Name the Most Ramsey Inconsistencies and WIN a 100 AE gift card

Hey Tristan

Wouldn't it take up a lot less bandwidth if we listed the consistencies instead?

We could probably do that on one page.

 

That is just what I was thinking, Sparky. It would be easier to list the issues that didn't have two or three different versions from the Ramseys. I'm still working on it though, leaving out the crap about John leaving the house for hours to check the mail - no one that I know of believed that one in the first place, Sue.

The only real consistancy from that morning is that Fleet went in the basement and looked in the room and there was no one there. Then John went to the basement. We all know what happened next........

RR

 

Also

They also said Patsy was the one that called 911, yup, that was a statement of fact. No inconsistencies there.

OK, can we come up with a few more...I'm having a time with this...

 

Where to begin, where to begin?

Inconsistency number one:

(a) Patsy said she met Glen Meyer at the door herself during the party on the 23rd, and she let him in personally.

(b) But she also said she never met Glen Meyer at the party and had to be told later that he had arrived.

(a) source: DOI, "Later that evening, Glenn Meyer, a single man who rented a room in Joe and Betty Barnhill's basement, showed up looking for them. I invited him in because the Barnhills were good neighbors -- our family dog, Jacques, lived part-time at their house."

(b) source: investigative interview of April 30, 1997, "Um, well, John told me that this man came to the door looking for the Barnhills...I don't remember seeing him, but John said he let him in...And kind of showed him to the Barnhills. You know my dad said he remembers him, this man being there and I think my dad said he invited him to eat something and..."

Inconsistency number two:

(a) Patsy said that during her cancer treatments, everyone she came in contact with had to wear face masks, and she was not allowed to hug JonBenet and Burke who also were only allowed to come as close as the doorway of her bedroom in Boulder, because she was vulnerable to even minor illnesses and had to protect herself from them.

(b) But she also said that in the hospital, when her vulnerability was so low that she was being given blood transfusions to raise her white blood count, JonBenet was allowed to sit on the bed and touch both Patsy and the catheter inserted into her chest.

(a) source: DOI, "Everyone who came into my room wore a surgical mask -- and I wore one myself. JonBenet and Burke could stand at the doorway of my room, but I couldn't hug them as I desperately wanted to do. Since most of my white blood cells had been killed by the chemotherapy, I had virtually no defense against even minor infections."

(b) source: DOI, the very next paragraph, "John would bring JonBenet, who was three-and-a half at the time (WN note: false, JonBenet was one week away from turning four years old at the time of Patsy's first treatment, and the anecdote specified may have been after that first treatment, when JonBenet was fully four), to the hospital and she'd sit on my bed. One day I remember her coming while I was having a blood transfusion to raise my white blood cell count. JonBenet squeezed the little crimson bag and followed the tube that ran up my arm and disappeared under my hospital gown to the Porta-cath in my chest."

Inconsistency number three:

(a) Patsy said that Burke was told, about movies with profanity such as The Blues Brothers (rated R), that he could watch them, but that "we don't use words like this.".

(b) But John uses profanity.

(a) source: DOI, "Susan initiated a 'comedy filmfest.' She began with a bunch of Mel Brooks movies like The Producers, Young Frankenstein, and Blazing Saddles. The Blues Brothers, 1941, and other John Belushi movies were also high on the list. After making sure the boys were told 'we don't use words like this,' she would put on a Belushi movie."

(b) source: investigative interview of August 29, 2000, "Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mr. Ramsey, it is our belief based on forensic evidence that there are hairs that are associated, that the source is the collared black shirt that you sent us that are found in your daughter's underpants, and I wondered if you --" "A. (by John Ramsey) ********. I don't believe that. I don't buy it."

Inconsistency number four:

(a) John said that using JonBenet's death for political gain is "what's wrong in America today.".

(b) But John used JonBenet's death for political gain.

(a) source: DOI, "Even though Owens is the only politician we know of who seemed to use our personal tragedy to garner votes, it is another example of what's wrong in America today."

(b) source: http://www.supportramsey.com and numerous TV appearances and newspaper articles.

More to come.

