I think it is time

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Barbara, May 18, 2006.

  1. Barbara

    Barbara FFJ Senior Member

    With so many RST calling for the Whites to come forward and speak, for Janet McReynolds to come forward, and of course my favorite, Ariana Pugh being called to come and post now that she is of age. Let's also not forget the absolute psychotic calls for ST to unseal his depo

    Why then don't we hear about:

    Unsealing Lou Smit's testimony?

    Now that Burke Ramsey is of legal age, why isn't anyone from the RST asking HIM to come and post?

    Who better than to answer some of the burning questions from the cult, and others?

    What makes him exempt from the RST and Ariana Pugh and others not?
    (rhetorical question of course)

    I think it is time.

    Oh, and by the way, how inappropriate is it that Lou Smit is part of the Michael Tracey project? While I never thought he was particularly credible in his theories, I at least thought he honestly believed what he was saying.

    After working with Tracey, not any more. My opinion of him now is the same as my opinion of the other bloodsucking moneymakers.
     
  2. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Boy, howdy, Barbara. I've asked the question about why Lou Smit's testimony has remained under seal, and all I've been met with is silence.

    Why is that?

    Jameson has been crapping for years about having Arianna Pugh speak out on her forum. So, why NOT Burke? Why not the other two Ramsey children? Why not Ramsey's first wife? Why not Patsy's father?

    For that matter, why not John and Patsy Ramsey, themselves? What have they got to hide at this point?
     
  3. Barbara

    Barbara FFJ Senior Member

    Perhaps Lou is waiting for the right price like the other leeches before he will unseal his. Until then, he will consult with Tracey and take his cut like the rest; never mind if it is truthful or not. Money talks.

    Jameson has been crapping for years about having everyone EXCEPT the Ramseys come forward. When they don't, it gives the forum more people to slander and more topics to cover;...............poorly and inaccurately at that.

    With such a close and endearing relationship to the players in the case, it is quite amusing that with everyones "contacts", nobody is willing to step up to the plate and post and answer questions. Where is Susan Stine? Why doesn't she post (under her real name). So many with so called inside sources, yet nobody puts their money where their mouth is

    As far as what John and Patsy have to hide? The same stuff they have been hiding for 10 years.

    I say, let them all come to the forums. Let the chips fall where they may, right?
     
  4. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    There is one small problem with this, Barbara. Even if pitbull Stine or any of the others showed up at the swamp, with all the lies Susan Bennett has told over the years, how could anyone believe it wasn't her pretending to be they? I don't think it would be the first time she pulled something like that - remember the posts from JR Jr?

    Now, if they really wanted to up upfront and honest about it, they would come to FFJ and face real questions. At least we could check to be sure it was they and not an imposter.
     
  5. Elle

    Elle Member

  6. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Yeah, and speaking of Shapiro, the RST love him to death, since he "crossed over" and all. But they NEVER diss him for all that he did: lying to JAR and others to "get close" to him; lying to the Rams' church members and pastor to get info on them; taking Hunter's leaks to him and publishing them in the tabs. For starters.

    And they never complain about HUNTER'S LEAKS to the tabs and Shapiro. No, they act like Thomas was the only leak in this case. That's such a lie. Hunter admitted himself on national TV he leaked to the tabs. He even said it was because the tabs offered that big reward and he wanted the info they got from that. hahaha Can you imagine? Selling out his case to the tabs? That's the true reason he hates Thomas so: Thomas caught him, got Shapiro on tape admitting Hunter was feeding him info. That tape not only didn't end with Hunter being held accountable for his own leaks, but it was destroyed promptly. After that, I believe Thomas was a marked man. Hunter's hatred of him was palpable on the talk show they were on together. But Thomas was cool as a cucumber. It was crystal clear who had a guilty conscience on that show, and it wasn't Thomas.

    And you never hear about Smit's LEAKS. He was handing out case info left and right, and that is documented in a court petition Hunter filed himself. Hunter claimed Smit had shared sensitive case info with others long before he quit, and Smit had done so in breach of his contract where he signed his word and honor he wouldn't do that. But Thomas is the only one who gets smeared at the swamp for "leaking," of course. That's how duplicitous they are, with their incredibly transparent double standards.

    Same with anyone they want to "hear from." There are many people who could come forward and tell what they know. But unless they said what the Ramseys WANT them to say, they'd simply get sued. Wood and the Rams made sure the truth will never come out in this case when they slap-sued everyone who expressed an opinion in the media not pro-Ramsey, or who even remotely suggested that they have NEVER BEEN CLEARED and are therefore still suspects.

    Gutter candy can foam at the mouth all she wants about Thomas and his publisher's suit settlement, but the truth is far from her distortions of it. Nobody can defend a suit, even with a successful outcome of finding for the defendant, without paying a fortune to do so. So every defendant with deep pockets...like St. Martin's Press...settles as soon as they can reach a monetary agreement with the plaintiff. We all knew the Rams would settle as well. I posted as much a dozen times at least long before the settlement was reached: it's what Wood does. And the Ramseys were NEVER going to go on the record under oath without being forced to, as they were in the Wolf suit. But the lawyers working for St. Martin's Press make Darnay Hoffman look like the ambulance chaser he is. They'd have shown Lin Wood he's not the only shark in the water, and the Rams would have yet another set of incriminating statements to spin away which could also be used in a criminal court against them. It was NOT going to happen. Even Darnay caught them in numerous lies in those depo's.

    Wood was fishing for a settlement before he put the first word to paper in the St. Martin's Press suit. If the Ramseys actually wanted to be exonerated, rather than just getting a paycheck, they'd have gone to trial, wouldn't they? But they didn't, because it also would have cost them a great portion of any settlement to take the suit to trial--assuming they won. If they didn't win, Wood would have to have eaten his costs. Wood works for the Rams for a cut of the spoils as the plaintiffs' attorney. Who thinks he was going to wait another two or three years and risk many thousands of dollars to get not much more than the settlement, IF they won...and they'd probably have had it thrown out anyway, as Thomas has the same First Amendment rights to voice his opinion as anyone else, especially about public figures who also voiced theirs in their own book! Wood was always going to settle this loser of a case, and everyone knows it but the swampsters and gutter candy.

    Now consider those private citizens the swampsters want to come forward and speak: If sued, any defendant needs a lawyer, and the opening shot for a mediocre one is at least 10-20 thou for a retainer. That quickly runs up at $200+ an hour. What private citizen has that kind of money to burn, not to mention time and energy, just so they can speak their minds about a child murder case that is long dead and buried by the very DA who should have been the one filing charges? Who wants the kind of attack they'll be treated to if their opinion is the Ramseys are guilty? White, Thomas, the Pughs, Judith Phillips, Tom Miller--just a few examples of exactly what anyone who goes up against the RST can expect. Heck, I don't remember the McReynolds ever saying one word against the Ramseys, and look how they're libeled daily at the swamp as child killers. But they're just convenient scape goats while that old intruder still eludes them. No problem. As long as it's not the Rams, anyone can be called killer or suspect, even if they never laid eyes on the Rams in their lives--like the deceased Helgoth. Now there's a handy "intruder/suspect." Can't deny it and can't sue. Perfect.

    Look at the two-faced swampsters: they accuse a myriad of innocent people everyday of being child molesters and murderers, even though that precious intruder DNA does NOT match any of them and some have been cleared by the BPD many times; yet the swampsters drool at the thought of anyone who believes the Rams to be guilty getting sued and ruined for stating that opinion. Jams, in her never-ending ill will toward BORG, uses the incredibly inane argument that there really is NO evidence against the Rams, therefore anyone who doesn't agree only does so out of sheer malicious intent and should be legally lynched for not towing the RamSpin line.

    And what fool is supposed to come forward now and speak what they know and believe under these conditions?

