New Fingerprint Technology (?)

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Elle, Oct 1, 2004.

  1. Elle

    Elle Member

    I was reading an article in today's Newspaper, in Ontario, Canada, which stated a local man had been arrested here in the Niagara Region for a murder committed in 1991 in Montreal. His arrest was made possible by new finger-printing technology used by the cold-case detectives in Montreal's Homicide section. With the new DNA system, the prints came up.

    Has anyone heard of this technique in the U.S.? This seems to be something different from the CODIS system, doesn't it? Dealing with fingerprints too(?).

    I wonder how this will relate to the DNA on hand with the JonBenét case (?)..
     
  2. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    I've not heard of the new technology Elle. Can it possibly a new way to identify a fingerprint from a partial print?
     
  3. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    I don't know if this is related or not, but I read recently about a new fingerprint technology that uses computer technology to identify prints with less points to work with. I read about this in Henry Lee's latest book, the Penney Serra case. "Latent print images were digitized into a computer and visualized on a high-resolution monitor, then were passed through filters and gray-scaling programs to produce the best possible images." This isn't really new, though - it was developed in late 1990.

    Guess I'll go stroll through cyberland and see what I can find.

    Postscript - I didn't find anything.
     
  4. Elle

    Elle Member

    I tried to post the article but it didn't work. I typed [​IMG] (?).

    This was in The Review today. The man was arrested in my own home town on Tuesday. I'll type part of it.

    The Fort Erie man arrested Tuesday in connection with a 13 year old homicide in Montreal has been charged with the second-degree murder
    of Norman Garneau, described as a 43 year old advertising salesman when he was killed in 1991.

    Michael Denis Lafond 36, was arrested at his home in Fort Erie, early Tuesday morning by Niagara Regional Police and OPP carrying out an arrest warrant on behalf of the Montreal police department.

    Lafond was charged with second-degree murder and is in custody in Montreal awaiting trial. His arrest was made possible by new fingerprinting technology used by the cold-case detectives in Montreal's homicide section.

    The new DNA system, the prints came up said Lt. Det. Antoine Bastien.
    ... ... ... ....

    I'm glad that DNA is still finding killers that think they got away with it, right in my own home town.
     
  5. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    ahhh pc technology to match the prints....too bad the intruder forgot to leave fingerprints at the Ramsey house.

    Think they will exhume JonBenet and test the stun gun marks?
     
  6. Elle

    Elle Member

    I did try to find some research Show Me before I posted it. I have read about the Codis Bank, but nothing about fingerprints coming into play. Hopefully, The BPD have taken fingerprints of the whole Ramsey family, and who knows just what may come from this (?).

    I think it's time the authorities stepped in and took charge of this case, making it an order of the court to exhume JonBenét's body.
     
  7. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    Who knows Elle it might be useful in the JonBenet case someday.

    Thanks for researching it WY, sorry you couldn't find any more info...however it's amazing what they've come up with in evidence research. Surprises are happening all the time.

    I can see the Patsy shaking in beaver fur boots....afraid of what new technology will find in the future!
     
  8. Elle

    Elle Member

    WY,

    This article led me to believe this was a "new fingerprint technique" and I would like to find out more information about this.

    The above technique you speak of sounds so complicated. It just keeps getting better by the minute. Thanks for posting this.
     
  9. Elle

    Elle Member

    I think it's going to be something like this kind of technology which may just catch up with them, Show Me.

    Can you just imagine this fellow's thoughts when he saw the police on his doorstep on Tuesday, thinking he'd got away with it for 13 years?

    Patsy may well be shaking in her boots right enough!
     
  10. Sabrina

    Sabrina Member

    I think they are referring to DNA as a "fingerprint" -- not the fingerprint mark left by one's fingers.

    No two people (or animals- check those cat paws)have the same friction ridge patterns on their hands and fingers and feet, and no two people have the same DNA pattern or "fingerprint" (except identical twins). The DNA band patterns that you see are sometimes referred to as "DNA fingerprint."

    By the way-all the prints are on computer files now in metropolitan cities, no more rolling your fingers in ink-- the fingers are scanned by computers and saved in files. When looking for a match, the computer searches for "possible" hits based on the points. A fingerprint examiner will still have to make the positive I.D.

    I recently attended a lecture on this and it is fascinating. Years ago, the examiner had to do everything by sight. It's amazing any crimes were solved.
     
  11. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Fingerprints

    I have a wonderful scar on one of my thumbs. It leaves a very distinctive print :)

    I believe they can now extract DNA from fingerprints in some circumstances.

    Also, there was a case here in Scotland in recent years, of a policewoman whose "fingerprint" was found in the upstairs of a murdered woman's house. The policewoman wasn't a suspect. She HAD come to the scene of crime, but stated that she hadn't been beyond the front hallway and that it couldn't be her fingerprint. In fact, if she had said nothing, there would have been no deal about it at all. However, she was adamant that there was a mistake and the POlice force got stroppy and the whole thing blew into a big case where she was accused of perjury.

    Eventually, an American expert was called in and he used a different fingerprinting technique and was able to prove that it wasn't her fingerprint and that in fact, the fingerprinting system being used here was very flawed. It opened a whole can of worms as you can imagine.

    They now use a different fingerprinting method here and are having to look at old cases that relied on fingerprint evidence.
     
  12. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin



    I'm only guessing here, but after reading and rereading this confusing quote, it sounds to me as if they are referring to the CODIS databank system (or Canada's equivalent), which would still be fairly new and possibly the upgraded fingerprinting databases, which were not as widely used 13 years ago as they are today. Often they will get both fingerprints and DNA samples from a crime scene with nobody to match them to. While only the DNA may go into the CODIS databank, the fingerprints related to the case are also stored somewhere. I don't know the particulars of this case, but it's possible they had both DNA and fingerprints from the crime scene but no one to match them to.

