Comparison of 'u', 'R' & 'o' in Ramsey campaign signs with Ransom Note

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Cherokee, Aug 28, 2004.

  1. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    During the recent Ramsey campaign for the Michigan State house, Tricia was contacted by a person who suggested comparing the 'u' in the word "Support" from a Ramsey campaign sign, to the 'u' of the Ramsey ransom note.

    Tricia asked me to perform the comparison, and to comment on any findings. I had not seen the campaign sign, so Tricia sent me a copy of it.

    I immediately noticed the 'u' from the campaign sign had no tail. This is unusual, as most people make their 'u' with a tail that helps it stand on the base line.

    The writer of the ransom note also made their 'u' with no tail.

    The campaign sign was painted, and the ransom note was written with a sharpie pen. The sharpie will often leave jagged edges to a letter as the ink is absorbed from the sponge tip. But there was no mistaking the similarity of lowercase 'u' and even one upper case 'u.'

    I have circled all of the 'u's in the ransom note, and then juxtaposed the word "support" from the campaign sign for your comparison.

    Ransom note first page.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 28, 2004
  2. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Ransom note second page.
     

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  3. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Ransom note third page.
     

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  4. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Of course, we do not know who wrote the words "Support Ramsey" on the campaign sign, but it is not a stretch to think Patsy was involved since she is very artistic, a communications major, and an integral part of John's campaign.

    I have been unable to find examples of Patsy's printed handwriting prior to JonBenet's death that include the letter 'u'. Some of her exemplars changed after Christmas 1996, most notably her letter 'a'. Her individual exemplars done as part of the investigation usually show a 'u' with a standing tail.

    However, as part of her handwriting examples given to investigators after JonBenet's death, Patsy had to write a "ransom note." In that note, Patsy switches back and forth between a 'u' with a tail, and a 'u' without a tail.

    I have circled those 'u's without a tail, and placed the word "support" from the campaign sign next to a copy of Patsy's ransom note for your comparison.
     

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  5. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Comparison of the Uppercase Letter 'R' from Patsy, Campaign Sign and Ransom Note

    While doing the comparison of the letter 'u' in the "Support Ramsey" campaign sign with the 'u' of the ransom note, I noticed another similarity ... the uppercase letter 'R.' In addition, the entire word "Ramsey" had noted similarities.

    In the comparison below, on the right hand side, I have placed the "Support Ramsey" campaign sign, the Ramsey campaign logo, and another view of the logo on a banner as seen (from an angle). The first sign is obviously handwritten, but the other two are professionally done. However, the Ramsey logo was obviously originally designed from a script. The handwritten sign very closely matches the logo signs.

    On the left hand side, I have placed the handwritten "Mr. Ramsey" from the ransom note, and underneath that, Patsy's handwritten "Ramsey" from a pageant application PRIOR to JonBenet's death.

    Underneath that exemplar is placed Patsy's "Ramsey" exemplar that was given AFTER JonBenet's death when she changed her lower case 'a's.

    However, Patsy did not change the way she wrote her uppercase 'R'.

    Notice the beginning stroke of Patsy's uppercase 'R' in both examples.. It hangs over the 'R' downstroke with a flourish as if were a little canopy.

    Now look at the ransom note uppercase 'R'. It also has a canopy.

    Both the Ramsey campaign sign, and the Ramsey logo, have an uppercase 'R' with a canopy.

    An over hanging stroke on the uppercase 'R' is not as rare as a lowercase 'u' with no tail, but taken together, the odds are fairly high that the mother (present in the house) of a dead six-year-old, the author of a fake ransom note found (in that house), and the writer of campaign signs for the father (of that dead six-year-old) should ALL have these traits in common.

    And those traits aren't the only ones.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 28, 2004
  6. JC

    JC Superior Cool Member

    Almost incredible, Cherokee!
     
  7. Elle

    Elle Member

    Cherokee,

    Do you know for sure that Patsy was the one who wrote the Ramsey political sign?

