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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    In a World With Too Much Crime

    Default Ramsey Case - a summary of the evidence

    Please post any pertinent Ramsey case information about the DNA, fiber evidence, phone calls, etc. that can be used in a concise summary of the crime.

    Also include discussion of the Ramsey's behavior.

    • Timeline for Patsy getting up and getting everyone ready
    • Timeline for flight to Michigan
    • Lawyering-up
    • John calling pilot as soon as body was "found"
    • Not waking Burke
    • Burke leaving house with no apparent reaction to his sister's death
    • Burke leaving a police-protected house to go to the unprotected White's house.
    • Calling friends when Ransom Note said it would result in JonBenet's death
    Last edited by Cherokee; May 30, 2012, 3:58 pm at Wed May 30 15:58:07 UTC 2012.
    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenét. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

    Bring all our Missing Home
    Prayers for our military who are protecting our freedom.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2003


    First mention of the red turtleneck top

    Officers reconstructed some of the timeline of the previous night from the parents recollections. John Ramsey said they returned from the party at ten o"clock and read to both children before they went asleep. He confirmed to Detective Arndt that he had read to JonBenét after tucking her in. This statement was later denied. ... ... ...

    Patsy said that JonBenét went to sleep wearing long white underwear and a red turtleneck top. Source: Steve thomas "JonBenét" PB Page 25

    Then we found some nuggets of useful information in the written replies to the sixteen questions that Detective Arndt had faxed to the Ramseys.

    It was obvious that lawyers wrote the answers, which were crafted in stilted legalese... ... ...

    The Question: "What was JonBenét wearing when she went to bed on Christmas Day night? was obliquely answered: "The best recollection is that she was wearing long underwear pants and a polo shirt when she went to bed." It did not mention the color the shirt was - the white one on the body, or the red, as Patsy had said on December 26. It did not mention the word turtleneck, which she had told the police on the morning the body was found.
    It was an extremely evasive answer to a simple question. Source: Steve Thomas "JonBenét" PB Page 122

    Dr. Myers enters Ramsey home. Pronounces Jonbenet dead. She is wearing a white top with a silver sequined star in front, and longjohns. Source: "JonBenet" by Steve Thomas - paperback -Page 39

    On the bathroom counter lay a balled up child's red turtleneck sweater. Although Patsy said JonBenet had gone to bed wearing a red turtleneck, the body was discovered in a white pullover top, the same one she had worn the evening before, to the Whites Christmas Party.Source: "JonBenet" by Steve Thomas - paperback -Page40

    Nedra Paugh becomes evasive when asked by Steve thomas about bed wetting history of JonBenet. Patsy had told Police the child had gone to sleep in a red turtleneck although the body was found in a white top. The turtleneck had been discovered rolled up on the bathroom sink. Source: "JonBenet" Steve Thomas - paperback -Page 102

    Interview with Patsy Ramsey - Steve Thomas states hearing for the first time, JonBenét was carried upstairs asleep by John Ramsey. Patsy replaced the child's pants with long-john bottoms. The white shirt with the star stayed on, she said. On December 26 Patsy had told the police that JonBenét went to sleep wearing the red turtleneck top, which was later found balled up on the bathroom sink. Now it was the white one in which the body was found. Inconsistent. Source: "JonBenét" Steve Thomas - paperback Page 185

    Later JonBenét awakened after wetting the bed, as indicated by the plastic sheets, the urine stains, the pull-up diaper package hanging half-way out of a cabinet, and the balled-up turtleneck found in the bathroom. I concluded that the little girl had worn the red turtleneck to bed, as her mother originally said, and that it was stripped off when it got wet. Source: "JonBenét" Steve Thomas - paperback Page 319

    .................................................. .................................................. .........................................

    JonBenet's sleepwear Christmas night(?)

    SOURCE - Police Files - National Enquirer
    Det Trujillo asks what JonBenét wore to bed. Patsy states JonBenét wore a shirt from the Gap - white with rhinestoned star. States JonBent rebelled about wearing a red sweater to match her Mom, and they had a little riff about that.
    Source: NE Police Files Page 47- 48

    Patsy confirms for Det. Steve Thomas the white top worn to the White's party was left on

    JonBenét for sleeping in, with white thermal bottoms.
    Source:NE Police Files - Page 52

    Patsy tells Det. Trujillo she gets up, gets dressed and stops at the laundry area near JonBenét's room, and fusses with a red stained jumpsuit on the ironing board, which she plans to attend to when she returns. Source: NE Police Files - Page 62 - 63

    Last edited by Elle_1; January 21, 2006, 5:25 pm at Sat Jan 21 17:25:49 UTC 2006.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2003

    Default Fibers from duct tape over JonBenet's mouth

    CNN Transcript - Burden of Proof

    Former Boulder Detective Steve Thomas 'Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation'

    Aired April 18, 2000 - 12:30 p.m. ET

    GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, CO-HOST: The JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation, this time from the investigator's eyes. Today on BURDEN OF PROOF: former Boulder Detective Steve Thomas, who is author of a controversial book about the murder.

