Need your help my friends

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Tricia, Aug 25, 2004.

  1. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Hi all,

    Could use your masterful searching skills right now.

    Has anyone ever heard of the Boulder Police Department attempting to hire Ollie Gray and John San Augustin the day after the murder of JBR and they refused? Any article that even slightly talks about this fact would be appreciated.

    I need any and all articles where Keenan talks about working with the Ramsey private investigators after she took the case away from the Boulder P.D.

    Isn't there a news article where Beckner said the BPD tested the Hi-Tech boots beloning to Helgoth and they did not match the print in the basement?

    I love you all. You are way too cool for words :grouphug:

    Tricia
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2004
  2. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Well, it's BS, Triicia. There hasn't been a hint of such a thing in any of the books or articles that have ever been written about the case; in fact, in ST's book he states the Ramsey investigators were interviewing witnesses hours before the BPD investigators could even get to the witnesses, as in the very next day after the murders. Furthermore, why would the BPD try to recruit a couple of PI's when they had the FBI offer of help as well as offers of help from other PD's? It's not true. The whole crock is false.
     
  3. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    No way in hell Tricia. Get a source for this information--I want to know the name of the person who tried to hire them. I find this an amazing claim, considering the fact that Henry Lee writes that Eller and Koby turned away the FBI and the Sherriff's dept several times in the early days.

    Please get me a name of the person who tried to hire them
     
  4. Ginja

    Ginja Member

    Tricia - From RMN

    JonBenet documentary airs
    CU prof pushes idea that intruder killed 6-year-old in Boulder

    By Charlie Brennan, Rocky Mountain News
    June 15, 2004

    A new documentary on the JonBenet Ramsey case airing today in Great Britain, produced by a University of Colorado journalism professor, advances a theory that JonBenet was killed by an intruder who committed suicide soon afterward.

    The documentary, co-produced by CU's Michael Tracey and titled Who Killed the Pageant Queen?, focuses on Michael Helgoth as a prime suspect in JonBenet's murder. It also suggests he might have been helped in the crime by a second, unidentified person, who is still at large.

    It is not known when, or if, the piece will be aired in this country.

    Helgoth, 26, fatally shot himself in his Boulder residence Feb. 14, 1997, one day after then-Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter said in a televised news conference that investigators were narrowing their list of suspects.

    "We will see that justice is served and that you will pay for what you've done to this beautiful little girl," Hunter said that day.

    Helgoth was brought to authorities' attention by Colorado Springs private investigator Ollie Gray and former El Paso County sheriff's homicide Detective Lou Smit.

    Tracey's one-hour documentary is airing on ITV1, Great Britain's largest commercial network.

    The documentary reports that Helgoth owned a stun gun. Smit, who worked on the case for Hunter, and then later on his own, said he believes a stun gun was used the Christmas night murder in 1996.

    Also, Helgoth had owned a pair of Hi-Tec boots. That is potentially significant because police found a print made by such a shoe near the spot in the basement of the Ramseys' Boulder home where 6-year-old JonBenet's body was found.

    "I think that Helgoth still needs to be investigated," Gray said. "His associates need to be investigated, and I think his death needs to be investigated."

    "We did investigate Helgoth," said Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner. "And all I can tell you is that there was no DNA match.

    "And we looked at a pair of (Helgoth's) boots that had been turned in by the Ramseys' private detectives, and they were compared and didn't match. We didn't have anything further to go on."


    Tracey writes a media criticism column for the Rocky Mountain News. He is currently traveling and could not be reached for comment Monday.
     
  5. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Tricia

    John San Augustin made that claim on the Tracey documentary.
     
  6. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    If you go by this article, San Agustin could not have been hired by the BPD in December of 1996, because San Agustin had not heard about the case yet. Smit was not brought on until March of 1997, hardly by anybody's definition "the day after."

    http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0503/geek_sleuth.asp

    San Agustin and Ollie Gray, partners in a private consulting business, have worked for the 6-year-old's parents since 1999.

    San Agustin said he learned about the case from Lou Smit, a retired El Paso sheriff's detective who has worked for the Ramseys.

    Hearing about the case from Smit, San Agustin began to believe in the couple's innocence.

    The Ramseys asked him to work for them, and San Agustin agreed to work for free, on the condition that if he found anything that incriminated them, he'd take it to Boulder authorities. They agreed.
     
  7. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Bobc, this is taken directly from the documentary.

    ..." So it has also sought the help of private detectives once employed by the Ramseys to hunt the killer. These investigators have been involved from the beginning. Although now unpaid volunteers because of the DA’s limited resources, they are an important part of the new investigation and the are free to talk. They are led by Ollie Gray, one of America’s leading private detectives. He and his partner John San Augustin have worked on some of the nation’s biggest cases. The Boulder police tried to hire them the day after the murder but only to pursue the parents so they declined to help. David Williams, one of Colorado’s leading private detectives was also involved from the first day. Former investigator Jennifer Getty was hired a week later by the parents. They are deeply disturbed by what they have discovered.
     
  8. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Why_Nut, this is why you are adored and loved. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
     
  9. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Ginja, this is what I was looking for.

    Thank you all. I knew you could do it. You are the best.

    Now hang on real tight. It's going to hit the fan soon.
     
  10. Ginja

    Ginja Member

  11. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    IOW, Keenan based her opinion that it was an intruder on her belief that the Ramseys didn't fit the profile of abusive parents rather than on the evidence.