    Having taken Calligraphy, the Blue Ramsey sign at the top looks to me as if it was written by someone who knows how to do it. Like Patsy I'm a bit of an artist and was interested in doing my own cards and took Calligraphy. Maybe she did too. I can see what you're saying about the canopy of the R. Impressive!

    I see there's an 'S' missing in the bottom Ramsey logo (?).
     
  8. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    No, Elle, we don't know FOR SURE who did the lettering on the sign.

    However, it is plausible Patsy made the campaign sign given her penchant for artistic communication, and the fact she was very involved with the details of John's campaign.

    In fact, I would venture to guess that Patsy designed the Ramsey campaign logo, and then had a professional advertising/printing company tweak the final result. I've done the same myself for various campaigns of which I've been involved.

    The "missing" 's' of the last campaign sign is because the photo was taken at an angle, and the sign had "waves" in it. The 's' is there, but just not visible.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
  9. Thor

    Thor Active Member

    I can sure see the similarities. If Patsy DID pen those campaign signs, she's either a complete dumbchit or she's getting as arrogant as The Reptile.
     
  10. Elle

    Elle Member

    Thanks Cherokee. Yes, I could see Patsy wanting to be in control of something like the logo for John's campaign; she is an "in charge" person. Takes time to do these comparisons, Cherokee, and there is definitely a similarity in the letters you have chosen. Thank you!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 5, 2012
  11. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Yes, Thor, the similarities are hard to miss ... and there's more than than the 'R' and 'u'. The campaign sign lowercase 'p' has a muddy ductus with pressure as does the 'p' of the ransom note. The lowercase 't' also has stroke pressure with a short, low crossing T-bar on the stem. There similarities in the angle of the lowercase 'e' ... and the list goes on and on.

    Hey, it's almost eight years later ... the Ramseys are hoping no one cares to notice. Unfortunately for them, some of us do.



    IMO
     
  12. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    You're welcome, Elle. :)

    Yes, Patsy is an "in charge" person. Graphologically speaking, it's all over her handwriting. Control, in many different ways, is very important to Patsy. That control extends to how much she lets others know her real self.


    IMO
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
  13. Catfish

    Catfish Member

    Hi Cherokee,

    Hope it's okay if a newbie jumps right in. My first post here, but a long time reader of this forum.

    You wrote "Of course, we do not know who wrote the words "Support Ramsey" on the campaign sign, but it is not a stretch to think Patsy was involved since she is very artistic, a communications major, and an integral part of John's campaign."

    In the book 'Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey,' Cyril Wecht wrote:

    "Judith Phillips, Patsy's banished friend and photographer, had been asked by the police to photograph a poster they had found in remote corner of the Ramseys' basement near the furnace. Judith knew immediately what she was seeing through her viewfinder. With holly leaves around the hand-drawn legend, WELCOME TO THE GREAT NORTHWEST.... Judith recognized Patsy's style of outlining the image she had just painted, as she had with the holly leaves. Kind of a "country French" style, Judith thought."

    The author continues, writing how Judith and an investigative journalist found many similarities between the poster and the letters in the ransom note.

    pages 216 & 217 (pb) 'Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey' by Cyril Wecht
     
  14. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    I'm following the suggestion of Koldkase/Mjenn at Purgatory, and including a comparison of Patsy's lowercase letter 'a'.

    Prior to JonBenet's death, Patsy liked to use the typographical lowercase letter 'a' with a little hood joining the stem over the half circle. After Christmas 1996, Patsy began to switch her lowercase 'a's to a copybook 'a' with no hood.

    The ransom note writer used the typographical 'a' with the hood.

    Patsy's pageant application used the typographical 'a' with the hood.

