25 to 40 minutes

From NE's JonBenet: The Police Files-

pg. 138
TH: So you wake up and you're not sure of the time. Did you happen to look at the clock?
PR: Not - I mean, not to the minute, no. I mean - no. Sometime between 5:30 and six.

pp. 141-142
TH: So you say you put your makeup on?
PR: (Nodding.)
TH: What brands of makeup do you wear?
PR: Different kinds.
TH: Do you know what it would have been at that time?
PR: Probably the foundation was probably either Clinique or Chanel, my sister sells Chanel and she has samples of everything. So she keeps us in samples... Just guessing, I don't know.
TH: Foundation. Okay. Are there other things that you put on -
PR: Blush, lipstick. I probably really didn't do a terrific job. I mean just putting, get a little bit on and go, you know.
TH: Okay. And how long do you think all that in the bathroom took?
PR: Oh, 20, 30 minutes.
TH: And what -
TD: Is that a different brand of blush that you put on? Is that the same Clinique?

Patsy said that she woke up sometime between 5:30 and 6:00, so let's make it 5:31 a.m. She said it took her 20 to 30 minutes to apply her makeup. This would make the time 5:51 a.m., at the earliest, when she finished and she still has to do the laundry thing which, on pg 145, she said took her 5 to 10 minutes. We haven't even gotten to the going down the spiral staircase, coming across the note, calling for John, etc... And this is all supposed to take place in 1 minute?!!! With the time frames Patsy gave for the makeup and laundry tasks, with 25 minutes being the shortest and 40 minutes being the longest, that 911 call couldn't have been made until 5:57 a.m., at the earliest. I think when DeMuth heard her say it took her 20 to 30 minutes to put on her makeup, bells must have gone off in his head since he intercepted with an inane question about her blush.

Jams says these interviews prove the Ramseys' innocence? HA!

-Tea

 

I've wondered previously whether the comments about her make-up were just inane questions. They may have been, but I thought that there must have been a reason that Tom Haney actually specifically asked Patsy what brand of make-up she wore. He asked it of her foundation and also of her blush, so I wonder if make-up was found on JonBenet's clothes or skin, in a place you wouldn't expect to find it such as her face. Maybe this is one bit of evidence we don't know about? I can't think of any other reason that he would try and get specific about the actual brand of make-up.

I'm sure this point was discussed a long time ago and typical of my memory, I've forgotten what the conclusion was.

 

Gosh - yes. I think I'd find it odd if a man asked me about the brand of make-up I wore! Then again - I have my brands of make-up that I like and I stick to them. If traces of my make-up were found on my child, they could have been deposited there any time since the last time they were washed. I'm not sure that would be evidence UNLESS the make-up was found on the garotte or duct tape and that it could be proved it wasn't secondary transfer.

Wouldn't that be a smoking gun?

 

You would think so Jay, but I would have reckoned that Patsy's jacket fibres twisted in the knot of the garotte would have been a smoking gun too! She justified those by saying she threw herself on top of JonBenet when she lay on the floor upstairs....although how on earth she got away with that when the knot was at the back of JB's neck I have no idea!

Yeah Tricia, I could be way off base, but it just seemed odd to me that he would get specific about the brand of make-up.

 

Whatever they found Zotto, didn't assist in her arrest (?).

 

The problem with fibres though is that they can't be as specific about their source as they could be with make-up. I would think they could be certain about a conclusive match with make-up.

Thinking about those fibres. Patsy wore the jacket the day before and Patsy put Jonbenet to bed. There could legitiamtely be fibres from that jacket on the bed and on Jonbenet which could therefore have gotten onto the cord and into the knot. That's what a defence lawyer would argue and the jury would have to give BOD on it (I think). Patsy's make-up inside the knot might be harder to explain - especially if it were a miniscule trace which could be secondary transfer.

I do think you are right though. I think there may well be make-up evidence which has never been made public. I cannot think why else Patsy would be asked about branding. Although it seems odd that they would wait until the interviews to ask that. On second thoughts, it's maybe the kind of question they needed to chuck in casually in a face to face. If they put it in writing to a guilty person, it would tip them off about evidence and they would lie and change brands.

Did they take make-up in evidence?