    VAN SUSTEREN: What about the fact that the body was moved? Did that make it virtually impossible to get clues from the body?

    THOMAS: Well, let me give you an example, and that's an excellent point. As you know, on the adhesive side of the duct tape, which was removed from the victim's mouth, there were four fibers that were later determined to be microscopically and chemically consistent with four fibers from a piece of clothing that Patsy Ramsey was wearing, and had that piece of tape been removed at autopsy, and the integrity of it maintained, that would have made, I feel, a very compelling argument. But because that tape was removed, and dropped on the floor, a transference argument could certainly be potentially made by any defense in this case, and that's just one example of how a compromised crime scene may, if not irreparably, have damage the subsequent investigation.
    Last edited by Elle_1; January 15, 2006, 3:10 pm at Sun Jan 15 15:10:00 UTC 2006.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2003


    0n the 25 December, John heads for the airport to load Christmas gifts going to Michigan, and to check on the plane which would be piloted by Mike Archuleta.

    Returning from the aiport, the children were called in to get ready for the White's party. Patsy wanted JonBenét to wear a red turtleneck with her black velvet pants, so that mother and daughter would be dressed alike. JonBenét rebelled, and had chosen her own outfit. Patsy gave in and JonBenét wore her own outfit complete with boots trimmed with animal print.

    SOURCE: DEATH OF INNOCENCE by Patsy and John Ramsey. Page 7 HB

    N.B. Patsy does mention on p47 Police files above that JonBenét wore the white top with the star from The Gap.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  5. #5


    2000 Atlanta Interviews:

    JR's Israeli sweater fibers found on JB's external crotch area and in the crotch of her panties.

    PR's sweater fibers found entwined in the garotte as well as on the duct tape, blanket and paint tote.

    This fiber evidence was revealed for the first time in these interviews. Debate has been ongoing whether this evidence is valid or just lies told to the R's to coerce confession on the basis that these were police interviews. I have argued for years that the facilitators of these interviews were attorneys, i.e., Michael Kane and Barry Levin, and not cops, and that attorneys do not have the liberty to lie in interviews per Bar ethics rules as do the cops.

  6. #6


    * Sack of Rope

    Smit quote: Sack of rope: A sack of rope was found in the guest bedroom. The Ramseys said they don't know where it came from. "Was this something left behind by the killer? Why would they have a rope in a guest room?"

    * Page 245 & 246 NE book interview discuss Burke & John Andrew having rope. Also Patsy talks about how they burn the ends of a rope to keep it from fraying etc.

    * Fiber evidence:
    Lou Smit says: there was a lot of fiber evidence that did not belong to the Ramseys.

    Quote: But what about fibers from Patsy Ramsey’s jacket that police say were in the paint tray and on the sticky side of duct tape covering JonBenet’s mouth?

    It’s incriminating, Smit says, but not the whole story: “You just can’t rely on fiber evidence because fibers could come off the jacket or something similar to the jacket, another item of clothing. Don’t have to be that particular jacket. Fibers are fibers.”

    What’s more, says Smit, there were also dozens of fibers that didn’t come from the Ramseys, and Smit is unaware of a single case in which a parent used a garrote like this to kill a child.” End Quote

    There was a lot of fiber evidence that did belong to the Ramseys and was also unmistakably woven into the crime scene


    * Four red acrylic fibers found on the duct tape that covered the child's mouth were consistent with fibers from a blazer worn by Patsy Ramsey on Christmas, Thomas wrote. Detectives also wanted a search warrant for a pair of fur boots Patsy Ramsey was seen wearing that night because the FBI lab identified a possible beaver hair on the tape, but prosecutors never approved the warrant. Source: denver.rockymountainnews....homa.shtml

    (Fibers similar to sweater Patsy Ramsey owned, and reportedly wore Christmas night 1996, were found on the duct tape John Ramsey says was covering JonBenet’s mouth. John says he left the tape on the floor in the room where JonBenet’s body was found. Patsy Ramsey placing her body on JonBenet’s body when it was upstairs can not account for fibers discovered on this piece of evidence that was left one floor down.

