JBR Bedroom Question

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Moab, Oct 5, 2004.

  1. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Shoes, shoes…what happened to the shoes?

    Coat, coat…what happened to the coat?

    JBR was carried up to bed her last night of being alive, and JR put her on
    the bed, and removed her shoes and her coat. He left the rest to Patsy,
    who changed out her bottoms and left her in the same top as she had on at the Whites. Right?

    Does anyone remember seeing the coat and shoes in any of the crime scene photos? Wonder what happened to them?


    ACR? Anyone?



     
  2. Elle

    Elle Member

    Moab,

    I would have thought they would have just hung her coat up downstairs where most people have their coats, closer to the front door, or in a small hall not far from the front door (?) Maybe her shoes might have been left in her cupboard upstairs (?). No, I don't remember seeing them at all, Moab.



    According to Steve thomas, Patsy Ramsey stated to the police on 26 December, 1996, that she put a red top on JonBenét on Christmas night. Later, she changed her testimony to having put on the white top with the sequined star, the one she was found dead in.

    According to Steve Th9mas. there was a red top found on JonBenét's counter "balled up" as if it had been wrung out. This made me think this is where a scuffle began. When Patsy Ramsey did her usual thing of wakening up JonBenét at midnight every night, to make her little girl go to the bathroom, she may have found her in a mess, and lost it.

    Nedra Paugh stated to Steve Thomas that JonBenét didn't like being hauled out of bed when she was sleeping and would scream blue bloody murder. Go figure, Moab.

    Patsy Ramsey denies that she wakened JonBenét up that night in the police files, and yet Patsy Ramsey had told her friend Pam that she was having a tough time with JonBenét's bedwetting and had to waken her up every night at midnight. Patsy Ramsey is a liar.
     
  3. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Thanks Elle, yeah you are right Patsy IS a liar. Was just tossing some stuff around today with friends and trying to decipher the stories about whether JBR was awake or asleep, and if she walked upstairs (coat left downstairs like normal people) or if she was carried upstairs (coat probably upstairs somewhere) because you wouldn't prop up a sleeping child in the front entry hall to take off their coat, right? And the subject came up of whether or not the coat and shoes were seen in the crime photos since a lot of other stuff was, and thought that might help determine who was telling the truth? Burke who said she walked up the stairs, or J&P who say she was carried. We saw a lot of other stuff in the bedroom laying around...but no coat and no shoes. And didn't John go on and on about how much JBR liked the shoes she wore. They may have even been boots, if my memory hasn't completely faded. Anyhow, just trying to ferret out the "real story"! Thanks for your thoughts.
     
  4. Little

    Little Member

    Moab,
    It does seem odd (well, not really considering who we are talking about) that there is no mention of this in the search warrants or items collected. Maybe sister Pam collected them during her sanctioned raid of the home, but there is no list of those items.

    I suppose when the parents were not asked to turn over the clothes they wore that night, it's not all that shocking if all the clothing JonBenet wore that evening/night were not collected.

    I don't recall reading whether or not the bag of clothing that Arndt moved from the entry to a closet had ever been checked out either.

    Elle - I couldn't agree with you more :)

    Little
     
  5. Elle

    Elle Member

    Yes, Moab you're right about the boots. John Ramsey talked about the top of JonBenét's boots having some kind of animal trim at the top, when she chose to wear another outfit different from Patsy's.

    I also remember reading Burke said JonBenét walked in front of him when she got out the jeep, and up the stairs. Nothing about taking her boots and coat off.

    This doesn't fit with John and Patsy Ramsey's account.

    Little, we never heard any more about those clothes from Linda Arndt. You're right!

    So many questions unanswered!
     
  6. Niner

    Niner Active Member

    Didn't Arndt stick the bag of clothes into the hall closet? That is my recollection...

    :hiya: Hi everyone!
     
  7. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    I think she did stick the sack of clothes somewhere, but I have no reason to believe Patsy would come home and place JBR's coat and boots in a sack, right?
     
