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  1. #13

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    I frankly have always seen this case the same as Wecht, and purposely didn't read any of the books, including Wecht's, until I had looked at enough evidence to formulate my own theory. I was surprised my own and Wecht's were very similar.

    I remember something about a faint smell of bleach about the body, don't know if that's substantiated anywhere. But bleach is a well known agent to destroy DNA sources, like blood and semen. Heavy bleach was used in the Peterson case to clean up the kitchen area; who used it we may never know. In the Ramsey case, we know that the body was wiped down, it could have been so with bleach water for that purpose, so no blood, no semen, no sweat, no spit, nor urine EXCEPT of course for JB's post-mortem release. This also gives us a clue as to when the clean-up took place, i.e., prior to death, along with both injuries!

    What was missed in the clean up, however, was the fiber evidence, both from Patsy's sweater and John's. Pasty's fibers were entwined in the ligature cords while John's fibers were located in the crotch of JB's panties. Since there was a post-mortem release of urine and vaginal fluid, could it be that John's sweater fibers were evacuated with the vaginal fluid after death? And if so, that would place John and his sweater in the vaginal tract prior to death by some fashion.

    Now, are we suggesting that if John's role in all of this was limited to the cover-up alone, that the ONLY place he staged anything was in THAT area? Then if so, we can only conclude logically that it was John who used a portion of the paintbrush to penetrate the vagina, which left the birefringement DNA. If it had been Patsy, or anyone else, wouldn't fiber evidence also have been deposited from their clothing in lieu of or in addition to John's?

    So then it would have to be a tag-team staging, Patsy doing the upper body and John doing the lower body. Unless of course, John's sweatered arm was in that area of JB for other purposes.

    Nevertheless, the head injury, the strangulation by cord and the vaginal asault all took place prior to death, and only 2 peoples' fiber DNA were identified on the body. Patsy's was contained to the upper body only, John's was contained to the private area of the body only. The evidence paints the picture, and Wecht knew long before any of us did what forensic evidence had been found. That's what led him to his conclusions.

  2. #14
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    DejaNu:

    What was missed in the clean up, however, was the fiber evidence, both from Patsy's sweater and John's. Pasty's fibers were entwined in the ligature cords while John's fibers were located in the crotch of JB's panties. Since there was a post-mortem release of urine and vaginal fluid, could it be that John's sweater fibers were evacuated with the vaginal fluid after death? And if so, that would place John and his sweater in the vaginal tract prior to death by some fashion.
    John Ramsey reacted with disgust when questioned about these black fibres from his sweater being present in JonBenét's panties. It's possible what you state above could have happened, either before her death or after death.

    There was also mention of blue fibres too, DejaNu, from either a wash cloth or a bath robe.

    DejaNu:

    Now, are we suggesting that if John's role in all of this was limited to the cover-up alone, that the ONLY place he staged anything was in THAT area? Then if so, we can only conclude logically that it was John who used a portion of the paintbrush to penetrate the vagina, which left the birefringement DNA. If it had been Patsy, or anyone else, wouldn't fiber evidence also have been deposited from their clothing in lieu of or in addition to John's?
    It certainly looks like team work with evidence left from both parents, and as Dr. Wecht has stated. There's enough evidence to hold the parents of slain 6-year-old Colorado beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey on criminal charges. So....how come
    they weren't charged?

    This definitely was enough evidence to have nabbed both Ramseys, and here they are in Michigan getting ready to launch a political career (?).
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  3. #15
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    Default blue bath robe

    Ruthee talks about the blue bath robe here, DejaNu.

    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/nebu...explained.html

    If TV is boring tonight, no harm done in reading Ruth's theory. This remarkable lady must have spent many hours for the Justice of JonBenét.
    Last edited by Elle_1; March 21, 2004, 8:32 pm at Sun Mar 21 20:32:16 UTC 2004.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  4. #16
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    Default SEXUAL ABUSE

    KILLED jonbenet's soul
    long before she was murdered!

    i dont have the quote,
    but when jonbenet said
    to someone.......i dont feel pretty....
    those words were very telling.

    someone murdered her soul,
    her mind, her spirit, long
    before they murdered
    her fleshly body!

    how sad for someone
    to have tortured her
    precious little soul!

    damn them!
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  5. #17

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    Thanks for your posts and the link, Elle. I knew Ruthee when we were all at JW and she was a remarkable lady. I remember the day she died, and all I could think was that she was now with JonBenet, whom she loved very dearly. God bless Ruthee!

