someone was responsible for this internal intrusion. Digital penetration on the 26 December does not explain the wooden shards from the broken part of the paintbrush, Bob. This was to help camouflage the previous history.

    A mother knows a little six year old daughter's body pretty well, Bob, from diapering her when a baby, up until she is capable of attending to herself. I had three sons, but I have a few granddaughters, and I for sure would have known if there was something wrong when these little girls have been left with me over the years. Their mothers are dealing with them every single day.

    As for Patsy Ramsey's testimony in the Police Files, she hardly knew a thing about her daughter. She couldn't recall if her daughter had a shower on Christmas day. She couldn't recall if her daughter washed hands at the White's party. Every mother knew she was a first class liar. I'll guarantee she knew the colour of the hair dye she used on JonBenét and the shade of lipstick.

    JonBenét's body was washed down, so all traces of semen were gone down the drain, if there was any (?).

    Patsy and John Ramsey know more about this side of things and I believe that both of them are first class liars with all the inconsistencies I have come across in my research in this case.
    We all know what they are. No need to list them.

    I am pleased that Dr.Wecht is standing by his statement. I agree with you. He is right on with the physical evidence and non existant intruder. You are also right about people losing interest, bar those here, who are still posting and researching the case.
     
  8. 1000 Sparks

    1000 Sparks Active Member

    Elle

    You are right about that. Most 6 year olds don't fix there bath water or decide if and when they should take a bath. Once a kid gets in the tub you have to tell them to get out or they'd stay in there for hours. And Patsy doesn't remember?

    I believe Patsy killed JonBenet and John haaalllped.
     
  9. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Wood shard (s) were not found in her vagina, there was one tiny piece of what might have been one shard in there. One. This piece could easily have been transferred on a finger.
     
  10. Elle

    Elle Member

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/jonbenet4.html

    From page 4 of the autopsy

    A 1 cm red-purple area of abrasion is located on the right posterolateral area of the 1 x 1 cm hymenal orifice.

    From Page 9 of the autopsy

    Vaginal Mucosa: All of the sections contain vascular congestion, and focal interstitial chronic inflammation. The smallest piece of tissue from the 7:00 position of the vaginal wall/hymen, contains epithelial erosion with underlying capillary congestion. A small number of red cells is present on the eroded surface, as is birefringent foreign material. Acute inflammatory infiltrate is not seen.

    .......................................................................................................

    Actually, I remember reading it as just a wood shard, although it isn't mentioned in the autopsy here. Do you have the source for this, Bob?

    I suppose we can take the “ birefringent foreign material†as the wood shard.
     
  11. Elle

    Elle Member

    Re: Elle

    This is what I think too, Spark. John Ramsey was involved in the staging. Patsy's replies in the NE Police Files don't portray her as an attentive mother at all, except when attending the child beauty pageants with JonBenét.
     
  12. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Well the whole family is "inattentive." I mean Patsy was bellowing at the top of her lungs right outside Burke's door and he "never woke up" and yet somehow JR heard her from the shower on the 3rd floor. Burke later told cops he could hear it when a person opened the refridgerator door downstairs, but he slept through Patsy screeching like a wounded swamp possum.

    You'd almost think they were all lying.
     
  13. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    I frankly have always seen this case the same as Wecht, and purposely didn't read any of the books, including Wecht's, until I had looked at enough evidence to formulate my own theory. I was surprised my own and Wecht's were very similar.

    I remember something about a faint smell of bleach about the body, don't know if that's substantiated anywhere. But bleach is a well known agent to destroy DNA sources, like blood and semen. Heavy bleach was used in the Peterson case to clean up the kitchen area; who used it we may never know. In the Ramsey case, we know that the body was wiped down, it could have been so with bleach water for that purpose, so no blood, no semen, no sweat, no spit, nor urine EXCEPT of course for JB's post-mortem release. This also gives us a clue as to when the clean-up took place, i.e., prior to death, along with both injuries!

