For your consideration - "I came, I had come back down the back bedroom stairs ...."

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Texan, Jun 21, 2004.

  1. Texan

    Texan FFJ Senior Member

    I'm afraid someone has already noticed this and it's probably been discussed but I've been reading "JonBenet - the Police Files" again and found an interesting snippet that indicates to me that Patsy had been downstairs earlier and was actually coming back downstairs later when she claimed she found the ransom note. See what you think this means-

    From page 62 when Patsy is responding to a request to give a minute-by-minute account of her discovery.

    PR: ....And I remember the ironing board was up, I think, and I fussed around with this little red jumpsuit of JonBenet's 'cause it had, had some spots on it and I was going to remember to do something with that when I got back and, uh, so I had the light on in there in the laundry room area and, uh, um, then I started down the spiral staircase there. I came, I had come back down the back bedroom stairs.....
    TT: Okay.

    PR: ....from my bathroom. Um, I started down the spiral stairs.......

    She had already talked about coming down from her bathroom, she is at the laundry area and then starts down the spiral stairs and slips by saying she had come back down (indicative of already being downstairs and now coming back down) and to my way of thinking quickly converts that to coming down the back stairs from her bathroom which she had already related. That seems like a tidy way of covering up using the words "back down"
    :lier:
     
  2. LurkerXIV

    LurkerXIV Moderator

    Patsy

    Patsy is the Queen of Liars. She has been caught in a thousand falsehoods. No wonder she didn't want to take an FBI-administered lie detector test! :shutup:
     
  3. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    The coffee

    Texan, you are ringing some bells in my hear. Where was it that Patsy described going downstairs to put coffee on? There was a discussion somewhere about coffee.

    Did she go down and put on some coffee and then go back upstairs?

    I can't think where I got that idea from.
     
  4. ilovemine

    ilovemine Member

    This is what I found from the Bonita Papers:

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4502&highlight=coffee

    In the official statement given to the Boulder Police, John said he awoke at approximately 5:30 a.m. and went into the bathroom to take a shower. Patsy got out of bed shortly after him, put on the clothes she had worn to the Whites' dinner party the night before, fixed her hair and applied her make up. She headed down the stairs from their third-floor bedroom to start coffee brewing and fix a light breakfast. She still had last minute packing for the trip to the families summer home in Michigan. The private
    jet was scheduled to leave Jefferson County Airport at 7:00 a.m.
    and the airport was about a 30 minute drive from the Ramsey’s home. As she came down the back spiral stairs leading from the bedrooms, she noticed papers lying on one of the landings. She turned at the bottom of the stairs and started to read the hand written letter as it still lay on the stairwell:
    *snip

    That may or may not be what you were thinking of. By the way, I'm new here!! FFJ ROCKS :hiya:
     
  5. Nikeo

    Nikeo Member

    Patsy's timeline

    I have been reading PMPT and what I don't understand is how Patsy was able to put makeup on and comb her hair in 17 minutes. I thought it was a mistake on the part of the writer, no way could a women get up at 5:30, be fully dressed and made up at 5:52 when the 911 call was made. I wanted to see what Patsy had to say about her timeline in DOI, in her timeline she got up at 5:35 - that means she got dressed and made up in 12 minutes! I then read ST's book and he gave the same timeline as PMPT.

    With Patsy's own writing, she has managed to get dressed and put makeup on in 12 minutes.

    I don't know about any of you, but I can barely get my face washed and teeth brushed in 12 minutes, much less my hair and makeup done and I pull my hair back in a simple chignon, no having to curl and brush into place.

    I have been a fence sitter for a long time, but re reading PMPT is making me slowly slide off that fence.

    Another descrepency I found was that Nedra told Steve Thomas that JonBenet was reading at age three. In DOI, John states that big brother Burke had to read the names on the gifts that Christmas morning. So which is it, was she 3 and reading or 6 and not reading?

    Tonight I am going to read the three books side by side, one chapter for each, each night. Reading PMPT has really been eye opening for me. I have really, really tried to give the Ramsey's the benefit of the doubt, but it is getting harder and harder. What keeps me kinda on the fence is the brutality of her death, I still can't deal with a parent that would garrote a child. Even John Douglas in all his years of child homicides has never seen this done.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2004
  6. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    John Douglas and others who defend the Ramseys like to play a game involving that claim, "No parent has garroted a child." This is only true if one insists on invoking the concept of the garrote, a ligature with two handles, one each at the ends of the cord or wire. It is true. No parent has used a ligature with handles to strangle a child. By the same token, this ligature only has one handle, and so it is not a garrote. Also, parents have often strangled their children with ligatures. I can give you examples by name and date of parents who have wrapped material around their children's necks and strangled them. Sometimes it is a telephone cord, sometimes it is a bathrobe belt, sometimes a pants belt, sometimes it is an item of clothing like a shirt or coat. Nobody dares confront John Douglas or any other Ramsey defender and make them admit, "We have proof that parents have used cord to strangle a child," because they would be embarrassed to admit it has happened.
     
