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  1. #85
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    KK: Elle, I think there were a few pages "missing" in that section of the pad, though one was found, as Cherokee mentioned. But the fact that the pages were from a sequence many pages into the pad not before used enabled LE to count those actually "missing" from the tears at the top. I forget the specific number
    Yes, I remember there were a few sheets missing KK in the 20's or something like that. Steve Thomas wrote about those in his book, but Patsy forgot to tear out a few pages that had one or two words at the top. So ridiculous! This person had all the time in the world to waste time after a killing. Not the normal routine of a killer, I'm thinking.

    Did LE have to be hit over the head to put it all together, before an arrest was made? Once again we have D.A. Alex Hunter to thank for thwarting this. We all know that the evidence leads back to the Ramseys and that stupid twit Alex Hunter would not authorise their arrest. He should be charged himself for negligence in this case.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  2. #86

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    Exactly Elle, and I think that it's that point that negates (in my mind at least) John actually helping Patsy with the staging. If he was in on the staging then he was in on the ransom note writing and I simply can't see him having anything to do with such a crazy note.

    You would think that as soon as he saw it he MUST have figured out that it had Patsy written all over it. How could he not see that? They had been married for years and most married couples are very familiar with each other's writing style. I would guess that Patsy's habit of acronyms and exclamation points would have stuck out like a sore thumb.

    But then, if he realised Patsy had written it, and that it was on notepaper that they had in their house, why did he give it up so willingly to LE? Maybe because initially he had a wife huffing and puffing and shouting etc, then police and everyone else arriving and he really didn't think through the consequences of that.

    If John truly knew nothing about the night's events and he woke up to this chaotic scenario, it would have been a pretty confusing crazy time for him, so maybe those few slip ups were genuine.

  3. #87

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    If John truly knew nothing about the night's events and he woke up to this chaotic scenario, it would have been a pretty confusing crazy time for him, so maybe those few slip ups were genuine.
    Zotto, this is consistent with one of my two favorite scenarios - Patsy did it all by herself (my other is Patsy did it because she found John with JonBenet and went batsh*t; then later, they staged everything together).

    John had probably spent time in this marriage listening to the drama queen rage about this or that, and his usual way of dealing with that was to let it go. So when he woke up on the 26th, he wasn't prepared to take charge of the situation.

    Slowly over the morning he began to figure things out, and he had to make a few decisions. I believe that the number one decision he made was to protect Burke, the child he still had, and the best way to do that was to let Patsy's story play out. And our John is believed to be somewhat cold, so I think that one of the calculations he made was that he wouldn't have to keep this up for too long, because Mrs. Ramsey wasn't long for this world. (She even brought this up in the early CNN press conference - I'll be with you soon, JonBenet.) Who knew that Miss Stage IV would be a miracle case!!!

    This is likely, I believe, whether John was in on it or not. I think the note may suggest he was - "It's up to you now, John!" - but I'm not sure.

    At any rate, KoldKase etc are right - Alex Hunter had to see that this note screams "I am Patsy Ramsey" and he sucks for not arresting her.

    Looking forward to your next installment, Cherokee!!!

  4. #88
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    Changed this post. Couldn't delete (?). Sorry!


    Elle
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  5. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zotto
    Exactly Elle, and I think that it's that point that negates (in my mind at least) John actually helping Patsy with the staging. If he was in on the staging then he was in on the ransom note writing and I simply can't see him having anything to do with such a crazy note.

    You would think that as soon as he saw it he MUST have figured out that it had Patsy written all over it. How could he not see that? They had been married for years and most married couples are very familiar with each other's writing style. I would guess that Patsy's habit of acronyms and exclamation points would have stuck out like a sore thumb.

    But then, if he realised Patsy had written it, and that it was on notepaper that they had in their house, why did he give it up so willingly to LE? Maybe because initially he had a wife huffing and puffing and shouting etc, then police and everyone else arriving and he really didn't think through the consequences of that.

