JustinCase's Comparisons of Patsy's Handwriting

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Cherokee, Aug 31, 2004.

  1. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    I am posting on this thread several .jpgs sent to me by JustinCase for posting here at FFJ. They are comparisons she has done of Patsy's handwriting. The commentary she provided with the comparisons is in blue.

    Commentary by JustinCase:
    "In the sample below I've chosen all of the capital R's, P's and B's because they all have identical tops, and notice the gap that's present in almost every one of them (accept the D in sample d, and the B's in samples F and G. In all other cases, the gap at the top is identical to the ones seen in the ransom note samples, especially the R in Mr. Ramsey.

    "With the exception of h--Patsy's Historical samples all were cut and pasted from Patsy's Alphabet, which is found at acandyrose.com

    "h= Aurora's autograph from Patsy at the Support Ramsey rally in May. Even today, that gap is still there."
     

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  2. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Commentary by JustinCase:
    "You'll notice the samples below are numbered, this is only done so that when I overlap and do combinations of overlapping, you know what I've done and you can easily arrive at the same result if you tried it yourself."
     

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  3. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Commentary by JustinCase:
    "This one I gave it's own page because I think it's important, the misspellings in the ransom note have long been thought to have been intentional, part of the staging, to create the impression that the author was uneducated: I believed this until I re-read the pageant application Patsy filled out in 96. She misspells CROWNED by writing CROWED. I know Patsy KNOWS how to spell both of these words, I'm thinking it's more likely that she misspelled it and she didn't know it.

    "I tried to compare this sample but the letters are too scrunched together and jagged looking to get in there and erase all the pixels. Note the tops of the R's and P's contain the gap I pointed out before... And like Steve Thomas mentioned, she's using that a, in her hame and Pam's name, it's faint but visible when you save this to file and open it in Paint. I'd have filled the areas that are only faintly colored but decided against it so I'm not accused of tampering with it.

    "BTW--I typed out what the scribbling says at the bottom, she used Pam Archuletta's name and position and the Boulder County United Way in BOTH parts of the written application, I think Pam took her ot this one too...

    "**I'm pretty sure this is the 1995 Lights of December parade application, disregard the 1996."
     

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  4. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Commentary by JustinCase:
    "Sample #1 is from Patsy's alphabet page,
    Sample #2 is from the pageant application I just sent you. So Patsy was writng her Capital R's and P's like this for more than a year before the murder and the same characteristics still remain today as noted with the "Betsy" sample."
     

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  5. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    The defense I've heard at other forums as to some of the ransom note printing being so similar (sometimes perfectly matched, IMO) to Patsy's writing is that if several people were tested, they would probably find some similarities, as well.

    However, it narrows the field considerably when that someone whose handwriting is so similar lives in the same house where the ransom note was found. What are the odds of that happening? That's just too much of a coincidence for me.
     
  6. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Thanks for posting these Cherokee,

    I've heard this too, WY, and at first I believed it but then I got curious to know exactly how many similarities "some" was, so I looked at it myself for a long time; I tried different ways of comparing, mostly through use of MS Paint, and I found out that there are many more than just 'some' similarities; with Patsy's writing style and with her characteristics.

    She was 40 at the time she wrote the note, and experts agree that the older a person get's, the harder it is for them to disguise their handwriting.

    Too far-fetched for me to believe too, especially not after I saw those gaps and the way the top of her R's B's and P's all have an 'arm' that protrudes quite noticeably. I want to see someone else write like that, I've tried to do it but really suck at drawing in general, so trying to re-trace the path of someones signature or writing is pretty difficult.
     
  7. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Fantastic work JustinCase. Thanks for helping Cherokee.

    In simplifying things I have taken the R from the ransom note and an R from a sample of Patsy's handwriting. Both capitals.

    This is so easy to see. When you look at this I want you to try and find anyone else in your LIFE that makes the "R" with like this. It's the round top with the tail that gets me.

    Patsy's "sample" is on top. The ransom note on the bottom.
     

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  8. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Before anyone screams, "That's the way an "R" is suppose to be written," here is an example of the truly correct way to write a capital "R."

    Thanks to the Handwriting for Kids site.
    http://www.handwritingforkids.com/handwrite/rc.gif

    As you can see, to write an "R" like Patsy and the ransom note writer both would have to have developed their own style. Unless they are the same person :winkaway:
     

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  9. Freebird

    Freebird Active Member

    wow look at the kickstand on both of those R's.
     