  7. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Cutter

    Cutter once posted images outlining where he thought there was a spiral type marking on JonBenet's neck - which he thought would match up with telephone cord.

    It was quite comnpelling, but I can't find it now.
     
  8. Nikeo

    Nikeo Member

  9. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Jayelles,

    Patsy mentions making coffee in the CNN interview they did on Jan.1, 1997.

    CABELL: Mrs. Ramsey -- you found the note. Was it a handwritten note, three pages?

    RAMSEY, P: "I didn't -- I couldn't read the whole thing I -- I just gotten up. We were on our -- it was the day after Christmas, and we were going to go visiting, and it was quite early in the morning, and I had got dressed and was on my way to the kitchen to make some coffee, and we have a back staircase from the bedroom areas, and I always come down that staircase, and I am usually the first one down. And the note was lying across the -- three pages -- across the run of one of the stair treads, and it was kind of dimly lit."

    She lied, "we were going to go visiting," they were actually on their way to their second home in Charlevoix, Michigan, for whatever reason the Ramseys chose not to mention their trip and instead decided to simply say they were 'going visiting' this would lead one to believe they were not leaving the state that day; why would they want to hide this?

    Just one more thing I want to mention -- True to Ramsey response form, she didn't answer either of Brian's questions, which were:

    1. "Was it a handwritten note?"
    2. "..three pages?"

    She offered a long winded response about something else, why?
     
  10. Little

    Little Member

    some of the morning's timeline

    The differing accounts of time comings and goings by themselves might seem insignificant. And if this were the only gray area they might well be.

    The amount of activity that took place between the time the alarm clock went off and the 911 call is a bit more difficult to reconcile.

    At 5:30 a.m. John gets in the shower. - Patsy gets up while John is in the shower. - The 911 call came in at 5:52 a.m.

    This gives Patsy approximately 20 minutes to put on her makeup, dress, go down one floor to the area of JonBenet’s room, go to the top of the spiral staircase then decide to go to the laundry area, pack a few things for the Michigan trip, wash a soiled jumpsuit of JonBenet’s. And in their own book Patsy says the she also shoved some clothes in plastic garbage bad.

    Now this is what you might refer to as part of my obsession. When I get up in the morning I do the usual morning stuff (you know what I mean!). Brush my teeth, wash my face, put on very little makeup (moisturizer, foundation, a little blush and a little mascara) – I don’t have a beauty queen reputation to uphold. Anyway, that takes about 10-15 minutes total. And that’s assuming I have laid out the clothes I’m going to wear to work. Now, assuming I had a third floor and came down to the second floor, washed out an outfit, did some packing, stuffed some clothes in a garbage bag, I feel sure that would take me all of the last 5 minutes plus a little more. I have timed myself! Yes, that’s how obsessed I am and I admit it – there, it’s out in the open and I’m glad! And that does not include going through the motions of washing, packing and stuffing.

    Here comes a discrepancy. According to Steve Thomas’ book she told French that at 5:45 (13-15 minutes after she gets out of bed and does all the other preparations) that she went into JonBenet’s room to awaken her, discovered she was not in her bed, went down the spiral stairs and discovered a note. In DOI there is no mention of going into JonBenet’s room. In PMPT it is said that she told French that after washing out the jumpsuit she went down the stairs and discovered the note.

    According to their book (DOI) she initially thought it was from their cleaning lady to remind her of a loan Patsy had promised her. Realizes this is a ransom note, rushes upstairs to discover that JonBenet is missing, and calls out for John. They check Burke’s room and discover he is asleep, decide to let him sleep, go back down the spiral staircase, John spreads the note out on the floor and as he is reading it the decision in made to call the police.

