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  1. #13

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    From Patsy Ramsey Atlanta Police Interview 8/28/00:
    14 MR. LEVIN: Mrs. Ramsey, I think
    15 the question, and let me see if I can make
    16 it very simple, that the chief was getting
    17 at was Mr. Helgoth's name, was that a name
    18 that was prior to the murder of your
    19 daughter? I know since then you've became
    20 familiar with it, but prior to the murder of
    21 your daughter, was that a name you were
    22 familiar with?
    23 THE WITNESS: No.

    At all times, PR claimed to have never heard of Helgoth but now, in the latest spin on him, he allegedly worked at the Ramsey home prior to JB’s murder.

    ***

    Excerpts from John Ramsey Deposition (Wolf v. Ramsey) 12/12/01:
    Q. Now I want to ask you, in the statement, there is a reference to an early lead. What kind of lead was it? Was it – you know, specifically. Since you weren’t shown any files.
    MR. WOOD: Do you mean how was he imparted, the information imparted to him by Helgoth?
    MR. HOFFMAN: Yes. I had asked him earlier if he ever had an opportunity to review any of the investigative files on any of the murder suspects.
    A. I have not seen any of the evidence the police have.
    Q. Any evidence that your investigators have?
    A. I have seen a few things relating to your client [Chris Wolf]. I don’t know that I have seen anything relating to Helgoth.

    A. The investigators were retained by our attorneys, and they stated to me that the principal purpose of those investigators was to prepare a defense in the case that the police might bring a charge against me. I hoped that they would also follow up on leads that came to us, but I was frequently reminded by our attorneys that their principal role was to prepare a defense should that be necessary.
    ***
    Excpert from RMN article:

    CU prof pushes idea that intruder killed 6-year-old in Boulder
    By Charlie Brennan, Rocky Mountain News
    June 15, 2004

    "We did investigate Helgoth," said Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner. "And all I can tell you is that there was no DNA match.

    "And we looked at a pair of (Helgoth's) boots that had been turned in by the Ramseys' private detectives, and they were compared and didn't match. We didn't have anything further to go on."

  2. #14

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    Evidently the Peterson's private investigator isn't convinced that there's a definite link between Amy's assault and JonBenet's murder. But the spin keeps promoting that there is:

    Transcript of Geraldo show 8/2/00

    HEADLINE: SEXUAL ASSAULT CASE SIMILAR TO JONBENET RAMSEY MURDER CASE IS DISCOVERED

    ANCHORS: GERALDO RIVERA
    REPORTERS: LEANNE GREGG

    BODY:
    Mr. JOHN RAMSEY (Father of JonBenet Ramsey): (From May 24) You need to realize there's a killer of children that walks among us. It's not Patsy, and it's not I. Let's get on with finding the killer. That is our single and only objective in doing any of this.

    GERALDO RIVERA, host:
    John Ramsey made that emotional statement back in May, again vigorously repeating the consistent denial that he and his wife, Patty, had absolutely nothing to do with their daughter, JonBenet's, horrific death.
    Now, for the first time in three and a half years, there is a real new development that could conceivably--maybe that's a stretch, but I think, you know, conceivably support the couple's claim of innocence. Police in Boulder, Colorado, are testing evidence from an attempted assault on a teen-age girl who attended the same dance studio as JonBenet. NBC's Leanne Gregg says authorities are looking for any connection between the two crimes.

    LEANNE GREGG reporting:
    The crime scene: a basement of the Ramsey home where JonBenet's body was found. Police in Boulder are running more tests on evidence found here. They're checking to see if palm prints at the Ramsey crime scene match prints found at the scene of a sexual assault of a 14-year-old girl that happened after JonBenet's murder.
    Chief MARK BECKNER (Boulder Police): There is a killer walking the streets in this country. We just have to figure out who that is.
    GREGG: Comments from Boulder police Chief Mark Beckner months ago. This week Beckner says he doubts there's a link between the two crimes, but admits it's worth a second look.
    Police reports say the 14-year-old girl went to JonBenet's dance academy. She was attacked in her bed. Her mother interrupted the assault, and the attacker got away.
    Attorneys for John and Patsy Ramsey say by dismissing a possible link, Boulder police demonstrated a lack of objectivity that's been evident from the beginning of the investigation. JonBenet's parents consistently deny involvement in the case, but remain under suspicion. During an earlier interview, the Ramseys said an intruder killed their daughter, and they won't give up on finding the person responsible.
    Mr. RAMSEY: (From WSMV-TV): Well, what we've wanted and what we continue to want is that the investigation continue.
    GREGG: A grand jury disbanded last fall after examining the case for 13 months. No charges have been filed.
    RIVERA: Yesterday John Ramsey called the development 'hugely significant.' Just hours ago he spoke by phone with an Atlanta TV station.
    Mr. RAMSEY: (Courtesy WXIA) My belief is that this killer probably has killed before and will act again. So to know that it happened within two miles of the house, potentially, within nine months of JonBenet's murder was--was shocking. As I say, on--on the one hand, it's tragic that it had to happen, but it--to me, it's encouraging that what we believed would happen, we have a record of it and--and some knowledge and some more information that can be put into the piece of the puzzle.
    RIVERA: NBC's chief legal correspondent, Dan Abrams, joins us now from New York City. First of all, Dan, is this indeed a significant development, and why the hell didn't we hear about it before?
    DAN ABRAMS (NBC News): Well, look, I don't know why we didn't hear about it before. This is the sort of incident that the police should have been looking into long ago. Now I--I spoke with the police chief, Mark Beckner, yesterday at length about this, and his position is, 'We did know about it. We investigated this. I personally'--I, Beckner--'knew about this as soon as I became briefed on the details of the Ramsey case. And the fact that the press didn't know about it until now isn't our
    problem.'
    The problem is, though, that the DAs didn't know about it. The prosecutors who brought...
    RIVERA: Ouch!
    ABRAMS: ...who brought this case to the grand jury didn't know about this other incident. And that is problematic, regardless of what you think about the Ramseys' guilt or innocence. And it boils down to this--and this is sort of the same idea Beckner was--was saying to me--is if you believe that the Ramseys did it, then this is really irrelevant. I--if you're convinced that the Ramseys did it, who cares if there was an intruder in someone else's house? But if you leave open the possibility that the Ramseys didn't do it or you believe the Ramseys didn't do it, then this is extremely significant. Nine months later, another girl attacked sexually, went to the same dance studio, same sort of lying-in-wait kind of attack. All relevant factors.
    RIVERA: Right back. Hugely Significant, said Mr. Ramsey. Is it?
    (Announcements)
    RIVERA: A significant development in the JonBenet Ramsey case. I really do think it is significant, a kind of a--a look-alike case nine months later. Dan Abrams and--and I have been pretty close to this case, and neither of us, through our various sources heard it. Maybe because the cops didn't want to tell us, Dan.
    ABRAMS: Well, you know, y--that--that's--that's the interesting part is: Why didn't we know about this? This is a 33-page police report of facts that sure do sound similar to the Ramsey case. And as I made this point to Mark Beckner, the police chief, when I spoke with him, you know--and that is this doesn't happen in Boulder. The notion that some...
    RIVERA: Right.
    ABRAMS: ...someone would be in someone's house, an intruder would be in a little girl's house while the mother is home, sexually assaulting the girl, that in and of itself even happening once seems extremely unlikely in Boulder. And the fact that the Ramseys have always maintained that that's exactly what happened in their house in the JonBenet Ramsey case is something at the very least worth looking into.
    RIVERA: In Denver tonight, the city's former chief deputy district attorney, our pal Craig Silverman, joins us. He's now a civil and criminal trial lawyer.
    Craig, what the hell happened here?
    Mr. CRAIG SILVERMAN (Civil and Criminal Attorney; Former Prosecutor): Well, I think it's another interesting sideshow in this tragic circus of a case. It's hard to believe that the DAs did n--did not know about it. I mean, what's the source of that information? And...
    ABRAMS: I--my--my sources--my sources are good on that, and I can tell you...
    Mr. SILVERMAN: Right.
    ABRAMS: ...the DAs did not know about it.
    Mr. SILVERMAN: Right, but the--you know...
    RIVERA: Alex Hunter refused comment today, I must say.