    Similar fibers were reported to have been entwined? in the ligature on JonBenet’s neck.

    Similar fibers were in Patsy’s paint tray.

    The Ramsey’s private investigators say there were other fibers from the home they feel might not belong to the Ramseys. Were any of those fibers found on JonBenet’s body, the ligature, the duct tape? The fiber evidence has strong ties to John and Patsy Ramsey, and was in a location which would suggest very close contact to JonBenet when the tape & ligature were put in place.

    The clothing was not collected for some months … Patsy Ramsey’s sister Pam was permitted to remove items from the home ...)

    Couric: “There were reports that there were red fibers found on JonBenet that matched a sweater Patsy Ramsey was wearing.”

    Smit: “Patsy Ramsey was sitting on the same blanket, probably, that night, when she changed JonBenet’s clothing."

    Transcript source May 02, 2001 NBC Today Show Part 3

    Smit seems to be implying that the fiber exchange occurred when, as the Ramseys stated, a sleeping JonBenet was put to bed and she was dressed by Patsy at that time, however, the flip side of that point is that there is a theory that a dead JonBenet was wiped down and her clothing was changed - JonBenet’s blanket was in the room where her body was discovered - none of this excludes Patsy - that same scenario places her at the scene.

    *In contrast to the intruder theory, the accident/cover-up theory provides a framework that appears to fit the publicly available evidence, and the most significant secret evidence revealed in the transcripts of the interviews with the Ramseys conducted in their attorney's office in Atlanta in August of 2000.
    In the course of the interview with Patsy Ramsey, prosecutors asserted that investigators had found:
    • Fibers on the sticky side of the duct tape John Ramsey removed from his daughter's mouth when he says he discovered her body in the basement wine cellar that are "identical" to fibers in the red sweater-jacket Patsy was photographed wearing at a Christmas dinner at a friends' house the previous day.
    • Fibers from the same type of jacket in the paint tray from which a brush was taken that was used to help fashion the ligature found around JonBenet's neck.
    • Fibers from the same type of jacket "tied into" the ligature.

    3 MR. LEVIN: I think that is
    4 probably fair. Based on the state of the
    5 art scientific testing, we believe the fibers
    6 from her jacket were found in the paint
    7 tray, were found tied into the ligature found
    8 on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket
    9 that she is wrapped in, were found on the
    10 duct tape that is found on the mouth, and
    11 the question is, can she explain to us how
    12 those fibers appeared in those places that
    13 are associated with her daughter's death.
    14 And I understand you are not going to answer
    15 those.

  7. #7

    Default timeline

    Quote: The story said that Patsy Ramsey gave conflicting statements to police.

    She first said that she awoke about 5:45 a.m. Dec. 26 and went to JonBenet's room to wake her up, but discovered she was missing. She found the ransom note as she ran down the stairs, Patsy Ramsey told police.

    She later said she was walking downstairs to the kitchen to make coffee when she found the note, and then raced upstairs to discover that her daughter was missing. End Quote
    Source: September 4, 1997

  8. #8


    Quote: As JonBenét's body lay at the foot of the family's Christmas tree, her father was on the phone with his private pilot, making plans to fly away from Boulder before nightfall.

    Moments later, Ramsey told Boulder police Detective Sgt. Larry Mason "that he, his wife, and his son would be flying to Atlanta that evening," Newsweek quotes the book as saying.

    1 line jumphead RAMSEY from Page 1A--> "You can't leave," Mason told him. "We have to talk to you." End Quote

  9. #9

    Default Lawyers?

    Quote: Also in the book, Shapiro describes a meeting in Hunter's office where the DA calls Bryan Morgan, one of the Ramseys' attorneys, to confirm information for the reporter.

    "The DA was calling the Ramseys' attorneys right in front of me to get information I needed," Shapiro is quoted saying in the book.

    When asked Monday if he knew Shapiro was working with Schiller on the book, Eller replied, "Yeah, so was Alex." Eller declined to elaborate, saying "There's a lot more to it," and that "I have plenty to say." But, he quickly added, he won't say any more until the investigation is resolved.

    "None of this is helping justice," Eller said. End Quote

  10. #10

    Default Part of the timeline Christmas night?

    Was JonBenet awake when they arrived home?