    What was missed in the clean up, however, was the fiber evidence, both from Patsy's sweater and John's. Pasty's fibers were entwined in the ligature cords while John's fibers were located in the crotch of JB's panties. Since there was a post-mortem release of urine and vaginal fluid, could it be that John's sweater fibers were evacuated with the vaginal fluid after death? And if so, that would place John and his sweater in the vaginal tract prior to death by some fashion.

    Now, are we suggesting that if John's role in all of this was limited to the cover-up alone, that the ONLY place he staged anything was in THAT area? Then if so, we can only conclude logically that it was John who used a portion of the paintbrush to penetrate the vagina, which left the birefringement DNA. If it had been Patsy, or anyone else, wouldn't fiber evidence also have been deposited from their clothing in lieu of or in addition to John's?

    So then it would have to be a tag-team staging, Patsy doing the upper body and John doing the lower body. Unless of course, John's sweatered arm was in that area of JB for other purposes.

    Nevertheless, the head injury, the strangulation by cord and the vaginal asault all took place prior to death, and only 2 peoples' fiber DNA were identified on the body. Patsy's was contained to the upper body only, John's was contained to the private area of the body only. The evidence paints the picture, and Wecht knew long before any of us did what forensic evidence had been found. That's what led him to his conclusions.
     
  14. Elle

    Elle Member

    John Ramsey reacted with disgust when questioned about these black fibres from his sweater being present in JonBenét's panties. It's possible what you state above could have happened, either before her death or after death.

    There was also mention of blue fibres too, DejaNu, from either a wash cloth or a bath robe.

    It certainly looks like team work with evidence left from both parents, and as Dr. Wecht has stated. There's enough evidence to hold the parents of slain 6-year-old Colorado beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey on criminal charges. So....how come
    they weren't charged?

    This definitely was enough evidence to have nabbed both Ramseys, and here they are in Michigan getting ready to launch a political career (?).
     
  15. Elle

    Elle Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2004
  16. purr

    purr Active Member

    SEXUAL ABUSE

    KILLED jonbenet's soul
    long before she was murdered!

    i dont have the quote,
    but when jonbenet said
    to someone.......i dont feel pretty....
    those words were very telling.

    someone murdered her soul,
    her mind, her spirit, long
    before they murdered
    her fleshly body!

    how sad for someone
    to have tortured her
    precious little soul!

    damn them!
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Thanks for your posts and the link, Elle. I knew Ruthee when we were all at JW and she was a remarkable lady. I remember the day she died, and all I could think was that she was now with JonBenet, whom she loved very dearly. God bless Ruthee!

    I re-read the portion of that page about the blue bath robe. I know that there was talk on the forums after the Ramseys' 2000 interview transcripts were available that in addition to John and Patsy's sweater fibers found on the body, there were multi-colored fibers found as well. I don't remember that any source was identified.

    In those transcripts, John was asked to explain the fiber evidence as you said. He attributed Patsy's sweater fibers to just that--her dramatic falling upon JB's body when it came to rest UPstairs near the Christmas tree. While this possibly explains her sweater fibers on the body itself, it does not explain the presence of those same sweater fibers found on the white blanket that JB was wrapped in, that remained in the wine room in the basement! That blanket did not come upstairs with the body, yet her sweater fibers were found on it as well. How do we explain how those fibers got on that blanket if it was not on JB's bed the night before and was left in the wine room where Patsy and John claim Patsy never was?????

    And John never gave an explanation for his sweater fibers found in her panties. He just denied any sexual activity with her.....
     
  18. Texan

    Texan FFJ Senior Member

    most damning of all

    The fibers that are the most damning of all are the ones found in the knot of the garrotte. No amount of falling on top of the poor baby would cause fibers to be entwined in the knot. I don't know who did what that night but if those fibers were truly found in the knot of the garrotte it would make me think PR had to be there when that thing was tied around her throat. I don't remember the source of the info on those fibers but I will look around and try to find it.
     
  19. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Maybe it was Prescilla White wearing Patsy's vest.


    Just kidding.
     
  20. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    If Priscilla ever wore anything of Patsy's it would drown her. She is all of a size 4 besides being model beautiful.

    I have a copy of Wecht's book if anyone wants it. Email me at tgrif@xmission.com ok?
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice