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  1. #37

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    JC,

    My last post is very misleading, I typed "the thread I've created called Exposing Jameson at cyberlseuths," when I really meant to type "the thread I'd created called Exposing Jameson at cyberlseuths," Sorry to confuse you, I was going to edit that post but decided to leave it as it was.

    I actually created the thread quite a while ago but removed it when I began posting here, I removed pretty well all of the threads at that time; it was my first real life crime forum experience.

    One day this thread will reappear, for now I'll just rant on seperate threads about the twisted weirdo.

  2. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles
    Hey Elle, my motto is "I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure" ....

    Seriously, the only thing I'm sure about is that this is a truly baffling case and that none of the theories truly add up.

    Personally, I think jameson should take up writing for the tabloids because she has a talent for spinning an entirely different story out of the facts. In fact, the post she made dissecting my post, is off the point anyway. Maybe she intended it to be because she was clearly only looking to be vicious. As usual, she didn't put a link to it so that others could read it in context and I always think she does that deliberately so that people can't see how innaccurate her reporting is.

    I did have a smile at poor Margoo's response though:-

    In fact, I had only just intimated to another that I predicted that Margoo would jump into that thread and add her tuppence worth. She's so predictable. You can always depend on Margoo to post on the BORG threads :-)

    Apart omr that, jameson is very, very wrong on two major points.

    The first one is that I am NOT saying that a familiar-intruder is NOW my best theory. What I said was that it WAS my theory - the best one I could come up with before (my theory has never been RDI, not even for a day). My post explained how I had previously dismissed a stranger-intruder theory, but now I am very interested in Tracey's theory and want to see how it pans out - although I can see flaws in it too. Then again, all of the theories have flaws.

    The second point is that jameson says:-

    I have always stated that I thought that Ramseys behaviour was justly criticised - that it made people think they had something to hide. Their behaviour is what has drawn many people to the case. However, a GREAT poster once said to me that "One doesn't have to like the Ramseys to believe in their innocence" and that is oh so true. Backing the Ramseys in everything they did - errors included is counter-productive. I have always believed in their probable innocence, but I don't condone their behaviour. That has always been my stance.

    It's interesting that jameson & co have spent the past 7 years trying to convince people of the Ramseys' innocence, yet they moan and make snide remarks when people DO believe in their innocence. It brings me back to something I have said in the past, I think jameson is the true BORG. I think she wants people to attack the Ramseys - so that she can attack THEM.

    No doubt about it, Jayelles, it is a baffling case. I agree with you. Jams would fit in to the tabloid mould perfectly. She's very talented at rearranging text to suit herself. As for Margoo, she was probably cloned the same day as Dolly the sheep.

    You're not the only poster to think the perp was a "familiar intruder" quite a few thought in this way. As for Tracey's theory, isn't this stymied by Helgoth's
    DNA not being a match?

    I don't condone the Ramsey behaviour, either, Jayelles, it was atrocious. They certainly went the right way about turning the public against them. Total confusion was the name of the game for me, until Delmar England arrived on the forums. I was intrigued by his analysis of the ransom note and the garrote. Here was a man who took one look at the garrote and knew this was a cover-up. No one else can make this claim! From this evidence alone, he knows, from his expertise in knots from an early age. I wonder why LE will not give him the chance to demonstrate his knowledge (?).

    When you take a good look at the garrote, it's easy to see a child could have made it to pull a wagon, and yet John Ramsey and Lou Smit persist in calling it a complex creation relating to some type of pedophile practise.

    I was also intrigued that Delmar's analysis of the ransom note had nothing to do with the style of writing, but by the content, and step-by-step he took me through it. Amazing! I am very grateful for his patience in helping me to understand another side to the analysis of the ransom note, and answer any questions I had doubts about.