    I re-read the portion of that page about the blue bath robe. I know that there was talk on the forums after the Ramseys' 2000 interview transcripts were available that in addition to John and Patsy's sweater fibers found on the body, there were multi-colored fibers found as well. I don't remember that any source was identified.

    In those transcripts, John was asked to explain the fiber evidence as you said. He attributed Patsy's sweater fibers to just that--her dramatic falling upon JB's body when it came to rest UPstairs near the Christmas tree. While this possibly explains her sweater fibers on the body itself, it does not explain the presence of those same sweater fibers found on the white blanket that JB was wrapped in, that remained in the wine room in the basement! That blanket did not come upstairs with the body, yet her sweater fibers were found on it as well. How do we explain how those fibers got on that blanket if it was not on JB's bed the night before and was left in the wine room where Patsy and John claim Patsy never was?????

    And John never gave an explanation for his sweater fibers found in her panties. He just denied any sexual activity with her.....

  6. #18
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    Default most damning of all

    The fibers that are the most damning of all are the ones found in the knot of the garrotte. No amount of falling on top of the poor baby would cause fibers to be entwined in the knot. I don't know who did what that night but if those fibers were truly found in the knot of the garrotte it would make me think PR had to be there when that thing was tied around her throat. I don't remember the source of the info on those fibers but I will look around and try to find it.

  7. #19
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    Maybe it was Prescilla White wearing Patsy's vest.


    Just kidding.

  8. #20
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    If Priscilla ever wore anything of Patsy's it would drown her. She is all of a size 4 besides being model beautiful.

    I have a copy of Wecht's book if anyone wants it. Email me at tgrif@xmission.com ok?
    tgrif@xmission.com
    FFJ C/O Tricia Griffith
    6300 N Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H #214
    Park City UT
    84098




    I am unaware of anyone who's profited from exploiting the Ramsey murder over a longer period of time, with a greater disregard for the principles of accuracy and fairness, than the production team of Mills and Tracey.They truly do inhabit a different moral universe from real journalists. It's the difference between journalism and propaganda.
    Alan Prendergast,reporter for Westword

  9. #21
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    Default Yes, I heard that about Priscilla

    I heard she is petite and very lovely. Patsy couldn't get her fat as$ in Priscilla's clothes, no way.
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  10. #22
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    Nice you knew Ruthee, DejaNu. What an amazing amount of work she did. I'm pleased ACandyRose has her work on file where Jams can't touch it. I posted at JW for a short spell before it closed.

    You're right, DejaNu. John Ramsey denied being with JonBenét for anything sexual. Lin wood interrupted. The blanket and blue fibres haven't been explained either. Frustrating! I wonder if Tom Bennett has checked these out (?).

    Patsy Ramsey was quick to let the police know Priscilla White had a red and black jacket like hers, and even stated she could have been wearing Priscilla's. Reading Tricia's post, this doesn't seem possible, but she did say this. Trust me! If anyone comes across this until I have the time to find it, please post it. It would be easier to find doing a search of Spade's police files.

    Ruthee was right, it was well planned. The Ramseys needed witnesses for their plan to work, with both of them making contact with JonBenét's body after she was dead. They're free!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  11. #23
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    Default Wooden shard/s Bob (?)

    Bob, you will remember we were talking about the wooden shards found in JonBenét's vagina. It appears to be shards in this document:

    Wolf vs Ramsey Civil Case 1:00-CV-1187-JEC
    Carnes Order March 31, 2003 (Page 11 thru 20)

    http://www.acandyrose.com/03312003carnes11-20.htm

    Page 17

    12 The bleeding in JonBenet's genital area indicates she was alive when she was assaulted. (SMF 48; PSMF 48.) Her hymen was torn and material consistent with wooden shards from the paintbrush used to make the garrote were found in her vagina. (SMF 48-49; PMSF 48-49.) No evidence, however, suggests that she was the victim of chronic sexual abuse. (SMF 50; PSMF 50.)
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  12. #24

    Default

    What was found in JB's vagina, from what I've read, is birefringent material. That can be cellulose. It COULD be from the paintbrush, but it could also be paper from a PullUp, IMO. Of course, I stand to be corrected on this issue.



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