 

The possibility exists that the red drawing on JonBenet's palm was done not with a marker from the house but with a lip liner pencil. This would explain the red color (Patsy always wearing red lipstick). It would tend to explain why the red did not smear in the presence of JonBenet's hand oils, as marker would have. Both Chanel and Clinique make lip liners, so it could have credibly been in Patsy's makeup drawer. This would explain why there have been no leaks even from sources friendly to the family that the red color source used to draw on JonBenet's palm had to have come from an intruder. It would be an interesting reason why Patsy might have initially slipped up in saying that she saw the heart, and then the next day backed off that statement, since it would be in her interests to distance herself from the material the heart was made of. And if you think like Alex Hunter, you would say that just because Patsy's lip liner was found on JonBenet's palm, it does not mean Patsy killed her, thus accounting for a lack of indictment.

 

Well I don't know about thinking like Alex Hunter, but I think that if it was Patsy's lip liner which was used to draw a heart in Jonbenet's palm then it would definitely point AWAY from Patsy as the killer! That would sound very more like a stitch up to me. Who in their right mind would use such a very personal item as a lip-liner when they could use something which anyone (intruder included) could have picked up in the hallway and used? I keep my makeup in our en-suite and pop a lipstick into my handbag when we go out.

OTOH, JonBenet may have had her very own make-up - kept in her own room or en-suite.

 

On the other hand, since we know DeMuth ended up working for Bynum's law firm, maybe he was just making small talk to steer the investigators away from getting anywhere. I will never trust that man.

You know what I find very odd about the red heart on JonBenet's hand? John and JonBenet and Fleet White and the White daughter all played in the floor at the White's that night, as John himself said, with BEADS, MAKING JEWELRY.

Condidering how closely one works with the hands in such tedious crafting, if JonBenet had a heart already on her hand, wouldn't ONE of them have noticed?

Of course, John and Patsy both say they never saw it...other than when Patsy saw it "that morning"...OOPS...NO SHE DIDN'T!

I'd really like to know if Fleet and Daphne both said they didn't see it, either.

If no one saw it before JonBenet left the Whites, or if someone at the White's home KNEW it wasn't on her hand that night, it had to get on her hand AT THE RAMSEY'S HOME THAT NIGHT.

Did LE ever ask any of the children who played with JonBenet Christmas Day at her house if they saw the heart? What about Burke, did he see it?

Did we ever hear if they analyzed the red marker on her hand? I know it's Boulder, but geez! Surely they did that and searched the home for a match. Sharpie pen? If there was no match found to anything in the home, still seems like they could find out what the mark was made with. What was it?

Or is this one of those pieces of evidence of which we have never heard the results?

 

Icedtea4me, I have yet to see anyone reconcile the timeline with John and Patsy's story of that morning before they "found" the ransom note.

In the space of that 20 or so minutes from when Patsy woke up, she dressed, put on makeup, did something to her hair, went to the area outside JonBenet's room and did some laundry, including washing out a jumpsuit and putting some clothes into a plastic bag for the trip, she said. Then Patsy walked down the spiral steps and jumped over the ransom note, turned around and read a few lines, then jumped BACK UP, missing that ransom note step again, ran to JonBenet's room to check for her, screamed for John, who came running in his undies, then John ran down the steps, also jumping over the ransom note step, or not, depending which version they're telling. Then he read the ransom note. Somewhere in here, they checked Burke's room, checked the house "a bit," and then John laid the ransom note on hall floor outside his office and got on his knees in his undies, read the note again, and told Patsy to call 911.

Could they do all that in 20 minutes? Sure, if they ran and ran and hurried and hurried...it's possible. Would it take YOU more than a few minutes to determine that a note with childish writing you found on the steps in the morning before you even had your coffee was really from a kidnapper, knowing you'd tucked your child into bed hours earlier, you didn't hear a peep all night, and you had two kids and a house large enough to require more than a few minutes to check for a kid hiding in a game? Wouldn't you just go ahead and call 911 and all your friends and pastor to come over BEFORE you even asked your other child if he heard anything, or before you even stopped to THINK ABOUT THIS, DEATH THREATS AND ALL?

The Ramseys' story does not hold water.

 

Not to mention using the bathroom, washing hands and face, and brushing teeth. What gets me is this - Why in the world would Patsy say it took her 20 to 30 minutes to apply her makeup? Was it her way of saying "You know damn good and well this couldn't have happened like I said it did"?

Yes, it's possible, but highly improbable. If she got all that stuff done in that amount of time, I'm surprised she didn't sprain her ankle running down that spiral staircase.

Their getting Burke out of the house before he can be asked by the cops there if he saw or heard anything and his mom and dad not asking him is a big red flag that something is terribly wrong.