  10. Driver

    Driver FFJ Senior Member

    A very interesting thread. My compliments to all who have brought us all of the new interesting threads on the Public Forum.

    Tricia, since you posted the correct cursive R, could you check your source and post what the correct printed R looks like? Most, if not all, of the ransom note was printed, not written in cursive. I think the correct printed capital R looks like the one I just typed from the typewriter. (ie no tail at all), but it might be interesting to show it, too.. Thanks.

    Keep up the good work!
     
  11. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    For some reason I always looked at the "R" as more of a cursive then a print. However you're right Driver. There is a bigger difference in the printed "R" than the cursive "R."
     

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  12. Driver

    Driver FFJ Senior Member

    Exactly, Tricia. But note that Patsy's printed R is very similar to the R in the ransom note.
     
  13. Elle

    Elle Member

    You both make a good team!

    Thank you Cherokee and JIC. You both make a good team!
     
  14. Thor

    Thor Active Member

    This is great seeing these comparisons. I still think both John & Patsy were in on that note somehow. Patsy may have written all or most, but I still think John's handwriting has some similarities.

    Elle, you're right, you've known my position on this case from long ago. I stand by my thoughts. And no, it won't change my friendship with anyone, you or anyone else. I don't know what happened that night, I wasn't there. I respect every person on this forum's opinion as to perps. I have no problem with that at all. It's interesting to here different versions of what happened. The trouble is, I can't find any scenario that fits perfectly!
     
  15. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    Does anyone have the "q" exemplar handy?
     
  16. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

  17. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Very good work Justin!
     
  18. DocG

    DocG Banned

    Unlike so many on this and other forums I've never seen much resemblance between Patsy's printing and that of the note. The overall pattern, stylistically, is for me dramatically different. But JustinCase, I have to hand it to you, you've come up with some impressive comparisons, things I hadn't noticed before. Most of Patsy's capital R's don't look to me much like the one in the note. But that one you've spotted, the first on the first gif and the same one you've isolated for us later, THAT one is a lot like the R in the note for sure. As I mentioned on another thread, Patsy's replication of the note, which I'd never seen before, looks very different to me than any of her other samples. AND, as you demonstrate so well, it also does have some distinct points of similarity with the ransom note, both in detail and also overall style. I'm really puzzled at this point because that particular exemplar looks to me so very different from anything else of hers I've ever seen. But the resemblance to the note is certainly there I have to admit.

    My principal reason for doubting Patsy could have written the note is NOT based on handwriting, however, but on the question of motivation. I can see no reason for her having wanted to write such a note. It simply doesn't make sense for her to try to stage a phoney kidnapping and then call the police with the body still in the house. And it doesn't make sense for her to hand print a patently phoney note and then hand it over to the authorities, knowing full well she'd be requested at some point to submit historic exemplars and other samples of her printing.

    Returning to the question of comparison, I want to remind everyone that I too have made comparisons, with an exemplar from John, and there are some striking similarities there as well. I don't think you can really get very far just by concentrating on one person and looking for similarities, however. If you look long and hard enough you're bound to find them I suppose. What's needed is a control sample, a comparison involving several different people who all use the same basic type of lettering.

    In any case, I do have to say I'm impressed with these comparisons. They are the first involving Patsy's hand that do seem closely related to the note. Still scratching my head over here.
     
  19. Elle

    Elle Member

    Thor,
    It's good you're not too easily persuaded to just go along with someone else's theory. Like you, I have always enjoyed coming across something I have never thought of when reading someone else's post.

    Last night the sentence that jumped off the page for me from Bob's post, and is staying with me was Dr. Lee's statement ... Killers don't stage crime scenes in other peoples' homes. This sent chills through me. Why would a killer even bother to waste time staging a crime he had commited. He doesn't have the time to fuss around the body making sure he has left perfect clues. So stupid!

    I know this has been talked about before, but last night that sentence just hit me like a ton of bricks. Why doesn't the New investigator see this?
     
  20. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Investigators DO see this Elle. But the Ramseys erected a legal wall around themselves early on, and that along with early police mistakes have made this case non- prosecutable. It would take some sort of miracle to overcome everythings that's gone down on this case. And I'm not talking Mame.
     
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