    I don't quite know what Jameson's modus operandi is any more, to be truthful, Jayelles. I can’t understand Why she still kept involved after her betrayal (?). I have always been suspicious of this Jameson/Ramsey relationship. Susan Stine being the first person to tell the Ramseys about Jameson. Next thing we know is the Ramseys receive a letter from Susan Bennett, and then a meeting in Atlanta, in 1997. We all know the fun and games that Susan Stine has played in this case. There's another Susan who should be arrested for "obstruction of Justice." I sincerely hope these two Susan's will be charged in the near future!

    There is no other murder case I know of, where out of the blue, a strange woman appears like Jameson did in this one;even to the point of obstructing justice. I don't think we would see this happen in Scotland, Jayelles (?). If this had happened anywhere in the U.K. the parents would have been hauled to the Police Station in a flash, regardless of their status in the community. The audacity of John Ramsey to ask for extra time to be questioned the next day after the body was found in his own home, was unbelievable! Tomorrow came and along with it, the steel band of lawyers.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  3. #39

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    There was a strange one that came on the scene in the Van Dam case. His name is Douglas Pierce and he is lucky he did not get sued (probably because he had nothing worth suing for ) or find himself in some deep legal problems because of his shenanigans. Actually, he very well could be having some problems, I haven't checked lately.......

    I think the internet has encouraged strange ones and wackos and they love that their activities became public. I've read at other forums that there is a Darlie Routie supporter person like hir, although I don't think they have a website, maybe just a forum at a site like EZ Board or Delphi. And there always were high profile case groupies as well as women contacting murderers and professing their love, sick stuff like that. Without the internet, what presence could hir have had?

    Edited to add, I did check and can't seem to find Douglas Pierce's website. I did find this string of comments on kinderstart:

    http://www.kinderstart.com/comments.php?siteid=37216

  4. #40
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    Default Elle and Sabrina

    Elle

    Tracey names Helgoth PLUS and accomplice. The believe the accomplice murdered JonBenet and then Helgoth. It does sound a bit too convenient, but the theory presented in the documentary is nevertheless compelling.

    I've posted my theory several times before, but this is an update following the documentary.

    I had previously disregarded the starnger-intruder scenario for a familiar-intruder scenario because I reckoned that the killer would have to have been pretty motivated to do the deed in such high risk circumstances and on Christmas Night which is an extra-ordinary night of the year and one which would have carried additional risks. I also think the motives for a lone stranger-intruder are hard to figure out:-

    1) The sexual assault was pretty minimal and I tend to think the motive wasn't primarily sexual

    2) No valuables were taken and her body wasn't removed for ransom - so I think the motive wasn't monetary gain

    3) The body was hidden away (i.e. it wasn't placed in a way that would give the most sickening or maximum shock)

    So I reckoned that the motive was either a hatred for JonBenet or perhaps something to do with the parents. I couldn't believe that anyone who was out to hurt John Ramsey would target an innocent child. Surely, they would try to hurt his business or even his reputation - accusations of sexual abuse perhaps. If someone wanted to ruin John Ramsey, they could have done it without killing an innocent child. So that left a hatred or obsession for JonBenet and/or Patsy. I always figured that Patsy would be more inclined to raise emotions than John who is rather dull in comparison IMO.

    I had two theories which I have outlined but have only posted fully in private because these people have not been charged with anything and I don't go around accusing people of murder. Both theories had the killer as someone known to the Ramseys.

    However, Tracey's documentary has merit because .... I can believe that a PAIR of intruders would be much more likely to commit such a crime. There's a name for it when two people egg each other on to commit crimes that each would not commit on his own. Folie a deux or something like that. One lone intruder wandering about on Christmas Night just didn't feel *right*, but there is a "social" aspect to a pair of them doing it which I can believe in.

    Now, I am not jumping on any bandwagons and saying "Oh yes, this is it - Mr X is da killa". What I AM saying is "Hey, that makes more sense than anything I've heard so far - let's get this guy and test his DNA, he sounds like a great suspect".

