Events On The Night of December 25, 1996

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Catfish, Sep 2, 2004.

  1. Catfish

    Catfish Member

    Events On The Night of December 25th

    The Ramsey's arrived home from the White's Christmas party sometime around 8:30. Burke and JonBenet were both awake when they arrived home. In the living room, John settled down on the floor to help Burke finish assembling the miniture parking garage he'd recieved for Christmas. JonBenet was hungry, so Patsy served her a bowl of fresh pineapple at the breakfast table in the family breakfast room. Then Patsy went to work finishing wrapping Christmas presents to take on the flight next morning to Charlevoix. The wrapped girts were placed on the floor by the back door.

    About ten, John put JonBenet and Burke to bed. After tucking JonBenet in bed, John read to her until she went to sleep. After JonBenet fell asleep, John went upstairs to his and Patsy's third-floor bedroom. John took an over-the-counter sleeping pill, Melatonin, and went to sleep quickly.

    Patsy was still up and finishing prepartions for the flight to Charlevoix. She took a new plastic garbage bag upstairs from the kitchen to pack the kid's clothes in. Patsy also took the Maglite flashlight from the drawer in the cabinet near the bottom of the spiral stairs. She knew the only lighting on in the second floor laundry area came from dimmed sconce lighting along the spiral staircase. She also knew JonBenet's room was only dimly lit. When she took the flashlight from the drawer, she left the drawer open.

    Patsy had recently purchased a new package of pullups for the trip to Michigan. The family would only be in Charlevoix one night and Patsy didn't want to deal with wet sheets or a wet matress before they left, should JonBenet wet the bed. In addition to the plastic bag and flashlight, Patsy also took a paring knife from the kitchen with her upstairs . She planned to use the knife to cut open the plastic wrapping around the new package of pullups. After reaching the second floor, Patsy placed the knife and the still-folded plastic bag on the counter located in the upstairs laundry area.

    Patsy carried the flashlight into JonBenet's dimly lit bedroom. The only light in JonBenet's bedroom came from a little night light shinning through the slightly ajar bathroom door. Using the flashlight to see into the drawers and the closet, Patsy gathered some clothing for JonBenet. Patsy left the folding closet doors open so that the noise of closing them wouldn't awaken JonBenet. However, the sound of Patsy moving about in the bedroom and the movement of the flashlight's beam began to awaken JonBenet.

    Patsy left JonBenet's bedroom and walked to the counter where she had left the plastic garbage bag and knife. She picked up the folded bag and 'whipped' it two or three times to open it. Patsy then placed JonBenet's clothes in the bag and set the bag down.

    Hearing the noise from the plastic bag being whipped open, JonBenet was curious as to what her mother was doing. JonBenet slid out of her bed and walked from her bedroom towards her mother.

    Patsy stood in front of the cabinet containing the package of pullups, her back to JonBenet's bedroom. She opened the cabinet door, and holding the flashlight, she shined the light onto the dark shelf. Patsy started to slide the new package of pullups from the shelf when she heard movement behind her. She knew that she had just left JonBenet asleep in her room. Someone else was in the house and approaching her!

    In a moment of fear and panic, Patsy let go of the package of pullups, quickly spun around and swung the flashlight at the intruder. With super human strength from the adrenaline rushing through her, Patsy swung the flashlight and hit the intruder with tremendous force. And in that terrible instant, JonBenet was fatally hit in the head, cracking her skull.

    JonBenet flew sideways from the force of the blow, crashing into a standing ironing board. JonBenet and the board tumbled to the floor. As she fell, JonBenet landed hard on the metal legs and bottom of the overturning ironing board. A plastic tip on the end of one of the board's legs jammed hard into JonBenet's neck, leaving a bright red mark on her throat. The rough metal tracks' edges on the bottom of the ironing board left scratches on her body.

    In covering up what had actually happened, Patsy tried to think of every detail. Did the flashlight contain evidence that it struck JonBenet? Patsy wiped the flashlight down to remove her fingerprints and possible evidence, even removing the batteries and wiping them off. But had all evidence actually been removed from the Maglite, she wondered? Should she put the flashlight back in the drawer? She realized that if police found the flashlight in the drawer and it contained evidence of the blow to JonBenet, that only a family member could have used it and put it back. Hiding it anywhere else created the same problem, if the police found it and could tie the flashlight to the blow to JonBenet. She decided to leave the flash light out in the open on the kitchen counter so that it could be easily found. She would then deny any knowledge of how it got there.