    If John truly knew nothing about the night's events and he woke up to this chaotic scenario, it would have been a pretty confusing crazy time for him, so maybe those few slip ups were genuine.
    Yes, Zotto, the handing over of her notepad baffled me too, which may have been through genuine confusion as you state here, but with Patsy and John Ramsey, the question is always at the back of my mind, that every move they made, they had carefully gone over it with a fine tooth comb. The end result for them was in their favour.

    The Ramseys couldn't even be charged with an accidental death here, due to the garrote which portrayed a pedophile sex game gone wrong, and yet when I think of the garrote, all I can think of is Delmar England taking one look at the picture of this amateur contraption, and with his expertise in knots, he knew it was staged. This was before he even got involved much deeper into this case.

    http://www.acandyrose.com/05262001delmaranalysis2.htm
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  6. #90

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    Oh, you guttah scum are cooking!

    I have long leaned to Patsy's father being the family's "dirty little secret." I've listed some of those stronger reasons on the thread about Patsy's bad memory.

    The problem I have with Patsy doing it all is the garrote. I know it's possible, but it's just too well constructed for someone who has no idea to LUCK OUT on making it for some pseudo-kidnapper staging for me to not wonder, how did she know that? John--many ways I can think of for him to come up with that thing quickly: navy training, hunting stuff, sailing stuff. But then Patsy sailed along with John, didn't she?

    Or maybe Patsy was the one something like that was used on when she was a child...? Det. Haney wasn't asking her about her or her sisters being sexually abused for nothing, was he?

    I bet you money LE knows exactly what happened that night...and why.

    I was also looking at a timeline today, and had forgotten about Patsy calling Dr. Beuf three times on Dec. 17--no one knows why but Patsy and the good Dr.

    JAR left town on Dec. 19th. Grandpa Paugh left suddenly on Christmas Eve, standby flight, arriving in Atlanta the same night, with JAR arriving in Atlanta that night, as well. Was Grandpa Paugh at the party on the 23rd? Do we know? That's the three days before the murder evening when 911 was accidently called.

    Or was Patsy holding something over John's head about those prior vaginal injuries. Did she catch John at something she was holding over his head? Or did she catch JAR? Burke? Or was she angry at John for something else?


    Whatever, I agree with you, Zotto, that John had to have the wheels turning in his head when he read that note if he already wasn't in on it. He had to know the references it took the rest of us years to find out.

    OK, we'll see what Patsy has to tell us in Cherokee's continuing analysis.

    Very strange goings on in the Ramsey family that Christmas. Maybe not by themselves, but add in a child murder with hideous violence and molestation...and it's worth considering these things in that context.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  7. #91
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    The problem I have with Patsy doing it all is the garrote. I know it's possible, but it's just too well constructed for someone who has no idea to LUCK OUT on making it for some pseudo-kidnapper staging for me to not wonder, how did she know that? John--many ways I can think of for him to come up with that thing quickly: navy training, hunting stuff, sailing stuff. But then Patsy sailed along with John, didn't she?
    It isn't too well constructed at all KK. Anyone who took Macramé could have done this. I have made more complicated knots in Macramé than those on this so called garrote. I agree with Delmar England. Any child could have made this. Patsy I believe was into all arts and crafts.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  8. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase

    The problem I have with Patsy doing it all is the garrote. I know it's possible, but it's just too well constructed for someone who has no idea to LUCK OUT on making it for some pseudo-kidnapper staging for me to not wonder, how did she know that? John--many ways I can think of for him to come up with that thing quickly: navy training, hunting stuff, sailing stuff. But then Patsy sailed along with John, didn't she?

    Yep, but remember how quickly Patsy could think on her feet?...like when she was with John and his ex-girlfriend came to the door? Thinking quickly and making things up as she went I would imagine was pretty easy for Patsy. Even writing the ransom note, she didn't really start losing her composure until getting towards the end. I don't think fashioning a garrote would have been too difficult for a creative, arty person like Patsy.