  8. 1000 Sparks

    1000 Sparks Active Member

    I don't know either

    I'd think she'd have left them lie on the other bed for the following morning's trip, unless she was going to go back downstairs. Was it a jacket or coat?
     
  9. Little

    Little Member

    Moab,

    I have been re-reading some articles since you posed this question. I didn’t find any answers to your question, however, I did find some items of interest (to me at least).

    Quote from source: http://63.147.65.175/news/jonaff3.htm
    2) The body of JonBenet Ramsey
    3) Any and all writing paper or pads, lined and white in color.
    4) Any and all examples of handwriting found in the home.
    5)Any felt-type writing utensil with black ink.

    (Line blacked out)

    5) Light colored cloth string type material
    6)Shoes or clothing missing drawstrings or shoestring
    7)The curtilage of the home including the garage, the vehicles in the garage and outbuildings for footprints and physical evidence of intruders.

    (Attached was a copy of the handwritten note found by Mrs. Ramsey.

    (Also attached was a list of items removed from the home, including the body, material found on the body, clothing and a blanket, fibers and objects from the room where the body was found and elsewhere in the basement, pads of paper, pens and markers, the note, hair and fibers from JonBenet's and her parents' rooms, bedding, pieces of a broken window, the note and many other household objects.)
    End quote

    The warrant listed cord such as draw strings from pants and shoe laces. This is quite a difference from the rope that Lou Smit tries to pitch in his CTV commercial. Things that irritate the heck out of me: no one made a public statement that this was misleading at best, but in my opinion a deceitful tactic condoned by people who should be held to a higher standard.

    Quote from Source: http://63.147.65.175/news/jon141.htm
    Sgt. Jon Priest of the Denver Police Department's homicide unit said, "To get a search warrant, you only need to show probable cause.

    "All the information that's in your case does not have to go into a search warrant. I'm not going to put information in the search warrant that I want to hold close - such as some key piece of evidence only the killer is going to know - unless I need it to develop probable cause." Priest said the number of items seized from the Ramsey home is understandable.

    "A lot of times when you recover items, you want to recover things to eliminate them," Priest said.

    "Why you're doing this is to close down the defense. You don't want the defense accusing you of not doing a thorough investigation so you end up collecting more than what you need." End quote

    I wondered what was on the list that was not public information.

    Quote from Source http://63.147.65.175/news/jon141.htm
    The coroner found blood on the girl's panties but not on her body, leading him to conclude "that the evidence observed is consistent with the child's pubic area having been wiped with a cloth," the affidavit states.

    Meyer also told Arndt "that it was his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact," the affidavit continues.

    Earlier, detectives had viewed the girl's body under a black fluorescent light, which Arndt said can detect the presence of semen, and they believed they had found some.

    But, the affidavit continues, "according to examinations conducted at the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, no semen was located on the body, panties or clothing of JonBenet Ramsey."
    End quote

    There was blood on her panties, yet no evidence of semen on her body or the panties. She appeared to have been wiped down...why? Did the blood on her person disturb her assailant?

    Quote from Source:
    The search began about 10:20 that night.

    They seized a variety of items, including JonBenet's pink Barbie nightgown, a broken paintbrush and wooden shards, a red pocket knife, bedding and clothing.

    The Post has reported that a piece of broken paintbrush was used by the girl's killer to tighten the cord used to strangle her.
    End quote

    The Post’s reporting that the paintbrush was used to tighten the cord used to strangle JonBenet is just one of the assumptions made early on in this case. Certainly it would be a reasonable assumption - why the handle if it had not function - however this fallacy has been unchallenged by anyone (except Easy Writer). The media blindly accepts the spin and the RST certainly isn’t going to correct that error.

    Little
     
  10. Elle

    Elle Member

    I find this very interesting, Little. I must check this post again tomorrow, including the url's you have listed. Thank you for posting this.

    The cord which was used in the garrote looked like white woven flat cord which was similar to the white trim around Patsy Ramsey's lapels on her navy jacket/blazer. JonBenét had one exactly the same.

    You're right about Lou Smit pitching the rope found in the Ramsey home. It's not the same type as the garrote at all. This garrote cord used could have also been a draw string from a track suit, or even from sport shoe laces with the ends cut off. Draw strings and shoe laces would have been long enough to have created the staged garrote.

    Can't stop myself from thinking along these lines when something like this crops up, Little.
     
  11. Elle

    Elle Member

    Hi Niner, and Moab. I remember reading about this bag of clothes being put in a closet for later transfer to the police station.
     
  12. Elle

    Elle Member

  13. Moab

    Moab Admin Staff Member

    Thanks Elle...I just don't think if they arrived home at 9-10pm, in the Winter with coats on, and had to leave very early the next morning in the Winter and would need a coat, they would put them in a bag. I could easily see Patsy throwing it on the other bed since JBR would need it again the next morning, but it wasn't in any of the photos, and I can't see them propping a sleeping child against the wall downstairs to remove it. It is just something that makes me go Hmmm.
     
  14. Elle

    Elle Member

    Yes, and I can understand why, Moab! :)
     
  15. Wolfmarsgirl

    Wolfmarsgirl Member


    Here is what we do:

    Hubby carries Wolfkid into the house. I run behind him (or in front of him). He lays her on the bed and then he dashes out of the room. I remove her shoes, but not her socks...socks would awaken her. I remove one arm of the coat (if she is wearing one), then wait a minute before removing the other arm because I have to kind of rock her back and forth to get both arms out.

    I do take her coat out of her room and hang it in the foyer closet.... I would never leave it draped over anything in her room because it would most certainly get lost in the debris, lol! I also put her shoes in the mud room. I would not leave them in her room, especially if they are boots and would likely be soiled.

    I would never change her pants! She would not sleep through such a disturbance.

    I did have to change pants on a sleeping wolfkid a few days before Halloween this year. She had been hiking in the mud and my hubby pointed out that she had mud all over her cuffs. She woke up for a moment, but, thankfully, went back to sleep. Now, on this occasion, she was wearing shorts under her long sweat pants, so I didn't have to pull on new pants. If I were to completely change her bottoms, as Patsy claims she did to JBR, then she would be awake for the night!

    I don't think it is severely unusual for Patsy to move JBR's outerwear to the location where she normally keeps them. If JBR was anything like my kid, then I am sure she had plenty of other coats on hand. So, the coat in question may not have even been the one she was going to wear on the 26th.
     
  16. Elle

    Elle Member

    Hello again WMG, I've posted with you before on C and J, a terrific site, but my brains can only handle one site as those years keep chipping away. :)

    All mothers know the routine of putting their own child to bed, and the Ramsey's testimony was full of lies without repeating them all again. They just cannot get it right! All three of them have a different story to tell.
     
  17. Wolfmarsgirl

    Wolfmarsgirl Member

    Hiya Elle!

    Heck, my brain can't handle one forum these days, lol!

    I just don't know any mom of a six-year-old child who actually changes the child's pants while he/she is asleep. I mean, maybe you would remove the pants if they are stiff material (like jeans), but to replace them with new pants is pretty risky if you want the kid to stay asleep.
     
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    Yes, WMG, I agree with you. Not the most sensible thing to do. Anyway, Patsy cant' recall and can't remember too much about JonBenét's bedtime procedure on Christmas night. It changes by the minute.

    The Ramseys decide four months down the road they'll talk to the Boulder Police. How considerate of them! Four months after JonBenét's death allows them the privilege of "not recalling and remembering too much of anything." Just turn the clock back please and allow me the fantasy of being Detective Sgt.Larry Mason, leading the Ramseys to the police car on the afternoon of December 26, 1996.
     
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