    What a fool.

    Keenan must feel she's not answerable to the people she was elected to serve. She can bring out all her canned excuses about not talking about the case all she wants. The fact is, she has every intention of keeping this case under wraps for as long as she can. Keenan is absolutely the wrong person for that job, but Boulder doesn't seem to care, so nothing will change.
     
  12. ACandyRose

    ACandyRose Super Moderator

    Tricia

    If you go to my web site at www.acandyrose.com (front page) and right above the picture of sketchman you will see a long gray line that is titled, "History: News Article DA Mary Keenan" and that has a drop down link arrow. When you click on the arrow to the right of that gray box, you will see a list of all the newspaper articles listed since Keenan took over and the ones were Smit are mention are noted with his name in the link. Just click on any of the news articles and it will go to that article :)

    This article mentions Ollie Gray:
    http://www.longmontfyi.com/ramsey/storyDetail03.asp?ID=38


    12/26/2003
    DNA submitted in Ramsey case

    By Valerie Singleton
    The Daily Times-Call

    "Ollie Gray, a private investigator hired by the Ramseys in 1999, said his side of the investigation is ongoing, and that the district attorney’s office has not been in touch with him since a special meeting in July.

    “We did provide them with some things that we thought should be of interest,†Gray said. “I’m hoping that they have looked at those things and either disproved or are still looking (at them).â€

    Keenan said Gray and other investigators have been fully cooperative with her office. And while details of the status of the information Gray provided are unavailable, she said the public can rest assured it is now in competent hands."

    ==============================================

    ACandyRose
    www.acandyrose.com
    ================================================
     
  13. Elle

    Elle Member

    Now we know what D.A. Mary Keenan based her decision on, San Augustin's software. How lucky can the Ramseys get? Thank you WN for posting this.


     
  14. Sabrina

    Sabrina Member

    Tricia, I am up to my eyeballs with real life, but check Beckner's depositions. I believe there are some statements in there concerning the boots and Helgoth.

    Also there may be something about Grey in John's depos/statements.
     
  15. LurkerXIV

    LurkerXIV Moderator

    Michael Tracey--Exposed!

    Can't wait to see that headline in the National Enquirer.

    ...although it may make mame a little nostalgic. :p
     
  16. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Give me another day, and I'll see if I can answer all 3 of your questions, Trish.

    04/14/2003

    If Not Patsy Ramsey, who? The unusual suspects

    Excerpt: “Keenan reportedly met with the Ramseys in February and said in her statement Monday that the investigation was “proceeding with the full cooperation of the Ramseys, Detective Lou Smit and the Boulder Police Department.â€â€ [Note the date of this Keenan comment; full cooperation of the BPD? She took the case away from them in 2001!]http://www.longmontfyi.com/ramsey/storyDetail03.asp?ID=26
    >>>>>

    07/08/00

    New video, audio in Ramsey case

    Excerpt: “Lou Smit, the renowned Colorado detective we first told you about two years ago, has always believed an intruder killed JonBenet.

    “I believe the killer did take her out of her bed,†he says.

    Now he’s been re-hired to work on the murder investigation because DA Mary Keenan removed the entire Boulder Police Department from the case and brought in a new investigative team, including Smit.â€
    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3079093/
    <<<<<

    12/26/03

    DNA submitted in Ramsey case

    Excerpt: ““Our investigator, with 28 years of homicide experience, is working on it full time,†Keenan said. “In terms of our expectations, we are making progress.â€

    Ollie Gray, a private investigator hired by the Ramseys in 1999, said his side of the investigation is ongoing, and that the district attorney’s office has not been in touch with him since a special meeting in July.

    “We did provide them with some things that we thought should be of interest,†Gray said. “I’m hoping that they have looked at those things and either disproved or are still looking (at them).â€

    Keenan said Gray and other investigators have been fully cooperative with her office. And while details of the status of the information Gray provided are unavailable, she said the public can rest assured it is now in competent hands.†["Competent hands? Whose? Loose Mitts?]http://www.longmontfyi.com/ramsey/storyDetail03.asp?ID=38
     
  17. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    Still searching, but here's a blast from the past!

    11/14/00 Steve Thomas Chat @ About.com

    Excerpt:

    “jameson: Steve, thanks for taking the question. Since I have only one, this is it - - "Why wasn't Michael Helgoth's room searched when the sheriff's department advised that he may need to be looked at? (after his suicide - when a stun gun and Hi-Tec boots were clearly visible in the photos of his body..."

    stevethomas: Re: photo you mention -- have you seen it? or is it someone "else" who is talking about stun guns and hi-tecs? i agree, if bpd didn't take the opportunity to look at it, even to discount it, it was a missed opportunity. but don't make hay out of something in left field. those inside the case didn't think it was stun gun, based on medical evidence. and the hi-tec boot has inherent chain of custody issues. thanks for the questions, sorry the space allows for only such a short answer. “
     
  18. Elle

    Elle Member



    I would also like to know whose competent hands D.A. Keenan is talking about, Deja (?) - Tom Bennett's? We haven't heard a single cheep from him to give us any hint of which way the wind is blowing in the JonBenét Ramsey case, and the very fact Mary Keenan gave this investigator the job doesn't cheer me up too much. This tune has been playing:violin: for a long long time! Still, John Ramsey is still sitting in the same old seat, and not in the new one he wanted in Michigan. So maybe I'll dance instead (?).. :sponge: .
     
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