John confesses to 11 o'clock -- again!

What is the deal with this man? Can anyone provide any reasonable explanation?

As has entered RDI lore by now, John has been said to have told Stewart Long that he found JonBenet at 11 o'clock on the morning of December 26th. Much tortured rationale has been applied on the part of Ramsey defenders to explain why John would say that time. John could not have been translating the time from Mountain to Eastern for Stewart's sake, because JonBenet was found at three o'clock Eastern time in Georgia. So here this odd bit of info sits, absent anywhere useful to fit.

But look at what we have here today!

http://www.lewistownsentinel.com/articles.asp?articleID=2238

“In that very moment — the kind of moment when you’re in the mall and you realize your little one is no longer by your side — I got a huge knot in my stomach. But, there was no relief of finding a little head poking out of a clothing rack to show that my child was simply hiding. I found her five hours later, in the basement, strangled,†John Ramsey said.

Obviously, since John began looking for her around six in the morning, five hours later is 11 o'clock.

I now will take it as an item of evidence that John went to the basement, and did indeed "find" JonBenet in the basement windowless room at 11 o'clock on the morning of December 26th, and that all subsequent odd behavior on his part after that time can be attributed to his knowing that she was dead, and his refusal to admit to this knowledge until Linda Arndt provided him with the perfect excuse to "find" JonBenet with witnesses present.

Edited to add: DocG, your theory now gains points.

 

I thought this article was a couple of years old until I got to the end and saw it was dated today's date. To read it one would think that the DNA was only recently submitted to CODIS when it was around two years ago (or more) it was submitted. So, is there STILL a backlog on getting the DNA into the system?

Gee, a whole room packed with notebooks full of leads never followed. That must be the crackpot room with crackpot Smit sitting right in the middle of all those notebooks studying the crockpot phone calls and e-mails.

What a crock.

I too think John was in the basement at 11:00 when he "found" his daughter's body.

BTW, great find, Why_Nut.

 

According to Steve Thomas "JonBenét" PB ... page 156 Stewart Long called him unexpectedly, breaking both his silence and John Ramsey's story about the timing of the discovery of JonBenét's body.

In a telephone, interview, Stewart Long , Melinda's fiancé recounted the sudden rush to Colorado with John Andrew and Melinda, on the morning of the December 26. They were unaware of anything more than JonBenét had been kidnapped. Long said John Ramsey climbed into a van with them and told them that JonBenét "was with Beth now." Father and son cried as Ramsey described how he had discovered the body around eleven o'clock that morning.

Steve almost dropped the telephone as he made sure the "record" button was pressed on his recorder. "When you say eleven o'clock that morning, are you assuming that was Mountain time or Eastern time?"

"I'm assuming that was Mountain time. He said eleven o'clock, so I'm assuming he was speaking about his own time reference."

Steve Thomas was blown away. He writes. We had found a credible witness who heard John Ramsey say he'd discovered the body two hours earlier than we previously believed.

Steve believed this punched a big hole in the generally accepted timeline. Eleven o'clock would have been just about the time John Ramsey temporarily vanished from the sight of Detective Arndt, when she thought he had gone for the mail. Steve recalls how Arndt described the marked change in his behavior after he came back, silent, brooding and nervous.

Yes, I've often wondered if Ramsey found JonBenét at 11:00 am after reading Steve's take on this.(?).

Here it is cropping up again. I can't understand why John Ramsey hasn't been taken to task for this statement. I hope Tom Bennett is paying double attention to this latest statement (?).

 

So he discovers his daughters body, implying he didn't have previous knowledge of her being dead.....so why the wait in letting this be known..? why no immediate reaction to finding your child dead!?!
what in the world made him think it was nessessary to keep her death a secret from police?.....I'm confused.

 

Freebird,

There are times when I'm torn between thinking - John Ramsey may have been finding out for the first time that his daughter was dead; that it may have been his wife who was responsible in one way or another, for her death, and he needed time to think straight

Or, that Patsy had already managed to get his help in the staging of the garrote after an accidental death. I'm very strongly influenced by Delmar England's analysis of the garrote and ransom note. I do see Patsy Ramsey all over this note. There is hatred for John in there, and Delmar's analysis helped me to understand the content of the letter, which was really more important than the actual handwriting itself, plus understanding the garrote was a fake.

It was unfortunate the police didn't discover JonBenét's body when they searched early morning. I cannot see John and Patsy Ramsey being so stupid as to think the Police would leave their home, and then they could dispose of the body. His son, John Andrew, and daughter Melinda and her fiancé were already on their way to Boulder. They were stymied here! They had no choice. I think this was why John made the beeline to the basement when asked todo a search.

John Ramsey has to be challenged as to what he was up to when he left the group that morning. Someone out there has to challenge this man. We all need answers!