    Patsy's "ransom note" done for investigators after JonBenet's death used both copybook AND typographical lowercase 'a's. She was making a conscious effort to use the copybook 'a', but the typographical (hooded) also appeared in her "ransom note." Sometimes, Patsy tried to minimise the hood by making the half circle come up to meet it after the hood was already formed, but several times Patsy forgot, and the hood is very apparent.

    I have posted the comparison below, and circled the typographical "hooded" lowercase 'a's.
     

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  15. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Hey Catfish, jump on in. Welcome to posting at FFJ. :)

    I had forgotten about Judith and the "Northwest" poster. Thanks for jogging my memory.

    I'll try to find a copy of it and post a comparison.
     
  16. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    One more comparison of Patsy's lowercase typographical 'a's. In the "London letter" which was written for investigators, Patsy switches between the typographical 'a' with the hood, and the copybook 'a'. In all of Patsy's single word exemplars done for investigators, Patsy uses the copybook 'a' without the hood, but when writing sentences, she uses both forms of the letter 'a' interchangeably.
     

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  17. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    A comparison of Patsy's uppercase letter 'U' with the Ransom Note uppercase letter 'U'. Notice, neither one of them have a tail extending to the baseline. This is quite unusual. I have also added the letter 'u' from the Ramsey campaign sign for comparison.
     

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  18. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    I found a copy of the "Northwest" poster mentioned by Catfish. It is difficult to see some of the lettering clearly in the image, but one detail does stand out ... the lowercase 'y' at the end of the word "Territory." The 'y' is done with a flourish using a well known calligraphy stroke. It is the SAME lowercase 'y' used at the end of the word "Ramsey" in the campaign sign.

    I have posted the comparison below.



    One more thing ... as I have said many times before, it is not the similarity of the letters BY THEMSELVES that is important, it is the TOTALITY of the similar letters, and other factors. Anyone can have a few similar traits in their handwriting, but it is not the traits alone that define authorship. The analysis must be taken as a whole, and other components such as spacing, rhythm, pressure, margins, primary zones, connecting strokes and pastosity are all part of the comparison.

    The odds of Patsy having ALL of these traits in common with the Ransom Note writer ... as she does ... PLUS the same distinctive letter traits are astronomical.
     

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  19. DocG

    DocG Banned

    Confused

    Thanks, Cherokee, for posting all these very interesting documents, comparisons and comments. But I must admit, I'm confused -- and on more than one count. First, why are you bothering with individual letters from a couple posters which MIGHT have been printed by Patsy when you have access to the much richer and more detailed documents you've displayed which are, apparently, KNOWN to be by Patsy?

    Second, I'm not sure what point you're making regarding either the letter "u" or the letter "a." While it's clear that the document purporting to be Patsy's right hand rendition of the note has "u"s without a tail, all the other documents by Patsy that you've displayed have very different "u"s WITH tails. You accuse Patsy of deliberatly avoiding letter "a"s with a hood after the murder, but you then display several examples of Patsy's post-murder printing WITH hooded "a"s. This really surprises me because a big part of Steve Thomas's argument was that Patsy avoided that type of "a" in the samples she provided the investigators. Yet here they are, all over the place. So what's your point? And what on Earth was going on in Thomas's mind?

    Finally, the document labeled Patsy's Right-Hand sample looks nothing at all like any other sampling of Patsy's printing that I've ever seen, including the other samples you show here. You might want to display still another if you have it, a "SAMPLE LETTER," from one of the tabloids beginning "Today is May 20, 1987 . . . " This one strongly resembles Patsy's "London Letter" and also the Pageant Entry form you've displayed. But none of these look remotely like the one labeled "Patsy's Right-Hand Sample." So what gives here? How reliable is the source of that? Does it come from the Police Files book? Could it be her LEFT hand sample? That might make some sense.

    At this point I'm scratching my head.
     
  20. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    First, I am bothering because I was asked to bother.