    However, the ironing board presented a different problem. There would be no plausible explanation if blood or hair evidence were found on it. Patsy wiped it down as best she could and stored it in the closet to the right of the sink, hoping no one would suspect it was somehow involved and check it for clues

    By the time Patsy finished staging the cover up and writing the 'ransom note,' it was nearly 5:30. She heard John's shower running upstairs. Patsy realized she still needed to change her clothes, but if she went to upstairs, John might see her dressed from the night before and know that she'd never been to bed. There was no time to redress. She waited a few minutes after she heard the shower stop, then screamed for John....

    In the panic to coverup the accident, Patsy overlooked evidence of what had actually occurred: A bowl of pinappple was left on the breakfast table. The police found the drawer from which the flashlight was taken was still open. The new package of pullups was hanging half off of the cabinet shelf. The paring knife, taken upstairs to cut open the plastic wrapping on the pullups, was left on the sink counter. All of these items were left just the way they were at the moment of the terrible accident.

    See attachments of enhanced autopsy photos of the mark on JonBenet's neck caused by the tip on the ironing board leg -
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 2, 2004
  2. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    FFJ members and guests please look at the pictures and read Catfish's theory.

    This is the first time I have heard about the ironing board. And if you look at the pictures you can see how Catfish came about the idea of the ironing board.

    Catfish, I know it's not easy coming onto a discussion board with a new thought. I am thrilled that you chose FFJ to do so.

    I would appreciate it if the members could look over Catfish's post and pictures and post your own thoughts.

    BobC, I know you will be nice and loving. Just like you always are. If not then I will beat you to a bloody pulp, again.

    Tricia
     
  3. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    This is an interesting theory; however, why would Patsy have wanted or needed to cover up that kind of accident. In fact, I would think she would have scrambled to call 911 to get help for her daughter. It would be easier to explain that scenario than to finish her off with a cord around her neck and faking a sexual assault (if it was faked). The second part just doesn't jive with the first part - mother accidentally bashes daughter over the head, thinking she was a burglar. Why go to such extremes to cover up an accident when the truth would have been so much easier and more believable?
     
  4. Elle

    Elle Member

    I had just finished reading this, Tricia, and was about to post a reply. It is good that catfish has taken the time to post her thoughts here, and I could see the scene very clearly right up to the point where she hears the sound behind her, but I feel Patsy Ramsey having gone into JonBenét's bedroom for the pullups. knew of the possibility of wakening up JB; therefore I cannot see her reacting defensively because surely the first person she thought it could be, was JonBenét (?); therefore I cannot take this scene beyond that.

    Hypothetically, if this did happen, I would need Delmar's help with the Physics of this situation.
     
  5. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    To me what I find interesting is the pictures of the mark on the neck. If you only look at that you will see it does look exactly like an ironing board leg.

    Now add to that the fact that Haney asked Patsy several times about the ironing board and that raises my hinky meter.

    Has there ever been anything said about that exact mark on JBR's neck?
     
  6. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Let's hush it up, Fisha

    Why would I attack this theory? It sounds like something like this could have EASILY happened. I have always thought that if the truth is ever known about this death, it will have been caused by something simple and mundane. It was staged to look like the opposite of what it really was. I personally lean towards an argument which escalated quickly and violently but who knows. I think Catfish should be congratulated on his/her free thinking in reviewing this evidence. I've always though that nobody's gotten what happened that night quite right.

    Re: Catfish's theory--how would you explain the messed up curtain in JBR's room then? LHP, the Ramseys maid, said the messy currain and desk area were highly unusual. This is what made investigators think the actual incident at least started in the bedroom.
     
  7. Little

    Little Member

    Here are a couple of references to an ironing board near JonBenet's room:

     
  8. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    BobC said, "Let's hush it up, Fisha"

    Hey, that's Trasha to you buddy. LOL
     
  9. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Howabout fishy Trashia?
     
  10. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Queen of all gutter-snipes!
     
  11. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    OMG, my jaw just fell so far, it came unhinged. Queen of all gutter snipes?

    I like it.
     
  12. JC

    JC Superior Cool Member

    It all sounds good to me, really good, but I agree with this from WY: "I would think she would have scrambled to call 911 to get help for her daughter. It would be easier to explain that scenario than to finish her off with a cord around her neck and faking a sexual assault (if it was faked). The second part just doesn't jive with the first part - ."
     
  13. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Nope

    Taco Bell needs to be in there somewhere. Essential.
     
  14. Catfish

    Catfish Member

    What happened to the ironing board?

    Thanks to all of you for considering my theory about that fateful night.