    Mr. SILVERMAN: Well, Alex Hunter has surrogates, and Alex Hunter benefits by putting out this story; so do--so do the Ramseys. And, you know, Mark Beckner is going along with it and he is saying the right things because they have a meeting scheduled toward the end of the month. And there's really only one way this case is going to be solved at this point, and that's a confession by whoever did it. It's time that the key witnesses cooperated, and you can bet there's more than one Boulder cop who's fantasized about getting the confession of a lifetime from one or more Ramseys.
    RIVERA: OK. In San Diego, we welcome Pete Peterson, a private investigator whose firm also has branches in Denver and LA; Mr. Peterson hired by the family of the 14-year-old to look into the girl's assault.
    What do they think, Pete?
    Mr. R.W. PETERSON (Private Investigator): Well, how do you mean 'What do they think?' I mean, obviously...
    RIVERA: Do they--do they think there's a link?
    Mr. PETERSON: Well, let's put it this way. We think there's--there's a possibility of that. I don't know that I'm directly convinced. There is--we investigated it for about a year and a half, as well as the Ramsey case. We got involved in that because of it. There are d--some--some definite parallels with regard also to handwriting, and some of the people...
    RIVERA: How come you didn't tell anybody, Pete?
    Mr. PETERSON: I did. You know, the only reason--this is a new development--it's not a new development; this has been there for three years. And somebody by the name of Charlie Brennan, a reporter, picked it up. I mean, we were out there with it--we were out there with it. We talked to the DA; we talked to Lou Smit.
    RIVERA: So you did--did you talk to the DA?
    Mr. SILVERMAN: Right. So--so the Ramseys have known about this for a long time. Let's...
    ABRAMS: No, if--if--but wait...
    Mr. SILVERMAN: Let's put the cards out that we know. Ellis Armistead, a private investigator, quit the case. I'm sure he had knowledge of this situation.
    ABRAMS: If the Ramseys knew about this, it would have been in their book.
    Mr. PETERSON: No, I don't think he had knowledge of it.
    ABRAMS: If the Ramseys knew about this...
    RIVERA: I agree with Dan.
    ABRAMS: ...I guarantee you it would have been in their book. This would be a bombshell for the Ramseys.
    Mr. SILVERMAN: You know...
    ABRAMS: Why wouldn't they want to make it public if they'd known about it?
    Mr. SILVERMAN: Dan--Dan, you make a good point about this being somewhat rare in Boulder. But here, a few miles away in Denver, I prosecuted a lot of rapists who sneak into the house and wait for their prey.
    ABRAMS: Yeah, but--and, Craig...
    Mr. SILVERMAN: That happens.
    ABRAMS: Yeah, but--but that--that--that's not what I'm talking about. The reality--no--no, it's not...
    Mr. SILVERMAN: But there are so many innocent people nowadays, Dan.
    Mr. PETERSON: But, gentlemen, it's not rare in Boulder.
    ABRAMS: It is rare in Boulder.
    Mr. PETERSON: It's not rare in Boulder.
    ABRAMS: It is rare.
    RIVERA: Wait, what do you mean--what do you mean by that, Pete? What do you mean by that?
    Mr. PETERSON: It's not rare in Boulder.
    ABRAMS: He's wrong.
    Mr. PETERSON: Hold up, hold up, the talking heads there, please. It's not rare in Boulder. This happened on three different occasions during a one-month period close to this case. There was another lady we talked to who had a gentleman hiding in her apartment. Now you can go back...
    ABRAMS: Right, but we're talking about children.
    Mr. PETERSON: ...go back and--go back and check the police reports.
    ABRAMS: Yeah, but wait...
    Mr. PETERSON: There were three other incidents just like this, like the case we investigated, and we talked to at least two of these people.
    RIVERA: All unsolved, Pete?
    Mr. PETERSON: Right. And these were people that were secreted in their house for a period of hours until they came home or while they were home.
    ABRAMS: But--but what makes this--but what makes this different...
    RIVERA: Let me just explain to the folks...
    Mr. PETERSON: Now this is common. This is fairly common in Boulder.
    RIVERA: All right. Dan, I'm going to let you finish. I just--if the g--the intruder theory is that the guy was in--was--was there when they all went to bed. I mean, in this--in this other case, Pete--Pete's case, the intruder had to be there because there was an alarm system on the house
    Mr. PETERSON: He was there. They set the alarm at 11 PM.
    RIVERA: ...and the alarm only triggered when the mother and the--and the child fled the house to go to the cops.
    Mr. SILVERMAN: Yeah, but, Geraldo, what if the Ramseys--what if the Ramseys...
    ABRAMS: Right, but--but here we're talking about attacking a child, Geraldo.
    RIVERA: Dan, go ahead.
    ABRAMS: That's the--that's the difference. In Boulder, it has happened that people have come into people's houses, particularly college students. It's happened fairly often that intruders end up in women's homes.
    Mr. SILVERMAN: Right.
    ABRAMS: The difference is here you have a child who is being attacked, a female child, while the parent is in the house.
    Mr. SILVERMAN: Right. But what has happened after that, Dan...
    ABRAMS: That is the comparison that makes it particularly unique.
    Mr. SILVERMAN: Dan, what has happened after that at the Ramsey house...
    RIVERA: OK, listen, we're going to do more on this. And, Dan, certainly when you're in this seat on--on Monday, you're going to--you're going to follow it up, on--I'm positive.