    With each theory that I've read, there have been "difficulties" - bits that don't fit or are reaching. There are holes in Tracey's theory too.

    For starters, they have nothing concrete to place Helgoth in the Ramsey home. No DNA, no fingerprints - just the fact that he owned a pair of Hi-Tec boots and the police say they didn't match. An imprint of a Hi-Tec logo is not hard evidence. It's circumstantial evidence only. Many people own Hi-Tec footwear with the LOGO - the police did and possibly even Burke Ramsey. Also, the footprint cannot be dated accurately. So the case against Helgoth is not watertight by any stretch of the imagination.

    Tracey's documentary claimed that a "vital clue" was this video tape of the film "The Santa Claus" which was interrupted part way through by news footage of the Alie Berrelez murder. John San Augustin said that killers often recorded news footage of their activities into ordinary video tapes. The reporter who reviewd the documentary interpreted this as meaning that the killers were responsible for Alie Berrelez' murder too - Tracey denied this in his e-mail to jameson. Why is it therefore a vital clue and what did John San Augustin really mean if not the obvious interpretation? How many people own the video "The Santa Claus"? What IS the relevance of the news footage of Alie Berrelez' murder if, as Tracey says "What other murdered girl?" and went on to accuse me of having a genetic predisposition to getting it wrong? LOL Maybe Tracey himself didn't understand the significance of San Augustin's comments.

    Then there is the problem of John Kenady being the source for some of the "evidence" against Helgoth. Kenady did break into the Helgoth home to obtain the boots and video tapes, but he also took a large personal cheque belonging to Helgoth's father which had nothing to do with the Ramsey case and kind of suggests that kenady's motives were confused. We also only have Kenady's word for Helgoth saying that he was going to do a job with a friend that would net them each $50-60K and then being depressed after Christmas when the deal never paid off. That sounds mightily to me as though IF Helgoth and Mr X killed JonBenet, then the motive was kidnapping all along. So let's think about if we are planning a kidnapping. What do we need?

    somewhere to keep the victim
    means of concealing the victim in order to get him/her to the holding place
    ransom note

    What were Helgoth and X's plans for the above? If they wrote a lengthy ransom note in the Ramsey home and with ramsey materials, it doesn't sound as though they came well prepared. Where were they going to keep her?

    The how did they plan to get her to the holding place? They'd need to get her through the streets of Boulder - two men dressed as Ninjas carrying a sack or a case? Kind of noticeable. So maybe they had a vehicle. Where then was it parked. By all reckoning, they must have been in the Ramsey home for some time - hours. So did no-one notice a strange vehicle parked for hours nearby?

    Then there is the link with the assault on the 14 year old. Investigators believe it was Mr X who did that (Helgoth was dead by then). Yet if Tracey used authentic documentation in his documentary for Mr X, he was 46 at the time of that assault and the 14 year old's mother described the intruder as being in his 20s.

    So there are flaws in the Tracey theory - but IMO, it is still compelling and I would very much like to see Mr X caught and tested. He and Helgoth both dressed in black - as Ninjas. Black fibres were found in JonBenet's underwear. Mr X bred wolf dogs. Helgoth had bought two pups from him. The animal hairs found in JonBenet's hands were two different colours and a claim was made on the documentary that they matched the colour of the dogs exactly. Unfortunately, it wasn't stated how they knew they matched exactly. I fact, I have a problem with "colour matched exactly" since experts tend to use the words "consistent with". I feel that if mtDNA testing was done on the hairs, then Tracey woud have used that as a stronger fact to forward his theory.

    Mr X appears to have been a "Menace" to those who knew him. He threatened to cut a woman's ear off and he tried to murder his own wife when they'd only been married 5/6 days (according to Kenady). He has convictions for assault and drugs. Some druggie hard-man types stated on the documentary that they were afraid of Mr X.