    In the two interviews Patsy had with police, in April 1997 and June 1998, the ironing board figures prominently in her ramblings when recalling the morning of Dec. 26th

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Patsy Ramsey: "Okay, Um, we got up at about 5:30, I think, I think he went to the bathroom and shower. I went to my bathroom. I did not shower that morning and I just put my clothes on and, uh, did my hair and makeup and, uh, and then I started down the stairs. John was still in the bathroom and went, uh, I stopped kind of briefly there in the laundry room area. And I remember the ironing board was up, I think, and I fussed around with this little red jumpsuit of JonBenet's cause it had, had some spots on it and I was going to remember to do something with that when I got back and, uh, so I had, I had the light on in there in the laundry room area and, uh, um, then I started down the spiral staircase there.... 1997 April 30 - Taped Interrogation interview of Patsy Ramsey National Enquirer book, "JonBenet, The Police Files" Page 62-63 (pb)

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    PR: "And then I walked down downstairs... came to the landing... and there was an ironing board... I had a plastic bag... that I had just things to throw, throw in, to take for my trip. And I think I was here for a couple of minutes, just getting some clothes, things." June 23, 1998- Taped Interrogation interview of Patsy Ramsey National Enquirer book, "JonBenet, The Police Files" pages 136, 137 (pb)

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TH: So now we are on the second floor, because you're coming down the stairs?

    PR: Right, I am coming down.... I had the ironing board somewhere here. And I had- I think I had a couple of plastic bags here somewhere.... to take to the lake. June 23, 1998- Taped Interrogation interview of Patsy Ramsey National Enquirer book, "JonBenet, The Police Files" Page 142 (pb)

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tom Haney: "Okay, So we are still at the ironing board and this little red outfit. What do you do with that, how long does that take?

    Patsy Ramsey: "Just, I don't know, just a few minutes. And I don't know, I can't remember what I was doing. I just remember was trying to get this bag ready to go to the lake, I had two suitcases... of the children's things, I was trying to get ready, because when we came back from the lake we were going onto Disney and the Big Red Boat." Taped Interrogation interview of Patsy Ramsey National Enquirer book, "JonBenet, The Police Files" Page 144 (pb)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    The ironing board was mention in both interviews; a remembered fact important enough to be mentioned 4 months and 18 months after JonBenet's death. So, what happened to the ironing board?

    From DOI -

    "Minutes later I hurry down the back stairs from our bedroom to the second floor, where the children's bedrooms are located. I stop at the top of the spiral stairs that lead down to the first floor, and I turn to the laundry area."

    "Need to get a few things together for the trip, I think to myself. Not much, since we've already got clothes and most necessary items at the house in Charlevoix. I quickly shove some of the laundry into a plastic garbage sack that will go on the airplane as-is. John likes us to pack in soft sided bags because it makes loading the plane easier. I hurry down the spiral staircase to the bottom floor and stop." Page 10 - John and Patsy Ramsey book "Death of Innocence" The ironing board is not mentioned in their published version of that morning.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    I've seen a couple of photos of the laundry area on the Internet. There is no ironing board standing in these photos. Has anyone seen a laundry area photo that shows a standing ironing board?

    Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2004
  15. Elle

    Elle Member

    Catfish I am now paying some attention to the red jumpsuit which has cropped up here. Thank you Little for posting this information on Patsy and her erring and umming and stammering about just what she was doing with this little red jumpsuit.

    Thank you Catfish for your above post. Patsy Ramsey told the police on the 26 December in her own home that she put on a red top on JonBenét when she went to bed. Later on having gone over her testimony, courtesy of Alex Hunter, she changed this testimony to JonBenét having worn the same white top she wore to the White's party, with the star sequins; the one she was found dead in.

    Steve Thomas talks about a red jumpsuit being balled up on the counter; which may have been from Patsy rinsing it out because it was soiled. She was covering her tracks by saying she was fussing around with a red top on the ironing board..

    Patsy Ramsey was known to have told Pamela Griffin, she was having problems with JonBenét and her bedwetting; that she wakened JB at midnight every night to make her go to the bathroom.'

    Nedra Paugh made a statement to Steve Thomas that JonBenét would scream bloody murder if she was hauled from her bed. I do believe this may have happened when Patsy woke JonBenét up at midnight; found her in a mess and hauled her out of bed, and if JonBenét screamed bloody murder, Patsy may well have lost it and in a rage threw JonBenét around causing the head injury.

    It's possible JonBenét was roughly thrown into the tub, the red top dragged off her and rinsed out and left on the countertop. JonBenét's hair was in three odd pony tails. I hardly think this was the style of her hair when she went to the White's party. This could be Patsy Ramsey grabbing her hair and twisting it into these three pony tails shoving her into the bath; maybe using a hand held shower head; maybe in her rage hitting her over the head with it. I've posted this theory over the last three years. It seems to me her mother washed her down because of the mess she was in to begin with.