  3. #15

    Default Conclusion

    Clearly, the "evidence" claimed in Tracey's crock by Gray et al has been around for at least 4 years now and is not new as Mary Keenan publicly announced. The Ramseys, all their investigators, the police, the DA's office have all known about this old evidence for years. All of it's either been tested and ruled no match or analyzed by competent professionals and found to be no link. The only value it continues to have is for the sake of sensationalistic journalism and the load of money it brings in.

    It completely exhonerates at least Helgoth. It is my understanding that Mr. Gigax contacted the BDA and freely offered DNA swabs for testing so that he could clear his name, and that the BDA declined his offer. That speaks volumes.

    And clearly, the only reason this crap was ever created and has continued to morph, spin and grow to such sensational proportions is solely to create a defense in behalf of the Ramseys in whatever potential cases necessary. That alone should reveal that the RST's efforts have never been focused on finding the truth, or finding any real killer, but merely to get and keep the Ramsey asses off the hook, a whole other ball game.

    While I wish Fox the best in the upcoming hearing, I am hoping that the case will not be dismissed so that a full trial and therefore testing of ALL the evidence, prosecution and defense alike, can be finally put to the test and rest.

  4. #16
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    I can't believe Henry Lee forgot to put in his book that the DNA cleared the Ramseys. He is like so incompetent.

  5. #17

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    Yeah, and Cyril Wecht.... :tipsy: Isn't it amazing how nobody knows anything in this case and has no credibility but the Ramseys and their hired hands? :stupid1:

  6. #18
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    Have you ever been busy, Deja! I will try and find the time to read all of them.
    Your posts are always very unique.. Thank you for taking the time to post them.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  7. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricia
    Sabreena and I were talking last night.

    Isn't this interesting that all of this "The parents are innocent" crap is coming out right before the judge in the Fox suit decides summary judgement?

    Think about it.
    It makes me think they want this case tried in the media. Previously I thought that was what Lawyer Wood just plain didn't like.

    And press sec jameson is over there saying the dna in the panties matches the dna under the fingernail: "Bennett was not saying the DNA was in the panties because someone used the panties as a handkerchief - he was just pointing out that there was a small amount of DNA in the panties. It is highly unlikely that anyone sneezed in her underwear - and that the same DNA ended up under her nails - - and not anywhere else."

    If a goof wasn't made, another morning of getting to see the dynamic duo, Wood & Ramsey, in action.