 

Oh Fox!....are you reading here? You should, it will save your legal team a lot of time in research!

 

I didn't attribute too much to this "error" when it was Stewart Long reporting it to ST. I figured that one would easily lose track of time if one's child were missing.

I wonder if this reporter recorded the Ramsey speech?

 

Ooh la! Good catch, WY. Thanks for bringing this article to our attention.

Keep talking Ramseys, and keep stepping in it. One of these days, running your mouths off as guest speakers for "Christian" functions ... you may just put that nail in your coffin.

(Note to John R. - Can I say "coffin"?)

Once again, John verifies what many of us have suspected ... that his "discovery" of JonBenet's body at 1:00 p.m. was staged because he'd already found her earlier ... around 11:00 a.m. when he was allowed to wander the grounds alone.

Elle, I'm also torn between the two scenarios you suggest. Patsy obviously knew JonBenet was dead ... she wrote the ransom note. But when did John find out? Did he help stage the crime scene? Or did he slowly figure it out that morning? As he read the ransom note, did he see what we see, i.e. Patsy as the author ... and as the morning went on, he became more suspicious? Then, he found the body at 11:00 a.m., and his suspicions were confirmed, but he waited to see how it would play out until he could stand it no longer?

Did John suspect Burke was involved, and that Patsy had covered for him, so he didn't tell police? Did John think Patsy acted alone, but he realized if he "ratted" her out, he would lose everything, i.e. job, status, and possibly Burke, because he'd been warned in the ransom note that if he told what he suspected, Patsy would make him pay dire consequences.

If John was in on the killing (accidental or otherwise) of JonBenet, why would he say to Stewart Long (and the others) she was found at 11:00 a.m., but we know he didn't bring her body upstairs until 1:00 p.m.? Why would he confirm that with his quote in the Lewistown Sentinel? If he was guilty, why did he not bring her body upstairs the FIRST time he "found" it? Why wait?



On another note ... so, THIS is what the Ramseys do for money now while their waiting on the Fox "settlement." They're giving motivational talks to Christian organizations. How special.

I think I'm going to be sick if I hear Patsy Ramsey say ONE MORE TIME that JonBenet "fulfilled" her purpose in this world. How dare she? It is one thing to have Christian faith, but to twist that faith into a blatent rationalization in order to salve your own conscience is disgusting.

Of course, it just reinforces what I've said all along ... that Patsy and John have eased their pangs of guilt about what happened to JonBenet with the rationalization that she is "in a better place." It's the only way they can live with themselves, (and if Burke is involved, live with him also).


IMO

 

This is a tough one, Cherokee, isn't it? Trying to figure out why he didn't. If it was the first time he had seen JB dead, then I think he needed to talk to Patsy by herself, but how could he (?). Patsy was the one who made the phone calls to her friends to "come on over!" She was surrounded by them, and also heavily sedated, so he must have been in a quandary as to how he should handle it (?).

How dare she indeed, Cherokee? I think you're right., it's the only way they can live with themselves.

Getting back to John's time in the basement, an awful lot must have been going through his head, if it was the first time he had found JonBenét dead (?). He might have considered Burke could have been involved (?). He sure was up against a rock and a hard place with the detective and the friends upstairs. He certainly was agitated when he returned, and for good reason!

 

Yes, Jay, I understand what you mean here, anyone could be forgiven at such a traumatic time, with his young daughter having been found dead in such a dramatic way, but John Ramsey's slip of the tongue slips too often; even on TV with LKL, when he stated there was such a big crowd at his house at 3:00 am. (???) the morning of the murder. It was hard to know what was going on. Thor, a poster here actually saw and heard John Ramsey actually utter these words. Makes you think, doesn't it?

At least John Ramsey's speech has been transcribed, Jay, and is on record at The Sentinel newspaper in Lewiston, Pennsylvania..

 

What's missing from this JR quote, as per usual, is the lack of anything regarding the terror Jonbenet must have felt in her final moments. It's always about how HE feels, how he found her and how that ruined things for HIM, how sad he is, how insulted he is, how wronged he is. But most importantly, how not guilty he is. Even three years after my pig Delta was killed by that dog I still feel extreme guilt for not protecting her. I can't even stand to think about what she went through.

Has anyone ever noticed patsy almost never rambles on and on with self-pity like this? For someone who was so theatrical at one time, this role reversal is pretty shocking. Oh to be a fly on the wall...

 

You're right, Bob. I know I would be able to think of nothing BUT how scared my little girl must have been and how she would have cried out for her mom. That would haunt me the rest of my life. I've never seen this kind of crushing pain in the Ramseys.

The Ramseys have been through a lot in these past few years, that's true. They've been villified in the press and by the public, they've been called baby killers, JR has been accused by many of child molestation. They have fought very hard to get back their good name. It hasn't worked, and it will never work, and it's their own fault. It was true then, it's true now - parents with nothing to hide do not act the way the Ramseys have acted.

Parents who are truly innocent do not hire lawyers and henchmen the day their child is murdered to fight against the police investigation, which is exactly what the Ramseys did. They did not cooperate with the investigation; in fact, everything their lawyers did on their behalf stunk of defensive stalls and obstruction of justice. If they had nothing to hide and they truly wanted the killer of their daughter found, there would have been no excuses to avoid meeting with police detectives to give them the information they needed to proceed with the investigation. There would have been no need for negotiations with the police months after the fact for face-to-face meetings. They would have been there. Period. They would have really worked with the investigators, not against them.

But, then, I am talking about truly innocent parents. Guilty people act exactly the way the Ramseys have acted. They and they alone are responsible for the public's perception of them. I read every tab that came out about the Ramseys. Nothing in the tabs influenced me. The Ramseys' own behavior influenced me. None of the reasons they have given - no claims of police persecution, no lawyer's advice - nothing would have kept them from openly assisting the police in every way they could to find the killer of JB.

It's all about John and Patsy Ramsey. Always has been. Perhaps they don't have to wonder about the terror their little girl felt and that's why they don't talk about it. Perhaps at least one of them caused it.

 

So true WY..... of course I don't know but I would think you would bond with the police...

 

I would be their biggest cheerleader, Freebird. Cooperating completely with the police gets you a lot further than stonewalling them, if you have nothing to hide.

 

did you notice?

JR also said he found the note in the kitchen? It seems like a Clue game almost. Was it Patsy, with a note on the spiral stairs? Was it JR with a note in the kitchen? Was it Burke with a red swiss army knife in the basement? :yow:

 

http://www.lewistownsentinel.com/articles.asp?articleID=2238

>>On the morning after Christmas of that year, the Ramsey family experienced what John Ramsey calls the worst moment of his life. He discovered a ransom note in the kitchen and the absence of his 6 year-old daughter.

“In that very moment — the kind of moment when you’re in the mall and you realize your little one is no longer by your side — I got a huge knot in my stomach. But, there was no relief of finding a little head poking out of a clothing rack to show that my child was simply hiding. I found her five hours later, in the basement, strangled,†John Ramsey said.<<

Yeah, it's all about John Ramsey. The worst moment of HIS life. HE discovered the ransom note (I thought Patsy did) in the kitchen. (The KITCHEN?) HE got a huge knot in his stomach, but no relief. HE found her in the basement.

But let's look at what else he's emphasizing ...

... that JonBenet was STRANGLED.

Yes, once again, we have the Ramseys trying to point away from themselves (as good people vs. violent intruder) with "she was strangled."

It was the main point of the staging, and it's STILL their main point.

John doesn't say "I found her five hours later, in the basement, dead."

Or, "I found her five hours later, in the basement" PERIOD

He has to add a descriptive adjective to the end of his sentence to make sure we know JonBenet was STRANGLED.

What happened to the fatal blow on JonBenet's head that was so severe it cracked her skull? Why is that never mentioned by the Ramseys? Why is it they always want to divert our attention to a "gentle" strangulation that was SO gentle, it didn't even break the hyoid bone in a six-year-old child?

I'll tell you why.

Because the head injury is what the Ramseys were worried about in the first place. It was the head injury they tried to cover up with their staging of the clumsy ligature device, and the ties around her wrists.

And you can take this to the bank ... it may have been Patsy, John or Burke who cause the head injury, but whoever it was ... THAT was the initial, and main, injury JonBenet suffered, and what they were worried about hiding from the world. The head injury, not the staged "strangulation" holds the key to what really happened to JonBenet Ramsey.

 

Yes, Cherokee, this is what I believe too; the head blow came first with the rest coming under the title of "staged.".

 

I am in shock! The shock is because I can't believe he admitted this in public! I hope someone sends this tidbit to Mr. Bennett. I have to believe that he will do the right thing.

Thanks Why_Nutt! I am going to read the whole article. (After I compose myself from the shock)

 

This could have been a fault on the reporter's part, Texan. She doesn't say he said this (?). Someone else here wondered if this was on record. On tape. I'm hoping it was! (?).

Ramseys deliver message of hope
[font=Arial,]Stacie Morgan Sentinel Reporter[/font]
[font=Arial,]
On the morning after Christmas of that year, the Ramsey family experienced what John Ramsey calls the worst moment of his life. He discovered a ransom note in the kitchen and the absence of his 6 year-old daughter.[/font]

 

You'd think after seven years they could keep their stories straight