So, the Fingernail and Panty DNA matched, hey?

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Watching You, May 20, 2004.

  1. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Ha! According to a poster at the swamp named Hudson, Lou Smit personally told her there were four (4) markers in the foreign DNA found under JBR's fingernails. FOUR MARKERS

    I don't know who this Hudson is, but jameson has allowed the post to stand, and in fact has posted right after the post, so she must approve of it seeing as she doesn't want "misinformation" on her forum.

    Well, then, what's it all about, Alfie? If Hudson has spoken to Lou Smit as she claims, and if Lou Smit informed her that there were only FOUR markers in the fingernail DNA, then the whole bloody lot of them have been lying for years to the public about the fingernail DNA matching the underwear DNA.

    Four freaking markers - HEY MAME, WHERE ARE YA, MAME? FOUR freaking markers, mame - there's your "flesh" underneath JB's fingernails, you blooming idiot.

    So, how do FOUR markers make a match with anything? This is just one more example of how the RST has lied about the evidence in this case.

    I have to take into consideration this is a swamp poster, and her claims to have spoken to Lou Smit could be a pack of lies. However, I also have to take into account the fact that jameson has not denied what Hudson has said about the DNA under JB's fingernails only being good for four markers.

    The next sound you hear is jammy sue imploding over Hudson's "misinformation."

    LIARS!!!!
     
  2. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Remember how Mary Suma use to love to point out how she had spoken with the great one, Lou Smit? He told her there was "blood and flesh" under JBR's fingernails.

    Hudsen is an annoying poster at another forum. However this poster could be Mary Suma coming back in all her genius glory.
     
  3. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    These Hudsons are not the same poster, Tricia, unless the Hudson at the swamp is deliberately dumbing down. That's a distinct possibility, because as annoying as the other Hudson/Teacher/whatever was, she's no one's fool.

    I would like to know if it is true that the fingernail DNA only yielded four markers, because if it is true, it's just one more lie mame told along with Lou Smit and Lin Wood. I expect jameson to not tell the truth.

    I'll bet Lin knows. Let's ask Lin.
     
  4. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    If you look at the initial CBI report from January 1997, the report which Ramsey defenders depended on for years as proof of an intruder, you can see for yourself that of all the nails on JonBenet's hands, only one marker came up for the whole of one hand, and only two came up for the other hand. So that would account for three of the four Hudson said were found.
     
  5. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Does anyone have a link to this report? I know I'm getting old, but I don't recall seeing this before. I questioned that fingernail DNA over and over, especially when Suma came at us with the "flesh" under JB's nails that had surely come from her fighting her attacker. I knew it was BS, because if she had scratched her attacker and had flesh under her nails, there would have been no problem getting beautiful, full strands of DNA. If I had had these numbers before, I would have been all over the RST for lying that the fingernail DNA matched the panty DNA.

    It's just another damn lie they have repeated over and over and over.
     
  6. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    If even one blood cell, or "flesh" cell were found under JBR's fingernails, we wouldn't even be having this conversation and somebody would be behind bars. I don't know why it is so hard for some people to fathom how TINY a DNA strand is. Imagine a speck of dust and then think many times smaller.

    It is my understanding that Lou Smit has never been privy to the results of the DNA tests that went on after he left the case.
     
  7. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Guys I can't find the CBI report anywhere.

    Any help would be appreciated.
     
  8. 1000 Sparks

    1000 Sparks Active Member

    Just for the record..

    this is not a dna case.
     
  9. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    from page 237 PMPT

    "....Bill McReynold's DNA results. On the surface the report seemed to exclude him. His DNA did not match the DNA found on JonBenet's underpants. Nor did it match some of the DNA that the CBI has found under her fingernails, which the coroner Meyer has clipped and perserved. However, the CBI pointed out that the material found under her fingernails showed signs of contamination and the markers on the DNA were weak. The origin of the contamination had yet to be determined
     
  10. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I hate being lied to. There are issues that we know are false because we've seen the reports and interviews and can easily point those issues out. Just going on common sense and a very rudimentary understanding of how DNA works, I knew there wasn't good DNA under JBR's fingernails, but I wasn't aware there were so few markers. What genius decided that the panty DNA and fingernail DNA matched, when there were not enough markers there to match anything, and the ones that were there were contaminated/degraded? Was this more of Lou Smit's doing?