 

Tricia

Oh goody, February 1st, the day before my birthday ! I could use the loot ! :balloons:

But I can't seem to get your link to work where you want the information. :chicken:

ACandyRose
==================================================

 

"JonBenét" Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation Steve Thomas with Don Davis - PB

Page 185 - 186

Interviewing Patsy Ramsey. It was now 30 April, 1997, and Steve Thomas hadn't seen Patsy Ramsey since the nontestimonial evidence session on December 28, 1996.

1. Patsy confirmed that the last thing JonBenét had eaten was cracked crab at the White's dinner party on December 25, 1996. Steve knew the Whites had not served pineapple that night. but pineapple was found in the victim's stomach, and a bowl of pineapple bearing Patsy's fingerprints was on her breakfast table. Inconsistent.

2. JonBenét had fallen asleep in the car on the way home,
and John Ramsey carried her upstairs where Patsy replaced the child's pants with the long-john bottoms. The white shirt with the sequin star stayed on, she said. This was the first time the detectives had heard she was asleep and carried to bed with a change of clothes.

On December 26, Patsy had told the police that JonBenét
went to sleep wearing the red turtleneck top. Now it was the white one in which the body was found. Inconsistent.

3. Patsy descended the spiral staircase, saw the three pieces of paper laid out side by side on the third rung. She stepped over them, turned around and read the note. Patsy didn't know what it was, and it dawned on her it said something about "We have your daughter" and she ran back upstairs, and JonBenét was gone.

Steve states it was another inconsistent statement, for if she only glanced at the first few lines, how could she have known to tell the 911 dispatcher about the SBTC acronym and the word Victory. Both which were at the bottom of the third page? And how did the intruder know to place the note on the rear staircase used by Patsy?

 

Thanks Tricia

Thanks Tricia :martini:

Also if anybody wants to use my web site to locate information, go for it, the www.acandyrose.com web site is there for EVERYBODY to use.

ACandyRose
================================================

 

Sorry - I posted these on the wrong thread.
I will go back and remove those
Ok - here's a quick list

1. Was JonBenet asleep when they arrived home or awake - two different versions here:

Excerpts from Steve Thomas book, "JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation"
Page 317: With his legs pulled up and his chin on his knees, Burke said he played some Nintendo on the afternoon of December 25. When showed a photograph of the pineapple and bowl, he recognized the bowl. That showed it belonged in the house and not brought in by an intruder. He recalled nothing unusual at the Whites' party other than getting a mild shock from the electric deer fence outside. He said his sister fell asleep in the car on the way home but awakened to help carry presents into the house of a friend. When they got home, JonBenet walked in slowly and walked up the spiral stairs to bed, just ahead of Patsy. That was quite a difference from the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed.
Source: http://www.acandyrose.com/12261996-911.htm


2. did the Rs eagerly agree to questioning?
I guess it depends on your definition of cooperation:

Qutoe: ABCNEWS’ Elizabeth Vargas: In the Ramseys’ own book, which came out a couple of weeks ago, they have a chapter in there called “A Chronicle of Cooperationâ€, where they say, ‘We talked to the police the 26th, the 27th, the 28th. We gave them long interviews, we gave them handwriting samples, DNA samples, pubic hair samples. We gave them everything they wanted.’

Steven Thomas: Their assertion now that they cooperated fully with this investigation, I find absurd. We had to wait four months before we could interview these people surrounding—and ask questions face to face surrounding the death of their daughter.

Vargas: What do they mean then when they say, ‘We talked to police on the 26th, and on the 27th, and on the 28th?’

Thomas: On the 26th they certainly did talk to us during the kidnapping phase of this thing. On the night of the 27th, there was this limited brief exchange, which I guess they’re characterizing as an interview, when in fact the detectives were there to arrange an interview.

Vargas: (VO) as for that physical evidence, what they call non-testimonial evidence, by Colorado law, the police can easily demand samples of handwriting, blood, DNA.

Thomas: They had no choice but to cooperate with the non-testimonial evidence, because in a snap we could have gotten that through a simple affidavit. But what we couldn’t make them do was answer questions. Yeah, they gave us blood, gave us handwriting, gave us hair, but when the case was red hot, when we needed the parents the most in those early critical days, we had to wait four months to be able to ask them the most elementary of questions. End quote

3. Polygraph - Differing views on agreeing to take a polygraph:

Quote: Vargas: (VO) Thomas says it was with great interest that he watched the Ramseys recent round of television interviews.