    Excerpts from Steve Thomas book, "JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation"

    Page 317: Quote: With his legs pulled up and his chin on his knees, Burke said he played some Nintendo on the afternoon of December 25. When showed a photograph of the pineapple and bowl, he recognized the bowl.

    That showed it belonged in the house and not brought in by an intruder. He recalled nothing unusual at the Whites' party other than getting a mild shock from the electric deer fence outside. He said his sister fell asleep in the car on the way home but awakened to help carry presents into the house of a friend. When they got home, JonBenet walked in slowly and walked up the spiral stairs to bed, just ahead of Patsy. That was quite a difference from the initial and frequently repeated story that she was carried to bed.

    End Quote

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2003

    Default LARRY KING LIVE -Encore Presentation


    Encore Presentation: Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?

    Aired April 28, 2001 - 21:00

    Thanks for joining us. There have been a lot of dramatic moments on this program, but in May of last year we had a whole hour's worth. For the first time ever on television former Boulder police detective Steve Thomas, author of "JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation," confronted John and Patsy Ramsey with his theory about who killed their little girl. The Ramseys had detailed their view of the case in "The Death of Innocence."

    KING: What do you think happened before that? What do you think happened? In other words, you're putting together a crime. Let's say that police tried to put death together a scenario in the O.J. Simpson case, and their scenario was he came upon this scene, he reacted out rage, he ran -- they had a scenario. What's the scenario? THOMAS: Well, certainly, in a domestic homicide, some evidence that might otherwise be incriminating that could be explained away, I think there are lacking pieces of a puzzle here...

    KING: That they hid?

    THOMAS: No, that prevented beyond a reasonable doubt in the minds of prosecutors from taking this case forward.

    KING: What do you think happened?

    THOMAS: But I think there was a toiletting issue that night that has been dismissed and underplayed.

    KING: OK, toiletting -- explain.

    THOMAS: A bed-wetting or a toiletting issue.

    KING: That caused Patsy to get mad at her daughter.

    THOMAS: Absolutely.

    KING: And say slap her, or hit her, or punish her?

    THOMAS: I don't know. I'm suggesting that there was an explosive encounter, because at one point put the child in clothes, a red turtleneck, for example, not the same clothing she was found in deceased, the following day. I think something happened in that bathroom.

    KING: All right. Why would it lead then to garroting and hitting on the head: What would lead to that?

    THOMAS: I don't know. What can you imagine would led to garroting or hitting on the head?

    P. RAMSEY: What can you imagine? I can't imagine. I want to you look at me and tell me what you think happened.

    THOMAS: Actually, I'll look you right in the eye. I think you're good for this. I think that's what the evidence suggests.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2003


    Fingerprints on ransom note and ransom note tablet

    Only one print on the ransom note belonged to Chet Ubowski of the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. But lab analysts did identify seven latent fingerprints on the tablet from which the ransom note came. None of them belonged to an intruder. One belonged to Sergeant Whitson, who handled the tablet on the morning of December 26. A second belonged to CBI's Ubowski. The remaining five fingerprints were Patricia Ramsey's. SOURCE: STEVE THOMAS "JonBenét" page 223

    The Speckin Forensic Laboratories in Okemos, Michigan, A retired secret service document examiner and a current Secret Service analyst all took a crack at the ransom note. Their conclusions were of varying strengths, but they did agree on one thing - just like the people hired by Team Ramsey, they could not eliminate Patsy as the possible author.

    That made five independent sources that would not rule her out, plus Chet Ubowski at the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, who thought she wrote it but could not say so under oath in a courtroom. And the Speckin Lab was ready to testify that there was only an infinitesimal chance that some random intruder would have handwriting characteristics so remarkable similar to those of a parent sleeping upstairs.

    Taken together, the six opinions formed a strong body of evidence. SOURCE: STEVE THOMAS "JonBenét" page 224

    Ransom note inconsistencies were discussed, and we pointed out that none of the expert document examiners, not even those hired by the defense, could eliminate Patsy Ramsey as the author. The CBI examiner explained that of the seventy-three persons whose writing had been investigated, there was only one whose writing showed evidence that suggested authorship and had been in the home the night of the killing and could not be eliminated by no less than six document examiners - Patsy Ramsey. I followed that up with a lengthy description of the findings by linguist Donald Foster, who had concluded that Patsy wrote the ransom note." SOURCE: STEVE THOMAS "JonBenét" page 344
    Last edited by Elle_1; January 18, 2006, 12:53 pm at Wed Jan 18 12:53:40 UTC 2006.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

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