    This is gross misrepresentation of the facts, and I resent it. Why do the RST have to create misrepresentations like this? What good does it do to lie about the evidence and put BS like this out, if not to hide the real truth that the DNA was crap to begin with?

    What a cluster. Jameson, don't even bother. I'm so sick of your lies.
     
  11. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

  12. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I'm having a hard time reading these two documents. Are those exhibit numbers the three markers? I didn't have a very good opinion of the Ramsey team before today because they twisted everything so much. There is zero credibility where there are lies. We were told by the RST that the fingernail DNA and the panty DNA were a match. It was a bold-faced lie. Three, or four, markers cannot be a "match" to a sample with 10 markers. It is impossible. They might have said, there are three markers in the fingernail DNA that may match three markers in the panty sample, but to twist it to mean the two sample matched is misrepresentation of the evidence.

    They can't be this ignorant, can they? Surely they must understand why these samples can't be matched.

    Nevermind, I'll answer it myself. Yes, they are this ignorant. And, yes, they are blatant liars and manipulators. You don't get to lie to me twice. Once does it for me. The RST has been caught red-handed. What liars.
     
  13. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Furthermore

    Smit has been spinning this alleged "match" between the fingernail DNA and the panty DNA since at least 1999, yet no such match is documented anywhere in official testing results. Furthermore, it is clear that NO match can be made to any known suspect with either DNA sample. Additionally, the fingernail DNA has long been considered so degraded and/or contaminated that the possibility of matching it to any other DNA sample from the crime scene or any person is virtually impossible.

    ***

    http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/saga_6.html?sect=21

    On October 10, 1999 the members of District Attorney Alex Hunter's prosecution team met with well known criminalist Dr. Henry Lee to discuss the forensic testing that had been conducted during the Ramsey case. The tests, which were conducted by the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, were based on samples that were taken from JonBenet's fingernail scrapings, blood from her panties and hair samples. Some of these are said to contain traces of the victim's blood and other DNA evidence that could possibly provide a link to the killer. So far, tests on the Ramsey family and other police suspects have failed to provide a match. The mystery of the DNA sample is the fact that it can't be proven to be connected to the murder or to the perpetrator responsible. Dr Lee, who became known for his work on the O.J. Simpson case, had been Hunter's forensic adviser since the beginning of the investigation.

    ***

    http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0304news1.shtml

    JonBenet, who was found beaten and strangled in her parents' basement Dec. 26, 1996, had a mixed biological stain in the underwear she was wearing when she was killed. One component was the child's blood, but the second has not been revealed and has not been matched to anyone in the case through DNA analysis.

    Also, DNA found under a fingernail has not been linked to anyone.

    ***

    www.dnaresource.com/01-02 Summary2004.pdf

    1. “DNA Found on JonBenet Tested.†Newsday (New York), December 31, 2003. A male DNA sample that was found on JonBenet Ramsey’s underwear was submitted recently to an FBI database. There was no immediate match on the national database. DNA test results in 1997 and 1999 were not of high-enough quality to submit to the database, but a new DNA profile was worked up and submitted last month. The male DNA is said to be unrelated to the Ramsey family and was found intermingled with JonBenet's blood in her underwear.

    ***

    Rocky Mountain News

    DNA may not help Ramsey inquiry
    Samples found on JonBenet's clothing may be from factory

    November 19, 2002

    Excerpt: "Wood also pointed out that unidentified DNA was also recovered from beneath JonBenet's fingernails on both hands. But investigators have long said that contamination problems render those samples of little value."
     
  14. Ginja

    Ginja Member

    DNA questions

    My question is, who or where are these latest DNA tests being done? And who is driving those tests? IOW, the BPD had the initial testing done back in '97 and '99. There wasn't enough substantial material at the time to get anywhere; but now with advances in the technology, I suppose analysts can extract more definition. I remember reading something along these lines a few years back, sort of like "cloning" the sample in the hopes they could "grow" a better sample.