    Helgoth went around shooting off his guns at people - missing them by fractions of an inch. Kenady says he doesn't believe Kenady would have worried about muffling the gun if he'd been going to shoot himself. I think that's a valid point.

    "The Menace" will be named eventually I'm sure.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  5. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustinCase
    JC,

    My last post is very misleading, I typed "the thread I've created called Exposing Jameson at cyberlseuths," when I really meant to type "the thread I'd created called Exposing Jameson at cyberlseuths," Sorry to confuse you, I was going to edit that post but decided to leave it as it was.

    I actually created the thread quite a while ago but removed it when I began posting here, I removed pretty well all of the threads at that time; it was my first real life crime forum experience.

    One day this thread will reappear, for now I'll just rant on seperate threads about the twisted weirdo.
    In that case, JustinCase, I can hardly wait for your old thread to reappear! My first real life crime forum experience is from a sub-forum at jamesons.

    Elle 1, should this happen, I won't be surprised: "There's another Susan who should be arrested for 'obstruction of Justice.' I sincerely hope these two Susan's will be charged in the near future!"

  6. #42
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    Speaking of Sue Swamp, take a lesson, anyone who is thinking of registering on her swamp forum or who is already registered there. Misty is very sick right now; in fact, she is fighting for her life with a diagnosis of pancreatic cancer - a perfect time for Susan jameson Bennett to go into full vindictive attack mode against her. Bennett claims not to reveal the information she gets from her posters when they register for her forum; yet, time and time again she has revealed Misty's name and personal information, the last time just yesterday.

    Bennett does NOT keep her word, and she will use your personal information against you, contrary to her promises not to.

    It's not the first time Susan jameson Bennett has attacked a cancer victim. Remember Panico?
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  7. #43
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Watching You
    It's not the first time Susan jameson Bennett has attacked a cancer victim. Remember Panico?
    What else should/would one expect from someone who sells out "friends" to the tabloids?

    Praying for Misty.
    Never let the children, Elders, the sick, or the infirm be exploited.


    "I love everything that's old: old friends, old times, old manners, old books, old wines." Oliver Goldsmith


    Let's bring all our missing and military home safely!


    All of my thoughts written here are my constitutionally protected opinion.

    I reject any form of government in which the opinion of the village idiot is given the same weight as the opinion of Aristotle. (author unknown)

    ©

  8. #44
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    I suspect Susan Bennett has sold a lot more to the tabloids than just the NE interviews, JR. I've always thought the soul-less wingnut was profiting off JBR's death one way or another.
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  9. #45
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    Exclamation

    I have no doubt you are 100% correct WY. The mere fact that hir was/is charging hir forum members tells me hir was making a profit all along. Then look what hir did to the Van Dam family members - among other things.
    Never let the children, Elders, the sick, or the infirm be exploited.


    "I love everything that's old: old friends, old times, old manners, old books, old wines." Oliver Goldsmith


    Let's bring all our missing and military home safely!


    All of my thoughts written here are my constitutionally protected opinion.

    I reject any form of government in which the opinion of the village idiot is given the same weight as the opinion of Aristotle. (author unknown)

    ©

  10. #46
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    Default Patricia Letters

    jameson has started a thread to deny (once again) that she wrote the Patricia Letters. She refers to the analysis done by Misty and Delmar England. This is the thread where she posts Misty's real name - something which she knows upsets Misty and which was undoubtedly therefore done with malice - an appalling act given that she must surely be aware of Misty's recent diagnosis with pancreatic cancer. jameson tries to justify her posting of Misty's personal information by saying that Misty's name and place of work were already on the Internet. That is true, but nobody knew that this perso was Misty until jameson made the connection. jameson KNEW it was Misty because Misty had joined her forum and trusted her with her personal information. Most of us have personal information on the Internet, whether it be on work pages or telephone directory pages. Does that mean it is OK for others to join the dots and tell the world that the hat "Fred" is really XXXXX from XXXXX (and here's the phone number in case any crazies want to stalk/harass/intimidate this person).

