Challenging Smit!

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Sylvia, Aug 12, 2004.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia FFJ Senior Member

    As far as I know, he never tried to get in via that basement window while the room was still in its original state. With this I mean right after the murder took place, and when the room hadn’t been cleared of all junk and obstacles. So to me this is not representative, nor has any value, since the scene is altered.

    After I studied al lot of the screen captures from the different shows, it was obvious that the room was completely empty. Even the suitcase under the window wasn’t there when he so “easily†slipped in and that suitcase under the window would surely have formed an obstacle. And although he was trying extremely hard to leave scuffmark on the wall (which was very obviously repainted) the screen captures show he didn’t manage to do so. If you look at the crime scene photo is shows a lot of obstacles underneath that window. And a pretty narrow place where a person coming in though that window could land.

    Also during the so-called break-in performance, it showed clearly that his clothes scrapes definitively against the well. Meaning fibers and other evidence could have been left on that well. Only I never saw or heard that a forensic team, investigated the scene after his al so successful stunts.

    Further more on one show he’s going to great difficulty to lay down in the well, in the other he doesn’t.

    I would like to challenge Smit to perform his stunt of coming in via that window again, only with some alternatives.

    1. I would like to see the room restored as it was right after the murder. Meaning all obstacles, suitcase under window, other junk under window I can’t make out exactly what it is. I believe I also see a Christmas tree standing against the wall, very close to the window, a closed not far from the window. A rack on which a lot is stored, even close to the window.

    2. The window has to be broken in the same why as it was at the time when the murder took place. And there have to be pieces of broken window in the well, as well as on the ground. Plus debris has to be in the well as identical as can be as at the time of the murder.

    3. The whole break-in has to be tape simultaneously from the outside and the inside. To prevent cheating.

    4. If afterwards he does manage to get into the room, I want I forensic team standing by to examine the well, on fibers and trace evidence. And I would want the same forensic team to investigate that cellar for forensic evidence.

    5. I want everything the forensic team find published, including possible injuries obtained while trying.

    6. Last but not least, no member of the RST team or the DA team is allowed to either do the filming, or the forensic investigation.

    So, how about it?
     
  2. Thor

    Thor Active Member

    Great post Syl. I think that sounds like a fair plan. Would love to see that happen. You bring up some very good points that I never would have thought about. Like having things pretty much like they were that night. Personally, I think if anyone stepped on that suitcase (whether going in or leaving thru the window), it would have fallen over. In other words, I don't believe anyone came through that window that night.
     
  3. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    Good thoughts, Sylvia,

    I too remember seeing some of the photos where all the stuff was there. If our intruder came in that way in the middle of the night, in Dec, in the snow, past cobwebs not disturbed to a darkened room full of stuff how did he/she/it make it all around the stuff without disturbing any of it? You make a valid point.

    Am I remembering this correctly....Didn't Fleet White say he moved the suitcase to the position under the window? It had been near the solid wall and he moved it. I can't remember why he said he did unless it was to heft it and see if JBR was hiding in it. Perhaps I'm dreaming about that. But if I'm correct then why in the name of Gertie has all of this time gone by using that suitcase as a possible exit boost for our intruder? Help me out here guys! :yow:
     
  4. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    Don't forget the lone packing peanut....a sure sign of an intruder!
     
  5. Sylvia

    Sylvia FFJ Senior Member

    Thor, I also never thought of it before, though I’d seen parts of the Smit show online. Just a few days ago it hit me, the room was empty.

    Zoomama, up to now the only reference I could find concerning the suitcase is in Steve Thomas’s book, Hardcover page 20:

    When I look at the crime scene photo the suitcase is standing squared up towards the window, and I believe it was days later that White informed the BPD he had moved the suitcase. Therefore believe it this represents the place where White moved the suitcase to. Only it looks like there is a void underneath the window, where the suitcase could fit. As White was on his hands and knees searching for glass while he moved the suitcase, indicates to me he couldn’t have moved it that far. So it might be possible that the suitcase was actually beneath the window, only not squared, but along side the wall.

    But seeing your post I want to add an additional rule:

    7. It has to be dark, while breaking in, so no breaking in during daytime!

    As I also found another entry in Steve Thomas’s book, Hardcover page 37, which says:
    Sorry Smit am adding yet another rule!

    8. The dust, film and debris on the window sill are not allowed to be disturbed.

    Show, okay to satisfy you. One packing peanut allowed in. :D
     
  6. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    Hey Syl, I remember when the packing peanut was a HUGE clue. Yep, probably had degraded DNA all over it.

