PMPT Revisitied

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Tez, Jan 16, 2006.

  1. Tez

    Tez Member

    I am currently rereading PMPT by LS. There are a lot of little nugget of information in there that I guess I never realized before. Is there anyone else besides me who would like to discuss this book?
     
  2. Elle

    Elle Member

    Tez, I've posted this information before. Check your book to see if this is the first edition. If it's a hardback, it may be a first, because Schiller made quite a few mistakes in his first edition. A sharp poster on CN2000 a few years back spotted that I was posting his mistakes, but told me the police had tuned into the same ones too, so I felt good about that part. :)

    I favour Steve Thomas' book over PMPT because Steve Thomas worked the case, Schiller didn't, plus D.A. Alex Hunter handed Schiller a lot of Steve Thomas' reports to write that book. Thomas walked into Hunter's office one day, and Schiller was sitting reading the notes.

    BEtween the Ramseys being able to read what they had said in previous interviews, and Schiller reading Steve's notes. Alex Hunter was a creep.

    If it's the paperback, Schiller made corrections in this, and also included an index. There is no index in the first edition.
     
  3. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I have both the hardback and the paperback. I haven't read them in years, cover-to-cover, though I've referenced the paperback about a thousand times.

    Sure, if you find anything you want to discuss, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

    I have been thinking for a year I need to re-read all the old books. Tic toc tic toc....
     
  4. Tez

    Tez Member

    Elle, mine is the first edition. There were just things that caught my attention, that maybe I never really paid attention to before.

    KK, how about the "chance" meeting between Lou and the Ramseys on June 6, 1997, outside of their house in Boulder. Chance, my left foot....
     
  5. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    What's so interesting about that is that the Ramseys RAN from the home with JonBenet lying dead on the floor, Patsy covering her head with her fur coat. Didn't they swear they'd never go back?

    Yet "luckily" for Smit, there they sat, outside the home, when Smit "just happened" to be there.

    Didn't the Rams talk about sitting outside the home when Smit showed up in their book? Way back in my brain I'm thinking they did. Oh, memory, wherefore art thou?
     
  6. Elle

    Elle Member

    Tez,
    I do remember one of the mistakes in his book was related to SBTC. It's been a few years since I was given this information. I'll look through my files. I have just used the PMPT paperback ever since then.
     
  7. Tez

    Tez Member

    Elle,

    I remember that mistake, but now can't recall it. I know there were a lot of mistakes that he made. But, I did find it interesting in the end that he and ST became friends, because I think ST knew LS wanted justice for JB.

    No doubt, Hunter was so wrong in sharing reports with LS. Hell, Hunter should have been fired after the ST and RG taped Shapiro's story. Only in Boulder would tolerate something like that. However, the citizens never knew until the books came out. Koby should have been fired for destroying evidence right then and there.

    O/T, does anyone know if Pete Hofstrom is still with the DAs office?
     
  8. Elle

    Elle Member

    KK In "Death of Innocence" page 180 ... While the Ramseys were staying with the Stines, they heard that Lou Smit drove past their house every morning and sat out in the front for a few minutes to gather his thoughts. They discovered that during this time of quiet, Lou prayed for guidance and spent time thinking about JonBenét's case.
     
  9. Elle

    Elle Member

    You're right, Tez, Alex Hunter should never have shared those reports with anyone, but even the Ramseys were given a copy of their previous interviews, and they could read what they had said before, and rehearse for the next one, and change their testimony. Something wrong with this system, Tez.

    Don't know too much about Hofstrom, but I came across a comment from Lawrence Schiller promoting Steve Thomas' book:
    "From my investigation of the Ramsey murder, Steve Thomas was the lead detective on the case from the beginning and may know what happened better than anyone." LAWRENCE SCHILLER, AUTHOR OF PERFECT MURDER, PERFECT TOWN

     
  10. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Member

    I can only go by what is in the hb version as I don't have the pb yet. The first thing I would like to know is if Patsy's 1996 Christmas letter is the same version as it was in the hb version, or did Schiller leave it as it was written? You see, I didn't care for the way he took it upon himself to correct her little "slip up" when she wrote [italics mine]- We'll be spending my acutual birthday on the Disney Big Red Boat over the new year! He changed the acutual to actual when he shouldn't have done that.

    Second, I remember reading something LHP said about JonBenet's bedwetting and how it stopped for a period of a few weeks. Is this part still in the pb version? I'd like to know what was going on with the Ramsey family during that time.

    -Tea
     
  11. Elle

    Elle Member

    I would say Patsy's Christmas letter of 1996 is the same one in the PB as in the HB Tea, with the word "actual" still corrected. Christmas letter at beginning of the book PB.

    Yes, the bedwetting scenario is still the same. PB page 237 In the summer of 96, Linda states that JonBenét started wearing diaper type underpants - Pull-Ups; even wearing them to bed. There was always a wet one in the trash. Patsy tried to do away with these by the end of the summer, but the bedwetting started again, and a plastic cover was used instead.

    Linda states that almost every day she was there, there was a wet bed,and that Patsy had the sheets off the bed and in the laundry. JonBenét's white blanket would be in the dryer, with the stackable washer and dryer units in a closet outside JonBenét's room.

    Doesn't it make you wonder about JonBenét's bed being dry on 26th after reading LHP's statement? There was a wet bed almost every day she was there. I believe Patsy went through her usual routine of washing the bed clothes on the morning of the 26th December, as part of the cover-up, after the accidental death of JonBenét, and she never noticed the nightgown attached due to static electricity, when she covered her up in a hurry on the basement floor.
     