    In response to jameson's post denying that she wrote the Patricia letters, Margoo (typically) responded with this:-

    Given their poor sleuthing record in every regard to date, I don't doubt that whoever "Patricia" was is still unknown. Ganging up on Jameson is part of their game and naming her as the author of those letters is just another example of their inept stoopidity.
    I find this quite spectacular coming from the forum that supported David Westerfield - stated that there was no evidence to convict him. What stance did Margoo take in the Westerfield trial BTW? We'll never know for sure because the hat Margoo only appeared shortly after the Westerfield trial - around the time that several other hats (Westerfield supporting) disappeared - like KitKat and Joyce for example. Are we to believe that these posters simply gave up on the Ramsey case after the Westerfield trial? Or could it be that they were proven so spectacularly inept in their ability to interpret evidence, that they changed their hats to distance themselves from their proven-to-be inept hats?

    In fact, jameson's forum is a joke just now. Only FOUR of her top ten threads are case related. No fewer than FIVE are devoted to BORG.

    Quite predictably, a certain poster has jumped in to contribute to the BORG thread where jameson posted her dissection/attack on my post about Tracey's documentary. This poster had practically disappeared from the forums in recent months, but obviously couldn't resist adding her tuppence worth to a BORG thread where my hat was mentioned. Her post amounted to little more than some name calling and a personal attack.

    I wonder if the Ramseys are proud of the high-calibre supporters they attract?
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  11. #47
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    Susan jameson Bennett is a control freak. She has a need to control everything and everyone around her. With that in mind, take note of the posters at her forum - those, at least, who are not one of her hats. Bennett cannot control most posters, which is the reason the swamp is the joke of the Internet with about five posters and 15 different hats belonging to hir. One has to be really stupid to be controlled by a petty, vindictive creep like Susan Bennett.

    I have quit reading there, because she has nothing to offer except criticism of posters on other forums, and that bores me to death. The only reason I knew about her post attacking Misty is because someone sent it to me in an e-mail.
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles
    Elle

    Tracey names Helgoth PLUS and accomplice. The believe the accomplice murdered JonBenet and then Helgoth. It does sound a bit too convenient, but the theory presented in the documentary is nevertheless compelling.

    Jayelles,

    I did read about another accomplice supposedly being with Michael Helgoth, but not having seen the video you have just seen, I’m at a disadvantage, plus I was away for quite a spell, BUT I cannot backtrack and hop up on the fence one more time. I prefer to concentrate on the evidence at the scene of the crime instead of being led down several paths chasing invisible ghosts. I’m sticking with the evidence which is visible and was found in the Ramsey home.

    The murder was committed in the Ramsey home. All the evidence leads back to the Ramseys. It has all been listed over and over again. No need to bore anyone here with another list.

    Evidence removed from the Ramsey’s by sister Pam Paugh wearing the famous Boulder police jacket. ( Items UNLISTED) with the policewoman driver being told not to worry about it when she asked if everything was being noted (?)

    Patsy Ramsey told the police on 26 December she had put on a red top on JonBenét. A red top/jumpsuit was found balled up on JB’s bathroom counter/laundry counter, and JonBenét is found dead wearing the white top with a sequined star she wore to the White’s party. I don’t see Michael Helgoth involved in this part at all. I don’t see two criminals being finicky and attending details like this, including washing her body down. This is a mother connection, in the same vein as “not taking JonBenét’s body away from the house and leaving her outside in the cold.”

    So … you see, Jayelles why I cannot hop back up on the fence again (?). I’m too attached to the familiarity of the evidence present on the morning of the 26 December. The Ramseys are happy when Crockumentaries are made, sidetracking everyone from the evidence which was at the scene of the actual crime. jmo, of course!

    Strange this documentary of Michael Tracey’s came out in the U.K. just when John Ramsey decided to run for a Seat in the State Legislature in Michigan (?).
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.



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