Patsy Ramsey's cancer returns

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Watching You, Mar 25, 2004.

  1. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    According to the National ENQUIRER (April 5 edition), Patsy learned in January her cancer has returned. She is vowing not to let her health crisis interfere with her husband John's planned campaign for public office.

    Patsy is being treated in Charlevoix rather than travel to the NIH in Bethesda, MD, because she doesn't want to upset John's campaign.

    Patsy was first diagnosed with advanced ovarian cancer in 1993. On Feb 12, 2002, blood tests showed a recurrance of her cancer. Again, a year later, in January 2003, doctors found new tumors. In July 2003, they bought the Charlevoix house and Patsy dared to believe she had once again beat cancer. Just a few months later, she was told the cancer was back.

    I believe in miracles, but I think Patsy's about out of miracles. Believe it or not, that thought does not make me feel good.
     
  2. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    If this true

    it kind of makes one wonder where John Ramsey's priorities are - with his wife or running for office. Maybe Bulldog Stine is holding Patsy's hand during the chemo while JR's tending to business.
     
  3. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    Something seems odd about this story. Patsy does not want to travel to NIH for treatments which could save her life, but does travel to West Virginia to give a talk about cancer and, by example, conveys to her listeners that pleasing one's husband is more important than saving one's life?
     
  4. Sprocket

    Sprocket Member

    Do we know specifically, where the cancer has returned? Ovaries? Lungs? Metastisized (sp?) someplace else like the liver or pancreas?

    If it's new area, I'd like to read what Caroline Myss has to say about cancer spreading to that area.
     
  5. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Well I certainly don't wish death for Patsy and I am sorry it has returned once again. Wonder if John is going after the sympathy vote?
     
  6. Freebird

    Freebird Active Member

    Same old chit, different day. Find a new angle this one is getting old.
     
  7. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    I've had more than enough family/friend deaths for this year, my quota is all filled up--so Patsy pull it together. I mean it. What the hell is going on with this year?

    Can I ask a serious question about cancer which I have been meaning to ask? Patsy said many times that she was "cured" of cancer--and yet this seems like the fourth or fifth time it's "returned." So what does being "cured" mean?
     
  8. Sprocket

    Sprocket Member

    What Pats' probably meant, (just a guess here) was, that she was in remission..... and it had not "returned" within a time frame that is considered "good" by the medical establishment......and often after that, people consider themselves, "cured."

    Something to that effect. She was in remission for a long enough period of time, that she's considered "cancer free."
     
  9. "J_R"

    "J_R" Shutter Bug Bee

    Don't know WY. Belle had a whole pocket full of miracles but even she finally ran out. I'm with Bob though - enough is enough and it's only March.

    I will keep Patsy in my prayers.

    Meanwhile, John what the "L" are you thinking? Get off the campaign trail and spend time with your wife. Life is too precious to waste even one moment being away from a loved one who is gravely ill.
     
  10. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    The article does not say

    where the cancer returned to.

    BobC, my sister used to say an invisible leash holds all cancer patients to the chance the cancer could recur.

    I have read that by the time a tumor is big enough to have been found in the body, it has already sent out cells that take up residence in other parts of the body where they burrow in and seem to sleep. Sleeper cells are very good at hiding, even from the chemo treatments that seem to kill the original tumors. That's why they may say they've been cured, because the doctors say they can find no trace of cancer in their bodies, but those cells that the tumor sent out are just biding their time.

    Patsy was one of the fortunate ones who has lived a long time since her original diagnosis of Stage IV (or was it V?) cancer. I saw it so many times with my own sister - they got all the cancer, they could find no sign of cancer in her body, then it recurred, and they scraped cancer cells off the bone, and she was given another reprieve.

    I think "cured" is a relative term. Cured for how long? In remission might be a better term. Some people really are cured of cancer. Others, like Patsy, are destined to have those sleeper cells spring to life at some future time.

    Here's a shocker for you. We all have cancer cells in us. Every day our immune systems kill those cells. That's why I say it's so important to keep our immune systems healthy. In times of great trauma, our immune systems can get bogged down, and that can let those cancer cells take hold. Some people are cured of their original cancers but later an entirely different kind of cancer sets in.

    Patsy's original cancer was ovarian cancer. I believe it metastasized to her liver (those sleeper cancer cells?), because it was said it was metatastic cancer. I was never quite sure if it was a metastasis of the ovarian cancer to her liver or a completely new cancer (liver cancer) originating in her liver. Either way, cancer in the liver is a very bad thing.

    My cousin (by marriage) died from from liver cancer just a year before my sister died from cancer. It's an ever-progressive disease. I also think I've read that cancer originating in the liver is not very common, but metastasis to the liver is.