(From 20/20, ABCNEWS) “Patsy: no one ever asked us. To take a lie detector test.†(From the Today Show, NBC) “John: If I was asked, certainly I would, but the fact is, I was never asked.â€

Thomas: I asked Patsy Ramsey and she volunteers to take a polygraph. I asked John Ramsey in a hypothetical and he gives me sort of a round-about answer and then I follow-up right away. So, will you take a polygraph and I get another roundabout answer. So, for them to have gone public and say, we were never asked to take a polygraph I find absurd.

Vargas: You’re saying that John Ramsey is lying.
*
Thomas: I’m saying John Ramsey was absolutely asked by me if he would take a polygraph and if he is suggesting now that he was never asked, then he’s lying. End Quote

Quoted from :Source: http://abcnews.go.com/onair/GoodMorningAmerica/gma000411Jonbenet_trans2.html

4. Did Patsy go into JonBenet’s room first, or did she find the note then go into her room?

Here comes a discrepancy. According to Steve Thomas’ book she (Patsy) told French that at 5:45 (13-15 minutes after she gets out of bed and does all the other preparations) that she went into JonBenet’s room to awaken her, discovered she was not in her bed, went down the spiral stairs and discovered a note. In DOI there is no mention of going into JonBenet’s room. In PMPT it is said that she told French that after washing out the jumpsuit she went down the stairs and discovered the note. End quote

5. Whose idea was it to go on CNN?
John says it was Fleet White’s idea for them to go to CNN
Source: http://autos.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0207depo1.shtml

Ramsey deposition reveals turmoil
JonBenet's father talks about seeking slaying suspects, estrangement from his former friends
By Jeff Kass
Denver Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer
Ramsey also reveals that a New Year's Day interview on CNN just after the murder was done at the suggestion of family friend Fleet White. White was with Ramsey when he discovered his daughter's body in the basement of the Ramseys' Boulder home.
"Well, the stated reason was that we were getting crucified in the press," Ramsey says. "We ought to let people see who we were."


Who approached whom re: legal council?
The Ramseys have been accused of hiding behind their attorneys. But one to two days after JonBenet's death, Ramsey says that it was an attorney who approached him offering help.

6. did the Rs seek legal council or did legal council seek them?

http://www.buffzone.com/extra/ramsey/1998/fleetletter.html
Open Letter from Fleet & Priscilla White

After JonBenet Ramsey was killed in Boulder nearly twenty months ago, her parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, immediately hired prominent Democrat criminal defense attorneys with the law firm of Haddon, Morgan and Foreman. This firm and its partners have close professional, political and personal ties to prosecutors, the Denver and Boulder legal and judicial communities, state legislators, and high-ranking members of Colorado government, including Governor Roy Romer.

Fleet Russell White, Jr. and Priscilla Brown White
August 17, 1998
Boulder, CO

7. Who’s idea was it to end the friendship?

Quotes from: analysis - Tell-all book tells little
By Chuck Green
Denver Post Columnist

According to the Ramseys, the dispute began when the Whites interpreted the southern hospitality of Ramsey friends "as a horrible display of opulence and ostentation." The Ramseys write that the Whites demeaned their friends and that Fleet White became so hostile toward John's brother that it was "frightening." After arguing with other Ramsey relatives, the book says, the Whites flew back to Denver and the friendship was irreparably fractured.
The Ramseys insist that "it simply wasn't true" that they had suggested to police that the Whites should be considered suspects in JonBeneÚt's murder, which caused their friendships to end.

& 8. Were the pageants nothing more than a few Sunday afternoons?

Regarding JonBenet's competition in child beauty pageants, the parents compared it to young boys' activities such as Little League sports or go-cart racing, or to little girls' participation in gymnastics or dance recitals.
"She loved to perform. She was a natural entertainer who . . . just had an extra level of ham in her," the book says.
Source: http://63.147.65.175/news/jon031500.htm

Quotes from Steve Thomas’ book:

Her hair, which would go dishwater dirty during the Colorado whiter, would blaze back blond in the Michigan sunshine, with some help from a bottle, and she wore it in a ponytail or a braid. Her favorite foods were macaroni and cheese and fresh fruit, and she loved pineapple.