  12. Karen

    Karen Member

    I

    think Jonbenets bed was dry on the morning of the 26th. I don't think she ever made it that far Christmas night.
     
  13. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Tez, Hofstrom retired last year.

    http://www.longmontfyi.com/region-story.asp?ID=2777

     
  14. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks, Elle. So...wonder how they "knew" Smit was "gathering his thoughts" and praying? How do they know he wasn't thinking about getting a wax for his DeLorean?

    Let me guess....
     
  15. Elle

    Elle Member

    Yes, this could be true, Karen. We don't know exactly know, either Christmas night or the next morning (26th), but chances are nine times out of ten, JonBenét's bed was a wet one almost every morning, and the wrung out turtleneck (red) on JonBenét's counter is a sign there was a wet bed, and her sleepwear changed. jmo
     
  16. Elle

    Elle Member

    From the hound dog Susan Stine KK. :) Either his DeLorean or his head (?). :)
     
  17. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I've always looked at the pillow at the foot of the bed and the disheveled covers and thought it did not look like whoever took JonBenet out of that bed spent time staging the covers in any way. Remember, there was the pink top with a built in bodice lying at the top, which looked like it had been turned inside out. I think that's the one JonBenet had on the morning of Christmas in her last pictures. I always wondered why Patsy wouldn't have even taken dirty clothes off the bed when she changed JonBenet's pants and tucked her in, or why the pillow was at the bottom. Patsy was sloppy, we know that. And small children often don't use pillows to sleep on, as they rest more comfortably lying flat.

    And why wouldn't Patsy wake JonBenet when they got home that evening and have her go to the bathroom before putting her down for the night? Seems logical with a child having problems with bedwetting, especially if you didn't want to give her a bath in the morning before putting her on a plane. Didn't Patsy say the children sometimes flew in their pajamas? Patsy didn't have much time to give baths and wash clothes and bedclothes and finish packing and get to the airport, did she? It only takes a minute to have a child go to the bathroom.

    Could this be where the events leading to the head blow started?

    I'm not sure if the following relates much to whether or not there was a bedwetting incident, but I already wrote it out, so if it helps....

    While they waited too long to do the autopsy for me to figure out the math of rigor mortis at the time of the autopsy report without spending a lot of time, and then only being half sure, I do believe the stage of rigor mortis of JonBenet when she was brought upstairs by John tells us something about TOD, besides the pineapple in her upper intestine. John said and I believe others saw(Arndt/White) that JonBenet was "stiff" in her upper body, at least, with her arms and hands remaining extended over her head in spite of John carrying her upright, held at her waist with his arms outstretched, like a mannequin. It appears she was in all probability in full rigor, which as far as I can discern meant she'd been dead possibly as long as 12 hours or more.

    Here are some facts about rigor from Hidden Evidence, p. 28:

     
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    KK: Patsy Ramsey told one of her friends, Pamela Griffin she had to waken JonBenét up at midnight every night to see if this would stop JonBenét from wetting the bed.

    When interviewed in Atlanta, Nedra Paugh (Grandma) told Steve thomas JonBenét would scream blue bloody murder if she was hauled out of her bed. I personally think this is exactly what happened on Christmas night, and an argument began and it got out of hand with Patsy being frazzled with all she had to do.

    Patsy originally told the police according to Steve Thomas' report that she had put JonBenét to sleep in a red turtleneck top, and there was a red top found balled up on JonBenét's counter. It fits the scene! JonBenét was washed down, and this is something a mother would do, not an intruder, who would have been in a hurry, and she put the white top on with the sequined star, the one she is found dead in.

    A real intruder wouldn't have taken the time to do all this and write a War and Peace ransom note into the bargain. This is a ridiculous story!

    As for the body, rigor mortis had set in, and John Ramsey knew his daughter was dead, She was too stiff to be held close, contrary to other thoughts. It was impossible for her to be held close while he climbed those stairs. He had no other way to carry her upstairs because she was so stiff, and then he had the audacity to look into Linda Arndt's eyes and wait until she declared she was dead. He should have won the academy award for that one. jmo

    Have gone through this rigor mortis discussion a few times, and I'm sure you have too KK. Allowing for the accident to have happened shortly after the Ramseys returned home, went to bed, and got up before 6:00 AM gives us a count of approximately 8 hours.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 20, 2006
  19. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Member

    I just bought the pb version myself and, unfortunately, it wasn't corrected back to its original form. He should have left it as she wrote it.

    Okay, so there was a time during that summer when JonBenet was not wetting her bed. What was going on during this time?



    From what I recall, JonBenet's beds had these peach gingham patterned sheets on them but, on the morning of the 26th, the bed on the left side had Beauty and the Beast sheets on them. Could this be a clue?

    Beauty= JonBenet
    Beast= ?


    -Tea
     
  20. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Member

    Here's what I can't grasp. Why in the world would Patsy have JonBenet wear that red turtleneck to bed to sleep in when she could have just as easily, and more appropriately, dress her in the Barbie nightgown. It doesn't make any sense.

    And why would John Ramsey stick by a woman who bashed in his child's head and then tie a cord tightly around her neck because she had wet the bed? If I were him, I'd be afraid she'd do the same thing to Burke if he wet his bed.

    -Tea
     
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