    So, as I said, I usually don't pay attention to anyone who says they've been "cured" of cancer unless that cure is 20 years or more. Cancer is just too unpredictable.
     
  11. Prairie

    Prairie Member

    First Patsy then Tammy Faye Baker Messner.

    Perhaps Patsy isn't going for a "cure". Maybe just being comfortable is enough for now.
     
  12. Sprocket

    Sprocket Member

    From what I've read, (don't know if this is accepted interpretation in the standard Med. Establishment~~this is from Peter J. D'Adamo's Blood Type Diet web site) is that our immune system, ~ maybe overwhelmed with what the auto immune system is dealing with on a day to day basis, ~ starts to fail to recognize, when cells "turn" from normal, everyday average cells, into slightly abnormal cells, thus, the abnormal cells, continue to grow, and run amok. When things are working well, they recognize these cells that have gone awry, and destroy them.

    I could dig up some more info, if anyone is interested.

    BTW, regarding breast cancer. The single most high risk factor, over riding all other know risk factors such as family history, diet, etc., is blood type. Yes, your blood type. Blood Type A, has the highest risk, of getting breast cancer, over any other blood type. Blood Type A's, also have the poorest surivial rates, and higher reoccurrence rates, over any other type. (Following right behind that, is Type AB, with actually a higher risk than A. But since Type AB is only about 4% of the population, there are many, many more Type A's ~approx 41% of the population~ that get breast cancer.)

    The gene for breast cancer, (that was first discoverd in 1984), sits right on top of, the Blood Type Gene. "Gene Linkage," a well known but little understood phenomenon is the ability of seemingly unrelated genes, influencing those that are right beside each other, or close by.
     
  13. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Thanks guys. I've heard lots of people say their cancer was in remission, but never heard of anybody being cured of it. My grandmother died of it in 1987 and I remember that at first it was "operable" so everybody was relieved--but three weeks later it was no longer operable. My dad said he was walking around five miles per day in perfectly good health, and then three weeks later it spread so fast he was on a respirator.

    uhhh--have you all been to Cyberslueths? Something I hinted about two weeks ago just came out.
     
  14. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    In the recesses of my black heart,

    I guess I could have predicted this return of Patsy's cancer. Does it seem like that every time some big thing is announced or has happened her cancer returns! Now I am not saying that I wish her ill. Heavens no I certainly don't because I want her to stand trial for murder some day.
    But one of you did sort of make the mention that maybe she is trying to help John by having this return of her cancer made public to help win some votes for him.

    He didn't help her out in the past when she flew to NIH for other treatments so why would he now.

    Is this the drama queen in action again? Makes me wonder how often a person can go on and on with treatments.
     
  15. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I could be wrong

    but I have never heard of people with no signs of cancer in their bodies getting cancer treatments, unless they are at the very tail end of their planned treatments and a couple extra are given for good measure. I read somewhere, maybe here, that this could be a maintenance type of thing - like she gets chemo treatments every so often to assure the cancer doesn't come back. Like I said, I could be wrong, but I don't think that's what happens.

    Chemotherapy is toxic to our bodies. Chemo kills human cells. The reason it sometimes works on cancer cells is because cancer cells multiply at a faster rate than normal cells. The chemo does kill normal cells as well as cancer cells, but it kills more cancer cells than normal because of the rate of growth of the cancer cells. To me, that's the only reason chemo can even be justified.

    Why would anyone who is getting good test results, showing no cancer cells in their bodies, submit to treatments that would kill their normal cells and deplete their immune systems? It makes no sense to me. I find it hard to believe people showing no cancer in their bodies have chemotherapy as a form of maintenance. It is far too toxic to the body to use it that way.

    Look at it this way - chemo is poison to the body. It kills white blood cells. It's purpose is to kill cancer cells. Doctors don't use chemo as a preventative measure, to my knowledge. It would be kind of like giving healthy people who have never had cancer chemo to prevent getting cancer. To me, it's a no brainer.
     
  16. Misty4

    Misty4 Member

    That's sad about Patsy. I wonder where the cancer has metasized to this time or perhaps still in the liver.

    I've just been through cancer (lymphosarcoma) with my Golden Retriever, Daisy Mae.

    The drugs they give (which for a dog are the same as for humans) are in themselves carcinogens. There are different protocols some of which give better results than others. The best protocols are those which use several different toxins because cancer cells have an uncanny way of becoming immune to a specific toxin.

    What chemotherapy does is kill cells (good and bad) -- that leaves your immune system compromised until your body can replenish itself. Even though the toxin kills good and bad cells, it doesn't necessarily mean that all the bad cells will be destroyed. Remission is when cancer can't be deteched through technology methods.