    Let’s..review………: 05:30am the alarm goes off and John Ramsey jumps in shower (DOIpg10)

    Patsy Ramsey gets up while John Ramsey is in the shower (DOIpg10)

    Patsy Ramsey thinks, "take a shower, get dressed, get going" (DOIpg10)

    Patsy Ramsey remembers that her shower is still broken (DOI pg 10)

    Patsy Ramsey skips shower, puts on makeup and previous night’s outfit (DOIpg10)

    Patsy Ramsey goes down back stairs to second floor by JonBenet's room.(DOIpg10)

    Patsy Ramsey stopped at top of spiral stairs then turned to laundry area(DOIpg10)

    Patsy Ramsey decides to pack some things for the trip to Michigan (DOIpg10)

    Patsy Ramsey told French she washed soiled jumpsuit of JonBenet's (PMPTpg59)

    Patsy Ramsey told French she did not check JonBenet's room (PMPTpg59)

    Patsy Ramsey told French at 5:45am she went to wake JonBenet up (STpg18)

    Patsy Ramsey told French JonBenet was not in her bed when she checked(STpg18)

    Patsy Ramsey told French she went down spiral stairs and found the note(STpg18)

    Patsy Ramsey told French after washing jumpsuit she went down stairs(PMPTpg59)

    Patsy Ramsey shoves clothes from laundry into plastic garbage sack (DOIpg10)

    Patsy Ramsey hurries down spiral stairs to bottom floor and stops (DOIpg10)

    Patsy Ramsey turns around to look at 3 pieces of paper on the step (DOIpg11)

    Patsy Ramsey thinks note is from cleaning lady about loan reminder (DOIpg11)

    Patsy Ramsey realizes the 3 pages are a ransom note for JonBenet (DOIpg11)

    Patsy Ramsey races upstairs and pushes JonBenet's door wide open (DOIpg11)

    Patsy Ramsey finds JonBenet missing from her bed, screams for John(DOIpg11)

    John Ramsey meets Patsy wearing only his underwear (DOI pg 11) Patsy

    Ramsey yells "There's a note downstairs!" "JonBenet's gone!" (DOIpg11)

    Officer French’s reports from what he was told the morning of the 26’th vary from what the Ramsey’s report in their book Death Of Innocence.

    For example, in the later interviews with John and Patsy they vehemently (almost too much so) assert that JonBenet was sound asleep, or in Patsy’s words she was “zonked†(NE book) and “Very sound asleep that night†(pg139 NE) However, due to the short expanse of time between Christmas night and the morning of the 26’th, when you might think eir recall would be more attuned, they said that they “read to her†and “sang to herâ€.
     
  11. "J_R"

    "J_R" Shutter Bug Bee

    I have what has been called my "15 minute stare period," which I think means I am literally asleep on my feet if I am moving at all the first 15 minutes after my alarm goes off. I don't think the same story was repeated twice but Smit's Silly Sit (as I call it) is really what woke me up along with all the assorted discrepancies in statements and the "Susan games."
     
  12. Elle

    Elle Member

    Inconsistencies

    All of the above Inconsistencies and the Ramseys are still walking free! Great sleuthing!

    On 26 December, Patsy Ramsey told the police JonBenét had a red top on, Later she changed this to JB wearing the white top with the sequined star, the one she was found dead in.

    The following statements prove Patsy Ramsey had that red jumpsuit/red top in her hands regardless of the time. Steve Thomas talks about the red top being balled up on the bathroom counter/laundry (?).

    Patsy Ramsey should be arrested!


    Texan:

    PR: ....And I remember the ironing board was up, I think, and I fussed around with this little red jumpsuit of JonBenet's 'cause it had, had some spots on it and I was going to remember to do something with that when I got back and, uh, so I had the light on in there in the laundry room area and, uh, um, then I started down the spiral staircase there. I came, I had come back down the back bedroom stairs.....


    Little:

    Patsy Ramsey told French she washed soiled jumpsuit of JonBenet's (PMPTpg59)
     
  13. Elle

    Elle Member

    Death of Innocence

    In "Death of Innocence" page 10 HB ... Patsy Ramsey doesn't state the time she hears John turning on the water in his bathroom. Goes through her scenario of not taking a shower....got to be at the airport by 6:30 am.

    Yet another different account of Patsy's visit to the laundry

    Minutes later she hurries down the back stairs from their bedroom to the second floor where the children's beds are located. She stops at the spiral stairs, heads for the laundry and quickly shoves some of the laundry into a plastic garbage bag....then she hurries down the spiral staircase and sees the three pieces of paper, and bending over she's thinking it's a reminder from Linda, the cleaning lady.

    Aye right, Patsy! Linda needs three pages to remind you of the money you said you would give her. As if Linda H. Pugh would leave a reminder there (?). More like a kitchen counter.
     
  14. Ginja

    Ginja Member

    None of this happened!

    God, these people are lying through their teeth so bad, MY teeth hurt!

    What you've all done here is great...it shows that none of this happened.

    Since I first heard about this murder almost 8 years ago, I have maintained that (1) JonBenet never went to bed that night; (2) John and Patsy never went to bed that night; and (3) everything they talk about as to what happened that night is nothing but a huge lie...basically.

    I say basically, because I'm sure it didn't take them all night to cover their tracks. So, for example, when Patsy says she washed JonBenet's jumper or threw some clothes in a plastic bag...I believe she did...during the wee hours of the morning, filling up time until it was "time" to call police. Ditto with her putting on her makeup and whatnot...she was already dressed...she never undressed. But I'm sure she freshened her makeup pretty much close to the time she would call police. Ditto for John...he took a shower that night...probably to wash away his guilt and any evidence...but in the wee hours after he and Patsy had finished staging the crime scene.

    The list goes on.

    This is why they're able to stick with their stories of what they did. The inconsistencies show up when one realizes they never could have done all this between 5:30 and 5:52.

    The two spent the night staging a crime scene and then getting rid of anything they could that would lead back to them. They tidied up the place and in some instances, untidy it, for example, pulling out the rope and sticking it in a sack in JAR's room.

    As far as the ransom note goes, they wrote it and then set it aside for when the cops got there. This is why their stories are so screwed up in telling how the note was found or how John was on all fours reading the note, or how Patsy could read upside down in the dark through John's body.

    And it's why they can't come to agreement as to what they did or were doing when the note was found...who screamed for whom or why neither ran to Burke. Consider how, upon finding such a note and finding your daughter missing, your first immediate response is to call your friends to sit with you????? It didn't happen....they found nothing...they wrote the note and they staged the crime scene so they knew exactly what was going on. They called in the friends to put up a wall between themselves (the Ramseys) and the police. It's why Patsy looked at French through splayed fingers -- was he believing her story?

    Numerous posters have, over the years, tried to do all the things the Ramseys say they did, in the timeframe in which the Ramseys set forth. It's impossible.

    Too damn bad the prosecutor's office didn't take the time to run up and down the stairs at the house and see if they could take showers, dress, coif their hair, put on makeup, rinse out a jumper, throw a few things in a bag....all within 22 minutes! Sounds to me like a good starting point to prove their theory the Ramseys are innocent. Hell, Lou Smit went through the window to see if THAT was possible....why hasn't he tried to put dress, apply makeup, coif hair, rinse out clothes, bag clothes, and find a non-existent note in 22 minutes to see if THAT's possible?

    I think we all know the answer!!!
     
  15. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    My routine

    It takes me about 20 minutes for morning oblutions. That includes shower, hair washed, towel-dried, powdered and lotioned and dressed up to my undies. It doesn't include brushing my teeth or putting my make-up on - both of which I do after I have eaten my breakfast. Nor does it include putting on my stockings or outer clothing. So if I were dong it all at a normal pace, I would have to allow half an hour. My hair is still wet mind you. If I were drying my hair it would be 45 minutes...... And I eat a leisurely breakfast ... so now you can see why I rise at 6.15am in order to be out of the house by 7.50!
     
  16. Barbara

    Barbara FFJ Senior Member

    :confused:

    It takes me about 17 minutes just to remember why I'm up in the morning! :winko:
     
  17. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    I don't get up until I've remembered why I have to get up!

    I see this discussion has been replicated to jamesons. Which provides me with an opportunity to say that I LOVE the poster Hudson! He is like the little boy who said "But the Emperor is wearing no clothes...". He asks sensible questions, raises valid points and doesn't blindly accept the Ramseys word as gospel.

    I particularly loved his post about getting ready in the morning. On this matter, Hudson mused that:-

    I like that :) Reminds me of a couple we are friendly with. The husband took a cramp, shot out of bed at 100 mph and knocked himself out cold on the wardrobe door handle. The wife wakened up and wondered what on earth had happened.
     
  18. "J_R"

    "J_R" Shutter Bug Bee

    The earlier I get up the longer it takes me to get ready so if I got up at 6:15 I'd be lucky to be out the door by 9:30 but if I got up at 8:30 I could be out the door between 9 and 9:15 depending on the length of my hair (am I braiding it or going wash and wear?) that includes my 15 minute stare period. If I have decided to "style" my hair add another hour for blow drying and using a straightening iron and then the curling iron. :curses:

    A foot or leg cramp (Charley horse as we call them) will have me out of bed in a millisecond. :D


    Jayelles, please post the thread link at the swamp. Thanks in advance.
     
  19. Elle

    Elle Member

    None of it happened!


    You're so right, Ginja! None of it happened!
     
  20. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

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