    Since the time that crime was committed, technology has improved so much, and fingerprints and DNA taken from violent crime scenes today can be run through both of those systems - the CODIS and the FBI's (or equivalent) fingerprinting databases.

    Since 1991, when this "cold" case was committed, this same perp could have committed other crimes and been caught - even served time. As a matter of course, his fingerprints, and probably his DNA, would have been entered into the databases at the time. In the meantime, the cold case in Montreal just sat there, waiting for the time someone decided to reopen the case and check those fingerprints (and DNA?) against whatever database Montreal uses. Now, there would be fingerprints and DNA in the system to match against those taken 13 years ago when the fingerprint and DNA technology wasn't in place.

    They may be referring to this technology as "new," which it would be since the time the crime was committed.

    In order to get fingerprint DNA, which could happen if the finger left enough viable cells behind to collect the DNA, or if the person had saliva or blood on his finger when he left the print, it would definitely have to be fingerprint DNA. IOW, a fingerprint can't be lifted from DNA, itself, but DNA MIGHT be lifted from a fingerprint.

    Now, I know you're confused, LOL.
     
  13. Elle

    Elle Member

    WY,

    I did say I would type part of the article, and your post has twisted my arm to type in the rest. Like you, I wondered if this "new fingerprint technique" was being classified as "new" which could still mean "Just not newly discovered,"

    I don't know why my jpg didn't open up (?). I even tried to find the newspaper on the net and give the url, but I couldn't even find that. Talk about frustrated!
    However, I was anxious to see if anyone else knew more about updated technology.

    WY, I'll type it exactly as it is, and then you can slap Corey Larocque's wrist for his grammatical mistakes. :gottarun:


    The Review (Niagara Falls) 1 October, 2004
    BY COREY LAROCQUE
    Review Staff Writer

    FORT ERIE - The Fort Erie man arrested Tuesday in connection with a 13 year old homicide in Montreal has been charged with the second-degree murder of Norman Garneau, described as a 43 year old advertising salesman when he was killed in 1991.

    Michael Denis Lafond 36, was arrested at his home in Fort Erie, early Tuesday morning by Niagara Regional Police and OPP carrying out an arrest warrant on behalf of the Montreal police department.

    Lafond was charged with second-degree murder and is in custody in Montreal awaiting trial. His arrest was made possible by new fingerprinting technology used by the cold-case detectives in Montreal's homicide section.

    "The new DNA system, the prints came up," said Lt. Det. Antoine Bastien.

    This is a cold-case unit that was investigating this murder. We got back-into from the files. We investigated the info. New info came in.We came up to this guy.

    Police said Garneau was killed April 28, 1991. His beaten body was discovered May 8 of that year in a wooded area near a golf course in
    l'Assumption a suburb northeast of Montreal.

    There were 77 murders in Montreal in 1991, more than half reported to be "settling of accounts" among organized crime elements. In the early 1990s Montreal Police were also investigating a string of killings of homosexual men.

    At the time, police believed Garneau's murder was linked to similar killings of two other men.

    But Lalond's arrest is a "solo-case" and police do not believe there's any connection to any other investigation, Basten said.

    "It was an incident between friends, that's it."

    -With files from the Montreal Gazette
     
  14. Elle

    Elle Member

    Hi Jayelles, as I said in one of my posts to WY, I was unsure if "new" was just being used to differentiate from the "old" method. along those lines, anyway.

    Your female cop was caught! Great! I like to see justice being done for the victims. I guess she's no longer in the force (?). Pleased to hear our Scottish Force smartened up.:)
     
  15. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    PREDICTION:

    Someday technology will be able to prove who put the tape on JonBenet's mouth.

    Next to Burke talking I think the tape on her mouth could break the case.
     
  16. JC

    JC Superior Cool Member

    "The Fort Erie man arrested Tuesday in connection with a 13 year old homicide in Montreal has been charged with the second-degree murder
    of Norman Garneau, described as a 43 year old advertising salesman when he was killed in 1991."

    I hope the Fort Erie man had never been around Norman before least the print need to be dated to the exact day and time of death.

    Because the person arrested in the 1992 Butts triple homicide had been in the Butts home before, DA Neil Birmingham and others excuse pubic hair with a little crab egg on the dead 11 year old girl and the partial palm print on the bathtub where the baby was drowned.

    That such evidence was present didn't mean it got there the night the family was murdered according to Birmingham. I'll bet it's different in Canada.
     
  17. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Elle

    No! The female cop was exonerated! She was telling the truth that she hadn't been inside the house. It was the fingerprinting system that was faulty.

    No the perp was a man. The young female WPC had a nervous breakdown over the case. She isn't in the police force any more, but I believe she's now had an official apology.
     
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    Jayelles,

    I was rushing out the door to get my hair cut, and I must have missed the following part of your post. :blush: I remember the last part. Forgive me!

     
  19. Elle

    Elle Member

    Thank you for this valuable information Sabrina. I knew about fingerprints having a different pattern, but didn't realize the DNA band patterns were sometimes referred to as "DNA fingerprints." I'm afraid I was thinking mainly of saliva and semen being tested with this method.

    It is amazing when you look back on these old methods of the criminals being caught. I suppose the DNA technique is still the best discovery at the moment when it's catching up with these criminals who thought they were getting away with it.

    Nice you got the chance to attend a lecture like that. Of course this may be in your line of work (?).
     
  20. Elle

    Elle Member

    I hope so Tricia, but I want it to happen right now.
     
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