  8. #20
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    "This guy called her by name, so they think he targeted her," Moriarty said Friday on The Early Show.

    Oh yeah? When did "this guy" call JB by name? Just more BS.

    They are lying through their teeth when they say the DNA under her fingernails matched the DNA in her panties. Jameson herself said there were only 2 or 3 identifiable markers in the crappy DNA under her fingernails. If she now claims she didn't say that, then I'll call her a bald-faced liar to her face, because I saw it. That kind of material is NOT going to get anyone a match on DNA. CODIS criteria demands a certain number of clear markers for admission to the database. They say they submitted it to CODIS. I have never seen official verification from CODIS saying they accepted the DNA. But, for argument's purposes, say they did accept it. There was a big question on the last marker - it wasn't clear enough to meet CODIS criteria. Then, all of a sudden, it was.

    I don't like being lied to. I don't like someone trying to pull a fast one on me. And, I don't believe anything these liars say. If they lie about some things, they will lie about others, including the DNA. I'd like verification the DNA is actually in the CODIS database, and that doesn't mean jameson's or Lin Wood's word. Their word has no credibility with me.
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  9. #21
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    Oh, and BTW, every time I read what they say or write about DNA, I am appaLLed by their ignorance about DNA. RNA and DNA are extremely complicated subjects and better left to the scientists to explain - not the idiots at the swamp.

    Having worked for a DNA expert, I did learn a lot about DNA. The most important thing I learned was that I don't know diddly. What little understanding I do have came from the expert who does know. I know enough to know that I am out of my element, so I stick to the basics, of which my knowledge is very elementary but probably much more than those who have never had a true DNA expert to guide them. Neither jameson nor Lin Wood has a good grip on RNA/DNA, so it's pure BS when it comes from their mouths. I think that is what amazes me the most. Lay people who have little knowledge of DNA acting as if they are experts in it and forming opinions from that ignorance, which are then repeated for the public. It's not only a lie, it ought to be a crime to mislead others that way.

    I am thinking of taking my expert's honors course in genetics/RNA/DNA and diseases. I will then be forced to learn all the terms and understand the building blocks of life, because that is what RNA/DNA is all about. Then, maybe, I can come here and pretend to know even a tiny bit as much as the experts know. Well, perhaps with another eight years to get to the Ph.D. level of the experts.
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  10. #22

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    If I remember correctly, they never did get the 13 markers, they got 9 or 10.
    They got the minimum to do a search.

    I agree W.U. There are people on the boards who claim they know more than the experts. These people claim to know more than the chemists, medical doctors, pathologists,latent print examiners,document examiners, etc. These same people have a high school education at the most and have NEVER worked in any of these fields. (unless you can call selling documents to tabloids work)

  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrina
    If I remember correctly, they never did get the 13 markers, they got 9 or 10.
    They got the minimum to do a search.
    That's right Sabrina.

    Everyone keeps going on about this DNA. It means NOTHING. It's such a small and degraded sample under the finger nails that they can't even submit it to the data bank.

    The DNA in her underwear, same thing. Except like you said Sabrina, it's so small they were only able to get 10 markers. Barely enough to submit.

    Now, why wouldn't there be any stong samples of DNA on her from the "intruder?" How did the DNA get so degraded?

    Let me bring it back around to you.

    There was a 3 page ransom note. With Patsy'isms all over it.

    There was staging.

    The Ramsey lied so much we don't have time to go into it.

    The DNA means NOTHING.
    tgrif@xmission.com
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    I am unaware of anyone who's profited from exploiting the Ramsey murder over a longer period of time, with a greater disregard for the principles of accuracy and fairness, than the production team of Mills and Tracey.They truly do inhabit a different moral universe from real journalists. It's the difference between journalism and propaganda.
    Alan Prendergast,reporter for Westword

  12. #24

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    The Ramseys got lucky that there is this red herring DNA, that's all.

    Many crime scenes have unexplained evidence. A hair, a print, DNA,a fiber.

    We do not live in a pristine world.



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