    She decided early on that offence was the best defence...maybe with the exception of being asked about being sexually abused....as you said...that REALLY took her aback and she could barely speak.

  9. #93

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    It isn't too well constructed at all KK. Anyone who took Macramé could have done this. I have made more complicated knots in Macramé than those on this so called garrote. I agree with Delmar England. Any child could have made this. Patsy I believe was into all arts and crafts.
    You are right, Elle. Actually it's kind of sloppy, but it's macrame. The part where she attached the cord to the paintbrush is a variation on a half-hitch knot, which was then covered up with several over-knots to secure the loose end. The knots on the "garrotte" and hand ties look like Lark's head knots used to anchor your macrame work to a dowel or ring or broken paintbrush. The cord photos are on acandyrose.com where the autosy report is. (BTW the cord looks to me like drapery notions cord you can buy at the fabric store.)

  10. #94
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    Wombat and Zotto,

    Patsy Ramsey and JonBenét both had Navy blue jackets with white trim. These jackets with the white trim have been discussed many times. You may have seen them (?). Will try and post them later.

    Patsy was a mother who liked JonBenét to dress like her, and there is a photo of JonBenét on the back of the Ramsey book "Death of Innocence" wearing her navy jacket, and this looks as if Patsy trimmed JB's jacket herself, with this flat braided trim, which goes over the edge of JonBenét's lapels. This is the same type of trim used for the amateur garrote.

    Patsy's Jacket looks like it was bought with the trim, not hand sewn like JB's.

    Glad you could even name the Macrame knots Wombat, thank you! I was never that good at that part, but I did make plant hangers.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  11. #95

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    Well, Elle, it's like this - Hi, my name is wombat, and I am an addicted knitter who has also dabbled in macrame - also lots of crochet and sewing.

    I remember you bringing up those jackets before, and I didn't agree that the trim could be the same as the garrotte cord, because trim cord (and braid and piping) comes with a flap of muslin along the side to allow it to be sewn into a seam. When you make a garment from scratch, this is what is commonly done.

    HOWEVER, drapery and macrame cords are sold plain without the muslin. SO, if somebody already had a jacket that needed to be modified to match another, you'd use that and hand-sew it on.

    I'm thinking I'll bet the $118,000 KoldKase saved me that this is where the cord came from, Elle.

    I further bet the cops never looked at this stuff, by the way. Too girly. Plus mothers never kill their daug hters.

  12. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat
    Well, Elle, it's like this - Hi, my name is wombat, and I am an addicted knitter who has also dabbled in macrame - also lots of crochet and sewing.

    I remember you bringing up those jackets before, and I didn't agree that the trim could be the same as the garrotte cord, because trim cord (and braid and piping) comes with a flap of muslin along the side to allow it to be sewn into a seam. When you make a garment from scratch, this is what is commonly done.

    HOWEVER, drapery and macrame cords are sold plain without the muslin. SO, if somebody already had a jacket that needed to be modified to match another, you'd use that and hand-sew it on.

    I'm thinking I'll bet the $118,000 KoldKase saved me that this is where the cord came from, Elle.
    Ooooh, Wombat ... I'm betting SOMEBODY'S $118,000 you are absolutely right!

    You are obviously know what you're talking about, and it all fits. One of the navy jackets was made by scratch with the trim cord with muslin flap sown into the seam. The other navy jacket was store bought, and the plain drapery/macrame cord was hand-sewed on top of the fabric. iViola! Matching mother and daughter navy jackets with white trim!

    "And guess what, there's some of that plain drapery/macrame cord left over. I'll just toss it in my little paint tote here as I might use it to hang some of my pictures later."

    I also agree wholeheartedly about Patsy and the macrame knot on the "garrote" cord. A couple of years ago, I was looking through a book on different knots, and it hit me how similar the macrame "half-hitch" was to the garrote knot. I'm glad we have a macrame expert such as yourself who can verify the garrote knot was NOT sophisticated, and that Patsy could have easily fashioned it from her macrame knowledge. You were even able to tell how she modified it. Fantastic.



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