    As I stated in my first post on this thread ... a case observer brought the 'u' of the campaign poster to Tricia's attention, and asked her to compare it with the way Patsy made her 'u's. Since I am a graphologist, and have analyzed handwriting for many years, Tricia asked me do to the comparison when I had time. I finally had the time. It is not supposed to be earth-shattering news.

    Second, I have already stated my point regarding the letter 'u'.

    My statement was ... it is quite unusual for a person to write the letter 'u' without a tail, yet both the ransom note, and Patsy's handwriting, have examples of the letter 'u' without a tail. That was the point the case observer noticed about the Ramsey campaign sign ... it ALSO had a 'u' without a tail.

    Handwriting analysts know there are people who make 'u's without tails, BUT IT IS NOT COMMON TO DO SO. So it stands out as an identifying factor ... especially when the mother of the dead child WHO WAS IN THE HOUSE AT THE TIME makes the same 'u' as the author of the ransom note.

    It was suggested I show the comparison of the typographical "hooded" 'a' versus the copybook 'a' ... so I did. It was done as a courtesy, and as a matter of interest.

    I have not "accused" Patsy of anything. I merely stated a fact. Patsy did try to avoid making the hooded 'a' in her individual word samples as I've already stated. She used the copybook 'a' instead. This is what Steve Thomas was referring to, and he is right. Yes, in sentence written samples, Patsy used the two different 'a's interchangeably, but in several instances, there was a conscious effort to change the hooded 'a' to the copybook 'a' by making the half circle come up to, and obscure, the hood. This is ALSO what Steve Thomas is referring to.

    The point is ... Patsy used both types of 'a's and both types of 'u's. There are examples of her writing the "hooded" 'a' and the tail-less 'u' both before, and after, JonBenet died ... AND ... those types of letters were used in the Ransom Note. When asked to give specific word samples, and in MOST of Patsy's post Christmas 1996 handwriting (I did not say ALL), she has avoided making the "hooded" 'a' and the tail-less 'u' because they were pointed out as identifying characteristics of the Ransom Note author.

    I will post Patsy's individual word samples below so you can see how she used the copybook 'a' through all of them.

    Finally, the document labeled Patsy's Right Hand sample IS Patsy's right-hand sample as taken from the same source ... the December 3, 2002 National Enquirer. The samples were sold to the Enquirer by Susan Bennett along with transcripts that were eventually published as a book by the Enquirer.

    Please go to www.acandyrose.com and click on "Patsy's Handwriting." That link will take you to http://blabbieville.tripod.com/index.htm

    There you will see all the handwriting samples published in the National Enquirer INCLUDING Patsy's left-hand sample, and the right-hand sample I have posted. There is a difference between Patsy's left-hand and right-hand samples. What I posted is NOT her left-hand sample.

    As a trained graphologist, I see no major difference in any of Patsy's handwriting samples. Her personality comes through in all of them.

    You said, "What gives here?"

    What gives with your attitude? I am not trying to pull a scam on anyone, nor post the wrong samples, nor try to compare apples and oranges from some shady source.

    These examples are linked from ACR's site for everyone to see. I have merely taken the time to circle, and compare, specific letters for visual emphasis, and included the posting of the Ramsey campaign sign as requested.

    DocG, I have purposefully avoided tangling with you here at FFJ as I remember the "baptism by fire" you gave me after my first post at WS. I have not wanted to start the war all over again. I know you are a passionate JDI, and believe Patsy can do no wrong ... and that is your right.

    But I will NOT be accused of posting false information for the nefarious purpose of slandering Patsy Ramsey. I have merely posted HER handwriting for all to see and compare. I have kept my comments, and analysis, to a minimum, believing the handwriting speaks for itself.

    Personally, I would rather get along with you here at FFJ, and have intelligent case discussion. However, if you continue to have an attitude (which I saw displayed towards Sylvia) of condescending disdain for me, and my posts, then I'm afraid courteous debate will be impossible.


    Patsy's individual word samples (where she avoided the hooded 'a') are posted below.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 29, 2004
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