In the summer of 1994 JonBenet was accidentally hit on the left cheek by a golf club swing by her brother, Burke, and her mother rushed the child to see a plastic surgeon, who thought Patsy was overreacting. The doctor apparently didn’t understand the importance of an imperfection on a budding beauty queen.

Her first major win came in Michigan. After a thorough “Pageant scrub†to clean up dirty knees and elbows, a good hair wash, and a French manicure for those dirty nails…..

On many nights, JonBenet would fall asleep watching videotapes of Patsy and Pam in the Miss America pageant. She wanted to stroll that Atlantic City Boardwalk someday, and it was drummed into her that the coveted sash, trophy, and tiara would come only through total dedication. Once, when she balked, her grandmother groused, “JonBenet, you will do it. This is your job. There are not excuses.†A family friend recalled JonBenet being chilly in a restaurant after a pageant and her mother not allowing the child to put on a sweater because “You’re still on show.â€

JonBenet did not need a professional trainer with a couple of former Miss West Virginias in the family. They would be her mentors instead of some professional who night turn her into a rigid automation, with nothing but boring ten – and two-o’clock stances, flashing the collar and cuffs, never touching the dress, and perhaps, her grandmother warned, even using the sleazy shoulder shake that homosexuals taught.

Daddy had money, a great advantage because the pageant world is not for the miserly. Talent lessons were expensive, and her spectacular handmade costumes cost even more. JonBenet would not go out there in K-Mart dresses, and she regularly brought home “Best Wardrobe†titles.

But there were some dark secrets. She had continuing problem with wetting her bed, regressing in her toilet training in the months before her death. Occasionally she would even defecate in the bed and at one point was wetting or soiling her underpants during the day. She would not wipe adequately after bowel movement. This would no do for a beauty queen.

She was truly beautiful but still was only a child beginning to read and write, even though her mother created a more impressive resume on pageant entry forms by claiming that JonBenet played the violin, spoke French, and wanted to be an Olympic ice-skating champion.

Like lots of kids, although she suffered from colds and coughs, her sinus infections were eventually diagnosed as allergic rhinitis,not unlike a problem that had once plagued her father. In 1995 she tripped in a grocery store, landed on her nose, and the doctor treated her with ice and Popsicles. Six months later she fell again bonking herself over the left eye. In the twenty-four months before her death, she visited the doctor eighteen times.

Before Christmas break, her mother arranged to have JonBenet perform as a holiday treat for her classmates, and in pageant finery she sang and danced all day while class after class came through to watch. She went home exhausted. Her lesson in school that day was the perfection and celebrity carried a price. On December 17 she picked up still another crown. Colorado’s Little Miss Christmas.

Six days later, during a party at her parents’ home, a family friend came across a JonBenet who was seldom seen. The child was immaculate in a holiday frock, and her platinum blond hair was done perfectly, but she sat alone on a staircase in the butler’s kitchen, crying softly. The friend sat beside her.
“What’s wrong, honey?â€
Little Miss Christmas sobbed, “I don’t feel pretty.â€

Source: These are some excerpts from Steve Thomas’ book

9. Patsy didn't ask Priscilla what she knew

Source: NE book Page 163-164:
I just sort of remember Priscilla standing in my mother's living room, family room, you know, just kind of like this and saying , "Well, I know what's going on," and she said, "If you would give me a few minutes of your time, I could let you in on some things." And I turned to her and I said, "Priscilla, how can you know so much?" and I said, "I am the mother of this child. And I know nothing."

TH: What was she referring to?

PR: I dont have a clue. I really, I mean, you know, so many times I wish I would have taken her up on it to see what the hell she was talking about. There was just her - you know, it was just this kind of, "I know what's going on here and you don't. And if you give me a few minutes of your time I could clue you in."

10. conflicts of interest?
POLICE ADVISER LINKED TO RAMSEY LAWYER ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY IN JONBENET CASE REPRESENTS BOULDER POLICE ATTORNEY IN MALPRACTICE LAWSUIT.(Local)

Source: Rocky Mountain News (Denver, CO); 9/25/1997; Brennan, Charlie

Byline: Charlie Brennan Rocky Mountain News Staff Writer
BOULDER -- An attorney advising Boulder police in the JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation is being represented in a legal malpractice lawsuit by one of the Ramseys' lawyers, the Rocky Mountain News has learned.
The link between Daniel Hoffman and Lee Foreman is the latest close relationship to surface among lawyers on opposite sides of the case.
Hoffman, a respected Denver attorney and former dean of the University of Denver School of Law, was sued in Boulder District Court last year by Elisabeth Flemmer, ...
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0925jon.htm

 

Things I posted on the wrong thread…continued.

Just expanding on someone else's (Tricia's I think) point here

Does anyone else find it just a little more than odd that on the one hand John feels "That entry place needs to be looked at," - there are officers upstairs dusting for fingerprints - YET "I didn’t look further after finding the open window, but I carefully close it before going back upstairs." - He didn't tell the officers about what he "discovered"? He keeps this bit of information to himself?!

And this:
11.

(Once again, why doesn’t John let the police in on this bit of information??!!)

Sorry, I'm on a roll here. Anyway, the anger seems to be misdirected here:

12. Odd Statements & actions

I wonder what Louie was doing between Sept 1998 and Dec 1999 that made him..umm...change his mind.

13.

Little

 

Yes, Little, I find it more than odd, and I also find it strange that he has never been challenged on this. This part has always irritated the hell out of me, plus everything else you've listed here. How does he get away with it?

 

Great post Little, John's statement has always puzzled me.

After several minutes of watching the vehicle, nothing happens to I finally go back downstairs

How on earth did John, who was willing to do anything to get his daughter back, come to the unbelievable conclusion there were no monitoring gentlemen kidnappers in the STRANGE van? The note said the kidnappers were watching the Rams every move! Don't even talk to a stray dog!

JonBenet gone-kidnappers monitoring parents- kidappers out there somewhere-strange van, never seen it before-nahhhhhhhhh can't possibly have the monitoring kidnappers in it.

Did John look for and not see a 'monitoring kidnappers on board' sign?

Was he watching for a stranger to leap out of the van and yell...'Now John,...don't you be talking to a stray dog. Get back in the house I'll call you soon, k?'

 

You know the cops and FBI can't possibly be interested in just ANY old strange van parked in the alley!

Why bother then with such insignificant details?

Edited to add: Hey let's CORDON off the city, but forget the strange van which is large enough to hold JonBenet and kidnappers!

 

She did see the heart, she didn't see the heart, she didn't do it, maybe Daphne did it, maybe she didn't see it but read about it!!???

Bold emphasis mine.

 

Little,

The heart was one of the main pieces of evidence that convinced me that Patsy knows so much more than she is telling. Thank you for posting all the inconsistent stories she had about the heart.

BTW, this idea is great Tricia!

 

Steve Thomas "JonBenét" PB page 156-157

Unexpectedly, a witness stepped forward and broke both his silence and John Ramsey's story about the timing of the discovery of JonBenét's body.

In a telephone interview, Stewart Long, the boyfriend of John Ramsey's daughter Melinda, and her brother, John Andrew, had made on the morning of December 26. When they arrived at the Ramsey home shortly after 1 pm., they were unaware of anything more than that JonBenét had been kidnapped.

Long said that John Ramsey climbed into a van with him and John Andrew and told them that JonBenét "was with Beth now" The father and son broke down in tears as John Ramsey described how he had discovered the body around eleven o'clock that morning.

I almost dropped the telephone as I reached to make sure the "record" button was pressed on my tape recorder. "When you say eleven o'clock that morning, are you assuming that was Mountain time or Eastern time?"

I'm assuming that was Mountain time. He said eleven o'clock, so I'm assuming he was speaking of his own time reference.

I was blown away. We had just found a credible witness who heard John Ramsey say he'd discovered the body two hours earlier than we previously believed. That punched a big hole in the generally accepted timeline. Eleven o'clock
would have been just about the time John Ramsey temporarily vanished from the sight of Detective Arndt, when she thought he had gone to get the mail. I recalled how Arndt described the marked change in his behavior after he came back, silent, brooding and nervous.

Is it any wonder Steve Thomas was exasperated with this case. Why have we not heard more about this very important inconsistency?

N.B. Stewart Long MD is now the son-in-law of John Ramsey

 

Tricia, you don't need to offer any winning certificate. We are all very eager to have this information listed on the one thread. Makes it so much easier when researching.

 

What Elle said!

Can't I just submit the entire contents of DOI? lol....save time typing it out.