    In 12/03, Keenan had pulled the case, and knowing she's in Wood's back pocket, I'm wondering who did the analysis as well as who funded such analysis. IOW, we know the Ramseys have been "paying" people to get the results they want, e.g., invesitgators, handwriting analysts, poloygraphers, and so on. Did they pay someone to find a few (or grow a few) more new markers?

    On another note, Hudson's post brings to mind the fact that yes, who doesn't recall mame, et al, going on and on about there being male flesh and blood under the nails. Around that same time, I recall the Ramseys going on and on about the dna in the pants AND under the fingernails matched...and then...nothing....until now. I mean, everyone seemed to shut up and there was no mention of the fingernail dna. Did it finally occur to these people that they couldn't make such a statement because there were so few markers, or that the sample was so degraded (something they absolutely wouldn't admit to).

    I'm just flabbergasted that talk on the fingernail dna seemed to cease completely and all the attention was drawn to the panty dna. And now this.

    So where are these latest tests being done and who's paying for it?
     
  15. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Ginj, that's a good question. I believe someone posted a recent article quoting an unidentified person at the Denver crime lab who claimed responsibility for identifying this 10th marker, sufficient to submit to CODIS. Logically, that would mean only the BDA could provide the original sample to the crime lab for further testing, at the expense of Boulder County.

    But that doesn't mean that Lou Smit, Lin Wood and the Ramseys weren't manipulating Keenan to do so. Interesting that this was done only 4 months before John Ramsey announces he's running for office, eh?

    And it's also interesting that the fingernail DNA and the spin about it matching the panty DNA has resurfaced right now at the same time that John Ramsey announces he's running for office.

    Methinks I smell another rat... :nsf:
     
  16. Prairie

    Prairie Member

    Important

    In a 12 marker test, comparing two different DNA samples, if 9 DO NOT MATCH, THEY ARE NOT EVEN CONSIDERED RELATED, LET ALONE THE SAME PERSON. What does it mean if six match? NOTHING!!!!

    Color me stupid, but if the most generic test available (12 marker test versus 25 and 37 marker tests) states that 6 means no relation, I guess 6 would also mean definitely not a match in more extensive tests.

    This is a "doh" moment for someone. I hope it isn't me again.
     
  17. Spade

    Spade Member

    Ginja & DejaNu

    Mary Keenan is no more in LinWad's pocket than she is in my pocket. She has inheirited a FUBAR from Alex and is trying her best (which isn't very good) to make something happen.

    This is not to say that justice will be served by allowing Mary to continue with control of the investigation. As a matter of fact, my opinion is that in the end game, the Boulder DA will be unable to prosecute ANYONE in this case because of the stupidity of Alex's "affidavit" on behalf of Burke.

    IMO the focus of FFJ should be:

    1. Continue to publish the facts
    2. Keep the heat on Owens to appoint a special prosecuter
    3. Help John Ramsey's political opponents to defeat him

    IMO- We can accomplish all 3
     
  18. Prairie

    Prairie Member

    Somebody should also inform Mr. Ramsey that simply identifying 10 dna markers does not mean that there is an "entire profile". That would require 13 markers in the most elementary DNA test done by the FBI.
     
  19. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Number 3 is going to happen. However it will be John Ramsey himself who leads the charge of his own defeat.

    Great agenda Spade. I think it's good advice for all of us at FFJ
     
  20. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Spade, I didn't mean to imply there's any kind of payoff going on between Keenan and the Ramseys. I agree with you that she inherited a nightmare case, but I do believe she's playing AH's old game of dodgeball on it as well. She's already proven her ability to cave in under pressure of civil suit and for that reason alone she's capable of cow towing to the RST.

    She also has a long history of supporting the intruder theory which makes her further culpable in compromising any objective handling of the case.

    Both facts about Keenan, plus AH's ridiculous affidavit, should be sufficient to render the BDA obstructive/biased enough to appoint that special prosecutor.

    Nevertheless, I do agree with your outlined agenda for FFJ. I am willing to help in whatever capacity needed to make it happen!
     
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