    I just don't think it was a case of JB coming up behind Patsy at all . I go along with Steve Thomas here and feel this was an act of rage.

    If while throwing her around, she may have come into contact with the ironing board (?). Was the iron actually on the board. This is a heavy weapon which could have caused a skull injury (?). The legs of ironing boards can be all different shapes; square and round etc., which could have caused a skull injury.

    I do think that little red jumpsuit plays a part in this somehow, and I have managed to take the scene a bit further.
     
  16. Elle

    Elle Member

    I would need to see a reenactment of how JonBenét's body was thrown into the ironing board and falling into the leg.
     
  17. JustinCase

    JustinCase Member

    Welcome to FFJ Catfish!! :wave:

    I enjoyed reading your theory and would like to say that I thought it was well written and also noticed that it contains many of the lesser known details of the crime and the crimescene; there are a few things missing but it was still very thought provoking. I can tell you've been doing quite a bit of reading...

    You mention the plastic garbage bag that she used to gather the kids clothes, I was just wondering if you were referring to the clear plastic garbage bag that can be seen sitting at the foot of the spiral staircase in the police photos? I've zoomed in on it and tried everything to make the picture a little clearer after all the resizing and balancing; I can only see a mass of what appears to be a blue material or blanket or towel...

    I'm curious because I remember Patsy saying she put some clothing into a plastic bag, but I can also remember Patsy saying they didn't need to pack very much because they had everything they needed in Michigan. I just wonder why she feels the need to explain the placement of that plastic bag, and further if it contained the origin the the blue fibers found on JonBenet's body. I thought it could be the towel that they dried her body off with after she was wiped down or cleaned, or it could be something that was used to actually clean her with.
     
  18. Catfish

    Catfish Member

    Hi Elle,

    Thank you for your well-thought through post. I am a newbie to the study of this case and appreciate your taking the time to repost your theory for me. I am familiar with Patsy's different versions of how JonBenet was dressed when she was put to bed....... still not sure what I make of that.

    What I've tried to develop is a theory that fits the information I've read. For example, I've read various theories that propose that the damage to JonBenet's skull was caused by a baseball bat, golf club, edge of the tub, edge of a sink, or the Maglite.

    However, if JonBenet was injured by anything other than the flashlight, I'm at a loss to understand why the Maglite was on the kitchen counter, cleaned of fingerprints. In other words, if JonBenet was hit by a baseball bat or a flexible shower head, for example, I don't understand any need to wipe down the flashlight.

    I am not locked into the theory that I began this thread with. I presented my efforts to date and look forward to you and other knowledgable members here educating me on this tragic case. It seems that most of the members here, including myself, agree on the crime being staged and the ransom note was written by a family member. Like you, my focus is to try and understand what happened prior to the staging.

    In my post above, I quote Patsy several times vaguely rambling about a standing ironing board in the laundry area just outside JonBenet's bedroom. This is where I believe the fatal blow was delivered using the Maglite. My theory includes JonBenet crashing into the board and a tip on the leg of the board jamming into her neck, leaving the red mark on her throat.

    This theory is very easy to disprove. All it takes to prove me wrong is a crime scene photo showing a standing ironing board in the laundry area. Patsy's repeated statements puts an ironing board there, so it should have been there when the laundry area was photographed.

    If such a photo exists and proves that my theory is wrong, then I need to dig deeper to understand why this little girl died.

    -Catfish
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2004
  19. Elle

    Elle Member

    Not unless JonBenét was in the kitchen when Patsy lost it. Both children could have been in the kitchen eating the pineapple. Burke's print is also on the bowl with Patsy's. Maybe an argument stemmed from them eating the pineapple when they should have been in bed. (?). The flashlight being wiped doesn't make sense. Someone put it there, and there should have been prints on it if it was used innocently, but the fact it was wiped tells us something different. I'm glad you made me think of this part again, catfish. Thank you.

    It would be good if we could eliminate the other objects which could have been used to cause the head injury. What if there was an iron on the table (?).I can't help but feel JonBenét was thrown against a solid object that didn't move when her skull was so badly injured. I keep coming back to either the tub or the toilet.

    Yes, the ironing board should have been in the photo catfish. You're right!

    Yes, she does remark on this ironing board quite a bit. I've also noticed she particularly mentions that she was fussing with the red jump suit. I wonder if she was drawing attention to the fact the red jump suit was on the ironing board, and not on JonBenét as she had stated to the police on the 26 December, and then changed it to the white one with the star. She covers her errors.