    It was debated at a certain misguided forum, the packing peanut was left by the intruder, unlike other packing peanuts which are so lightweight the wind blows them everywhere...this was an 'intruder' packing peanut.

    Let's see Smit slither thru the windown well without disturbing soil, spider webs, leaves and the infamous packing peanut!

    RR are you in any danger from Hurricane Charley?
     
  7. JC

    JC Superior Cool Member

    I agree. If an intruder came thru that window that nite, lifted and replaced that iron grate, evidence of presence would be all over it.
     
  8. Ginja

    Ginja Member

    Glass and suitcase

    If White had to move the suitcase to get to the broken glass, then obviously the suitcase was put under the window after the glass had been broken.

    Ramsey admits that he broke the glass months earlier.

    So the real question is: when was the suitcase placed under the window?

    Obviously, if the suitcase was placed under the window prior to the intruder, and the intruder was convenienced by the Ramseys to enter their home, and did so with the window already broken and a suitcase placed as a step, then query whether the intruder was an invited guest!!!!

    Seriously, if the intruder used the suitcase as a step to either enter or exit through the window, doesn't it make sense that the weight of the intruder on the suitcase, which suitcase was on the broken glass, would further break the glass (crushing it) under that suitcase?

    IOW, query why the broken glass was left in pieces large enough for Fleet to handle. Query why that glass wasn't crushed into tiny pieces by the intruder's weight.

    I can hear the Ramsey camp now...the intruder came through the window without the suitcase in place. He only placed it under the window after he'd entered and was going to use it to exit through the window, but changed his mind and went out through the butler's pantry, leaving that door unlocked and opened.

    Even with that, Smit has to explain how the intruder entered through the window and managed to escape by stepping on and crushing into tiny pieces the broken glass left there by Ramsey months ago.

    I think the point here is that no one entered or egressed through that window.

    This is pure Ramsey staging!
     
  9. "J_R"

    "J_R" Shutter Bug Bee

    You are absolutely right Ginja and minute shards of glass would be ground into the bottom (or under side) of the suitcase from where the intruder put pressure on the suitcase, which in turn put pressure on the glass.
     
  10. DocG

    DocG Banned

    As I recall, White said he initially saw the suitcase propped up beneath the window, flush against the wall. He moved it to the position seen in the photo, which is at a diagonal to the wall. John later said the suitcase had no business being there. It was apparently taken from somewhere upstairs.

    I don't think anyone has ever claimed the suitcase was beneath the window when the intruder entered. The thinking is that the suitcase must have been placed there by the "intruder" as a step to make it easier for him to climb out that way.

    Sylvia makes some excellent points. I too would like to see that scene re-enacted with more controls.

    But on its face the idea that an intruder could have come in or gone out via that window is absurd. For one thing the grate wasn't disturbed. For another, there was no disturbance of dust or grime or paint peelings on the window sill or frame. Moreover, the hole in the window has been described as "baseball size." So in order to open the latch, the intruder would have had to reach in through that small hole and unlatch the window without making a larger hole and without cutting himself and leaving blood on the glass. Sylvia, I'd LOVE to see Smit try to re-enact THAT one. A real intruder would simply have kicked in the window pane and THEN reached in to open the latch.

    While there is no reason to believe an intruder went through that window, there is very good reason to believe a phoney breakin was staged at that point. Which would explain the disturbance on the window well, the presence of debris on the floor, etc. It would also explain the suitcase propped up beneath the window to make it LOOK LIKE someone put it there as a step.
     
  11. Sylvia

    Sylvia FFJ Senior Member

    DocG, yes! Right on target with the baseball ball size! :) Remember the bat in the garden? Also I do not think this whole Smitty Show is representative for a possible break-in. In order to do a reconstruction you have to have the exact circumstances as on the moment the crime occurred, if not it is worthless and has no meaning. I also believe the suitcase was propped up against the wall, so would be an obstacle instead of help when entering. If Smit has the guts do in under those circumstance as were on the night of the crime. Not in an empty room in broad daylight!

    Ginja, I agree with you this was part of the staging! No one can convince me this CEO came through that window once because he forgot his keys…..give me a break! And you are right on the glass too. Why was so little glass found on the inside, yet more on the outside?

    So again Smit why not dare to take this challenge?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2004
  12. Elle

    Elle Member

    Sylvia. where were you on the morning of December 26, 1996. We could have done with you taking charge. Sergeant Larry Mason blew it by being too lenient and considerate of Patsy and John Ramsey, who played their cards well in the "Sympathy Department."

    If Mason had been a stronger character, and forced the Ramseys to a police car, and down to the Station,the Ramseys would have never had the chance to go over their testimony and change it so many times, plus rehearse for their next interview with the police, viewing their previous videos given to them on a platter by D.A. Hunter.

    Can you believe it? To quote Steve Thomas, the Ramseys rehearsed their testimony as if they were rehearsing for a play - words to this effect. When did suspects ever receive such "red carpet" treatment?

    Sure didn't help Larry Mason and his Squad any. If anything, it backfired and the Boulder Police became the bad guys. I'm sure there was a new "rule book" written after this caper, and quite rightly so.

    If it were within my power, D.A. Hunter would be doing time for obstruction of justice in the JonBenét case, and preventing Det. Steven Thomas
    from doing his job. Hunter was nothing but a pathetic preening peacock during the JonBenét investigation.
     
  13. JustChillun

    JustChillun Member

    I don't know if any of you guys have ever tried to stand on a suitcase for anything, but it's unstable and pretty immediately tips (for a light person like me), and could easily warp out of shape if it has an aluminum substructure, should a fat or mansized person try to put their weight upon it. Furthermore, the physics of the human body, trying to enter the basement from a high window, and given the alleged placement of the case and the length of a person's legs, as well as the angle of flexion of a person's body entering from either the tummy down, or the buttocks down position, would surely tip over such an unstable item as a suitcase, rather than having it aid in a person's entry (or exit) through such a window. Add to that the lack of limbridity which most adult males have, and you have one guy on his posterior, on a basement floor, or someone who needs a more VIABLE alternative for boosting a climb, or for breaking a drop. Such a commotion would be caused by using a suitcase for a climb, and the tipping over of the same (as the legs entering or leaving a window above would push the case away from the wall in an arc, floorward, given the mechanics of the body and the angle of the window above, coupled with weight distribution).
    It would be a detriment to any intruder to cause such a commotion.
     
  14. Elle

    Elle Member

    "Death of Innocence" page 20

    John Ramsey in his agitated state remembers a day back in the summer when he had left his keys inside and was locked out of the house. He breaks a pane in the basement window, reaches in and releases the latch, so he can climb inside. He jumps up and hurries down to the basement.

    His own words: That entry place needs to be looked at, I tell myself. I move down to the basement hall and find the window. The pane is still broken, and the window is open, with a large old Samsonite suitcase sitting right under it. Odd, I think. This doesn't look right. This suitcase is not normally kept here.

    Where is it normally kept John? Strange this turns out to be a suitcase owned by your son, John Andrew (?).

    Did someone purposely make it look like John Andrew was the culprit?

    Isn't it odd, John Ramsey keeps all this information to himself
    when he returns upstairs? Why wouldn't he pass these important clues on to Detective Arndt?

    This "so called intruder" sure knew her/his way around this house to find all the items needed for the staging.
     
  15. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    Note John didn't mention the 'bugaboo' chair proped up against the door, outside the 'window' room.

    Hmmm...why?
     
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia FFJ Senior Member

    Yes Elle indeed! Why didn't he mention it to any law enforcement agent? Funny thing is he does mention it to Fleet White!
     
  17. Elle

    Elle Member

    Sylvia:
    Show Me:

    We do have quite a long list of "Why's" ... don't we ? . Aggravating!
     
  18. Greenleaf

    Greenleaf FFJ Senior Member

    Skip Thee De-Lou





    Smitty’s in the basement, skip thee de-Lou, Smitty’s in the basement, how do you do
    Skip thee de-Lou, my darling

    Smitty weaves a web, skip thee de-Lou, Smitty weaves a web, skip thee de-Lou
    Smitty weaves a web, all tangled in goo
    Skip thee de-Lou, my darling

    Smitty stuns a piggy, skip thee de-Lou, Smitty stuns a piggy, skip thee de-Lou
    Pork for his supper just won’t do, gotta get some lamb for the Ram zoo
    Skip thee de-Lou, my darling

    Smitty’s in the van with those famous two, saying a prayer known only to a few
    Skip thee de-Lou, my darling

    Sylvia is a sleuth who has gone over every clue, and finds that Smitty can’t skip or chew
    Skip thee de-Lou, my darling

    Glass on the suitcase, from out of the blue, no one knows just what tale is true
    Skip thee de-Lou, my darling

    Gotta find Smitty before he skips to the zoo, to stun the piggy that is brand new
    Skip thee de-Lou, my darling
     
  19. "J_R"

    "J_R" Shutter Bug Bee

    :rotfl:



    :rolling:


    You take the cake Greenie. :laffbig:
     
  20. Thor

    Thor Active Member

    HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA I laughed out loud after reading that Greenie! That is hilarious! All of you know how much I adore & respect Loose Mitts....too funny
     
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