    Because blood from all parts of the body must pass through the liver for filtration, cancer cells from other organs and tissues easily reach the liver, where they can lodge and grow into secondary tumors. So, my guess is that perhaps her liver cancer has returned.

    Well, I wish her well any ways. Poor Burke -- he's had to endure such trauma in his short life
     
  17. Ginja

    Ginja Member

    Cured v Remission?

    Well, this is another thing the voters of Michigan should be aware of...that is, John's "loving" treatment of his wife through her cancer ordeals. He's NEVER gotten involved, leaving it to other family members to "tend" to Patsy's needs.

    This is just another example of the little care he has for what goes on in his family. As I think of it, he shows no emotion for his wife's cancer bouts and showed no emotion at JonBenet's brutal slaying. Yet...he fell completely apart when his older daughter died in an accident. Perhaps this is a clue as to John's past relationships, even though everyone denies it...as they would!

    His possible "abuses" of his daughters and wife strikes a chord. He had no control over what happened to Beth and because of that loss of control, was emotionally paralyzed. OTOH, this could point to the fact that he DOES have control over his actions with his wife and youngest daughter and because of that control, doesn't show any emotional grief.

    The mother of one of my co-workers had breast cancer 8 years ago and had a partial masectomy (one breast). At the five year mark, the family had a huge party to celebrate her "cure" of cancer. Patsy celebrated similarly when she was "free" of the ovarian cancer at her five year mark. So perhaps that's the difference between cured and remission? However, Patsy's cancer did come back...after the five year mark had come and gone.

    So, too, did my friend's mother's cancer. The tests came back positive just yesterday and she'll be having the other breast removed on Tuesday. In her first bout, the "spot" of cancer measured 2 cm's. This one only measures one cm but she's still going to have the breast removed for 'safety's sake."

    Last Friday I got a call that my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer. She felt no pain or lumps, but started bleeding from the nipple. She had a mammogram and there's a large mass. The doctor scheduled her for a biopsy but "assured" her it would not come back benign. That was Friday.

    Monday I got a call that she'd been rushed to the hospital with a possible stroke! They ran every test under the sun and found her blood sugar was up to 600! The doctors asked her about her diabetes and did she take insulin. She told them she didn't have diabetes. The doctor said, "you do now." So she's still in the hospital while they try to stablize her blood sugar. They were going to do the biopsy while she was there, but we just found out yesterday that medicare won't pay for the biopsy since she was admitted to the hospital in diabetic shock! So she has to be discharged and then readmitted in order to have medicare pay.

    Tell me this country's health care isn't frucked up!

    Locally, we have Blue Cross/Blue Shield and there's a major scandal, as well as investigation going on. The state legislature has introduced something like 68 new bills. The reason? Apparently, BC/BS is a non-profit organization who increases its fees annually and keeps sending us letters that our $25 co-pays are going to $50 in April!!! But that's nothing compared to the president of BC/BS whose annual salary is $500,000 and who "borrowed" $1.2million this year, so far!, on his pension plan.

    Yesterday, BC/BS had the balls to balk at the state's attempt to have it turned into a profit organization.
     
  18. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Ginja,

    I am so sorry to hear about your Mother. I will keep her in my prayers and thoughts. What happened to her is probably a blessing in disguise. A good friend of mine was involved in an auto accident. He had had 1 beer (yes, really only one) and when he blew on the breathalizer it showed of course, that he had been drinking. He opted to have the blood analysis which was done and when that came back his blood sugar was as sky high as your Mother's was. He had no symtoms of anything though now he recalls that he had days where he didn't feel very well but again nothing specific. Now he has his diet and weight under control and has been taking insulin but has had to decrease it and may go on the oral pill to help boost and maintain his blood sugar.
     
  19. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Ginja, I am so terribly sorry to hear about your mother. Please let her know that me and my family are keeping her in constant prayer vigil. Let us know how this proceeds, k?

    Yes, Medicare sucks. But it's easy enough to discharge her home for 24 hours then readmit her under the breast CA diagnosis. She is lucky to have coverage at all, and that's the truth. So many don't and are just SOL. It's going to be just fine, I know it. Hang in there, keep the faith and know that we are all here for you and your mom.

    And yes, healthcare in America sucks too. It truly is a crisis. Let's not even talk about workers comp or disability or dental needs, k? Just keep your focus and your spirits up, girl!!!
     
  20. Elle

    Elle Member

    Ginja,

    I join the others in saying how sorry I am about your mother's health. Sincerely hope she pulls through this. I have learned a lot here reading over these posts about Cancer. You are all so very open about many personal things in your lives and family.
    One of the things I admire about the posters here. Also hope you're staying strong through this yourself.
     
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