    Delmar England's analysis on the garrote takes care of the staged ligature for me. I believe every word he wrote in his analysis, which confirms the staging. Plus Henry Lee's statement "Killers don't stage a crime scene in other people's homes." I quite believe they kill and leave as fast as lightning!


    Thanks for giving me the chance to go over some of my own thoughts which have been with me for over three years now. Some of the posters I know have been researching this case for over 7 years. Good luck with yours. catfish. I'm sure your posts will be interesting.
     
  20. Catfish

    Catfish Member

    Hi JustinCase,

    Thank you for the the warm welcome and kind words.

    No, I am not referring to that clear bag. What first brought my attention to a plastic bag was Patsy's various accounts about it - her version of events on the morning of December 26th kept changing.

    Repeating the quotes I used in my ironing board post above, emphasis now is placed on the plastic bag. In her April 1997 interview, there is no mention of a plastic bag or packing clothes that morning -

    Patsy Ramsey: "Okay, Um, we got up at about 5:30, I think, I think he went to the bathroom and shower. I went to my bathroom. I did not shower that morning and I just put my clothes on and, uh, did my hair and makeup and, uh, and then I started down the stairs. John was still in the bathroom and went, uh, I stopped kind of briefly there in the laundry room area. And I remember the ironing board was up, I think, and I fussed around with this little red jumpsuit of JonBenet's cause it had, had some spots on it and I was going to remember to do something with that when I got back and, uh, so I had, I had the light on in there in the laundry room area and, uh, um, then I started down the spiral staircase there.... 1997 April 30 - Taped Interrogation interview of Patsy Ramsey National Enquirer book, "JonBenet, The Police Files" Page 62-63

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thirteen months later, the plastic bag and packing clothes is discussed in the second police interview -

    PR: "And then I walked down downstairs... came to the landing... and there was an ironing board... I had a plastic bag... that I had just things to throw, throw in, to take for my trip. And I think I was here for a couple of minutes, just getting some clothes, things." June 23, 1998- Taped Interrogation interview of Patsy Ramsey National Enquirer book, "JonBenet, The Police Files" pages 136, 137 (pb)


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tom Haney: So now we are on the second floor, because you're coming down the stairs?

    Patsy Ramsey: Right, I am coming down.... I had the ironing board somewhere here. And I had- I think I had a couple of plastic bags here somewhere.... to take to the lake. June 23, 1998- Taped Interrogation interview of Patsy Ramsey National Enquirer book, "JonBenet, The Police Files" Page 142 (pb)


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tom Haney: "Okay, So we are still at the ironing board and this little red outfit. What do you do with that, how long does that take?

    Patsy Ramsey: "Just, I don't know, just a few minutes. And I don't know, I can't remember what I was doing. I just remember was trying to get this bag ready to go to the lake, I had two suitcases... of the children's things, I was trying to get ready, because when we came back from the lake we were going onto Disney and the Big Red Boat." Taped Interrogation interview of Patsy Ramsey National Enquirer book, "JonBenet, The Police Files" Page 144 (pb)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    So we learn from the June, 1998 police interviews that Patsy was packing clothes the morning of the December 26th, not the evening before, according to her testimony. What we didn't learn was where did she get the clothes she was packing? If she went into JonBenet's bedroom to get them, she would have seen JonBenet was not in bed. However, we learned from earlier statements that she didn't check on JonBenet until after seeing the note. From DOI, we learn where the clothes she was packing came from -

    "Minutes later I hurry down the back stairs from our bedroom to the second floor, where the children's bedrooms are located. I stop at the top of the spiral stairs that lead down to the first floor, and I turn to the laundry area."

    "Need to get a few things together for the trip, I think to myself. Not much, since we've already got clothes and most necessary items at the house in Charlevoix. I quickly shove some of the laundry into a plastic garbage sack that will go on the airplane as-is. John likes us to pack in soft sided bags because it makes loading the plane easier. I hurry down the spiral staircase to the bottom floor and stop." Page 10 - John and Patsy Ramsey book "Death of Innocence"

    We finally learn in DOI, that the clothing she needed to take to Michigan was "some of the laundry" conviently already in the laundry area. No reason go into JonBenet's room.......

    Patsy had four months to rehearse her answer to police on questions about the morning of Dec. 26th in her interview. No mention of a plastic bag.

    She had 13 more months to rehearse before her second interview. She had to know she would be asked about the events of that morning. Yet she is vague and gives varying accounts about the bag and packing.

    -Catfish
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2004
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice