Did John or Patsy fail a polygraph?

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by DocG, Apr 3, 2005.

  1. DocG

    DocG Banned

    from Burden of Proof interview, April 28, 2000:

    COSSACK: Patsy, let me ask you a question. When I was a lawyer and before I would let my clients take a lie detector test, I used to made sure that they could pass their lie detector tests. I know you have very excellent lawyers, I know some of your lawyers. Have you privately taken a lie detector test? either of you? or both of you? and have you passed it already?
    J. RAMSEY: You were asked the question, go ahead.
    P. RAMSEY: I think that is kind of an inappropriate question, if you're so up on -- i think that's lawyer-client privilege and I don't wish to ruin that but...
    J. RAMSEY: Being a lawyer, also recognize that any lawyer would tell their clients: Do not, under any circumstances, take a police polygraph test. They are subjective. We've gotten a number of letters from former polygraphers, we got one the other day from a retired FBI polygrapher, who said I could make the pope look deceptive, if I chose to do so. We got a letter from a state attorney general who said: You are absolutely correct, it must be fair and independent if you are going to do this. Don't give up on the point.

    Patsy is asked whether or not they took a private polygraph and invokes lawyer-client privilege. John then changes the subject.

    Looks to me like they DID take such a polygraph. And one or both must have failed. If they hadn't taken one, they'd have denied it. And if both had passed, they'd have mentioned it. Hmmmmmmmmm.
     
  2. zoomama

    zoomama Active Member

    DocG,

    This like all the other stuff he has done is a great example of JR's mastery of misdirection. And PR so quick with the lawyering up and mentioning the "inappropriatenes" of the question show just how deceptive they really are. It seems they have taken one but we will never know. Somewhere when they did take the test I rmemeber that Patsy had what 3 or 4 cracks at it until her answers were somewhat towards not quilty. How proud they must be of their actions! They can boast they passed with an * telling that they tried 3 or 4 times before getting that end result. Oh what a web we weave when at first we practice to decieve!
     
  3. Little

    Little Member

    zoomama, here are just a few links to articles written about the Ramsey's taking a polygraph. I thought I had one with more information about the number of times Patsy took the test, but as of right now I'm not finding it.

     
  4. DocG

    DocG Banned

    Here's more from the same Burden of Proof interview:

    "VAN SUSTEREN: Let me ask the question -- and don't mean to invade the attorney-client privilege,
    but this whole -- I mean, frankly, I'm with Roger and I don't care how innocent my clients are, I
    never want them to take polygraph tests because people can fail them who are innocent. So it's
    always a problem. But given that, have you -- you know, have you actually done -- have you been
    polygraphed on this particular issue -- either one of you at this point?

    J. RAMSEY: We can't answer that, Greta. That's, I believe, is an attorney-client privilege. What we
    have said is we will take a fair and independent polygraph test.

    P. RAMSEY: There is no question that we are afraid to ask. The truth does not change. If you ask
    me any question, I will, as truthfully as I possibly, humanly can, answer the question. And there's
    nothing I'm afraid to answer.

    COSSACK: John, why do you think it's attorney-client privilege just for the notion of whether or not
    you took the test? I'm not asking you what the results were, but just merely whether or not you
    have taken the test independently.

    P. RAMSEY: We're looking forward to taking the test. Hopefully -- I mean, I see no reason why this
    test, this leading person that has -- whose name has been given to the police chief, Beckner,
    hopefully that -- you know, I can't imagine why he would not accept this person's name. He's
    preeminent. So we look forward to that."


    This time it's John who invokes "attorney-client privilege." And when Cossack presses him on that point again he simply changes the subject.

    Now let me say a few words regarding attorney-client privilege. That is something an attorney invokes, NOT a client. The attorney's job is to protect the client above all else, so if their attorney had been asked that question he'd have every right to invoke attorney-client privilege. When the CLIENT is asked, however, there is NO attorney-client privilege to protect. The attorney is out of the picture at this point, as the question is being addressed directly to the client. The situation is extremely awkward for the Ramseys and is a good example of why lawyers strongly dissuade their clients from engaging in this sort of interview.

    What John is really invoking is much closer to his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. But since this is not a court of law and he is not under oath, I don't think that would apply either. So what it all boils down to is that John and Patsy are not going to answer that question simply because they don't WANT to. And of course no one can force them to.

    But by the same token, no one can force US not to draw the OBVIOUS conclusions: Patsy and John must, indeed have taken a lawyer supervised polygraph, otherwise they would simply have denied it rather than clumsily try to invoke "lawyer-client privilege." And that polygraph must have gone badly for them or, again, they'd have no problem sharing the results with the public. In fact, you can be sure they'd have trumpeted those results to the public the day after the test.

    My best guess is that John must have flunked a question regarding his knowledge of who wrote the note. Which is why that question was NOT included in the Gelb polygraph HE took and WAS included in the one Patsy took.

    Attorney-client privilege my eye. The Ramseys are not only extraordinarily deceptive, they are really REALLY bad at it.
     
  5. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    I find them quite convincing.
     
  6. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    :rolling:
    Now BobC we know you have a 'thing' for Miss Thang....one little 'ole bat of Patsy's KMart makeupped eyelashes and you'd believe anything she'd tell you....like how Patsy doesn't bathe and she's fond of wearing the same clothes two days in a row....especially when she wants to impress someone important, say a future son in law.
     
  7. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    Let's call a spade a spade...

    Let's just come right out and say it: they paid for their own polygraph and STILL couldn't pass it. "Inconclusive?" Inconclusive, my eye!
     
  8. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin


    Love the way the examiner words this. It would be interesting to know what the "relevant questions" were. Did he ask, "Did you eat cracked crab at the Whites Christmas Eve?" If he asked John and Patsy, "Did you kill your daughter, JonBenet?" they both probably could have said "no" and shown no deception, if neither of them knows which one killed her. IOW, if Patsy delivered the blow to the head and JR finished her off with the strangulation, who could say who was responsible for the lethal action, since both actions could have resulted in death. I would like to know if the examiner asked both of them, "Do you know what happened to JonBenet," "Do you know who struck JonBenet?", "Do you know who put the garotte around JB's throat?", "Did you conspire with (John Ramsey) (Patsy Ramsey) to stage the crime scene?"

    Without knowing what the "relevant questions" are, that statement is worthless to me.

    There is no question the Ramseys took a polygraph, since they appeared on TV with their smarmy attorney, Lin Wood, and the polygrapher, Ed Gelb, crowing about how they had taken and passed the polygraph. As much as I don't believe much if anything the Ramseys say, I doubt very much Gelb would say he administered the test if he didn't. There have been stories, though, about prior polygraphers who could not get positive results from the Ramseys or who had results of Inconclusive several times. We never heard about those results from the Rams or Wood.
     
  9. Elle

    Elle Member

    Can't add a thing to this post WY. These are the question I would want put before John and Patsey Ramsey, for sure! Not concocted ones which produce a positive response.
     
  10. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    Yes!

    Way to go, WY! Is there any doubt why I joined?

    More importantly, what were the "irrelevant questions?"
     
  11. Elle

    Elle Member

    I think you've given us a good refresher course here, Little. Thank you!
     
  12. sue

    sue Member

    ::yes::
     
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