    Yes, where IS Smit's deposition? That question has been asked many times, and always ignored by the RST. Why? I suspect because if we saw what Carnes hung her decision on, it would be exactly as we suspect: it's all Smit spin, little logic or evidence of anything but what is in Smit's imagination, himself featured as some legendary, brilliant savior of the Rams in his fantasy world of stun gunned blue lines on the body, packing peanuts, imaginary intruders, and Christian martyrs he personally will pull off that holy cross they've climbed upon for public display, while their child waits alone in a cold, silent grave for justice.

    I saw Beth Holloway on TV last night. Almost a year after her daughter Natalie disappeared, after all the bungling of the Aruban police, the suspected corruption, the admitted lies and slander of the suspects about her missing child, she's almost turned to stone in her grief. But she's on TV. She's in pure chronic depression; it's written all over her. But she's there, with Natalie's father, not giving up. She is devastated. She is grief personified. They are parents who will not stop until the killer of their child is found. They're not out "moving on." No, they are ALL about their missing and presumed dead child. You hear Beth say Natalie's name every time she opens her mouth.

    Not the Ramseys. The Ramseys themselves obstructed this case from day one. Yeah, they had the legal right to hide behind their lawyers, to whine about being considered suspects when they refused repeatedly to give LE what was needed to clear them...TO THIS DAY. Oh, yeah, they had the right and the money. But that's NOT what was going to find their "intruder." The proof is in the 10 years that have lapsed since. They can blame no one but themselves, if an actual intruder hasn't been found; how can LE effectively investigate the murder of a six year old child when her parents won't even talk to them for 4 months, forget that critical 48 hours? They can blame no one but themselves if they are perceived as involved in the murder; even Wood said their lawyers kept them out of prison, but made them appear guilty by defending them as if they were. They can blame no one but themselves if they actually have reasons other than "suspicion" they were involved; the evidence always has led to no one but them. Even their own investigators have not be able to link one piece of evidence to any intruder suspect in this murder. Not even Smit, who got a good look at the latest evidence two years ago when Keenan handed the case file back over to him, even after he screwed Hunter royally the last time he had access to it.

    Yeah, why not release Smit's deposition? Wood sure couldn't wait to get everyone else's depo's public. Why not Smit's? Something in there the RST doesn't want us to see? That would be why jams didn't get a copy, as well, I'm guessing. The one thing that will make her turn on the Rams...money.

    IMO, THAT'S what gutter candy has that jams wants: Darnay's depo tapes. Go ahead, gutter candy...do it...let's all see what Smit had to say that was so convincing to Judge Carnes. Nobody is going to arrest anyone for leaks in this case. They'd have to start with confessed leaker Alex Hunter. They're not going to open that can of worms in Boulder.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2006
  7. Elle

    Elle Member

    Why don't you tell us how you really feel KK? :) I hope you feel better after this release. I can feel your anger and quite rightly so.
     
  8. Barbara

    Barbara FFJ Senior Member

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I posted this response to Cherokee on a different thread, but possibly someone with a legal background could comment. Is there any reason why this would be illegal or subjected to lawsuits with the proper disclaimer?


     
  9. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Not to take the wind out of your sails or anything, Barbara, but I don't think there is a market for any more Ramsey case books, and I don't think many give a damn about what posters on internet forums think.

    There would also be the question of copyright on the posts included in a book. Permission would have to be given by the posters in order to use the posts. It would be a lot of work with little profit, I think.

    I said the same thing about similar inquiries at the swamp. Jameson is wearing her fingerprints off typing up those tapes in hopes she can suck more money out of the Ramsey case. No one's going to buy it - she's wasting her time. The NE has already published the transcripts. Just because she thinks there were vital things left out doesn't really mean they were vital. Jameson vision has always been a bit skewed.
     
  10. Barbara

    Barbara FFJ Senior Member

    I know you are right WY, but it sounded like such a nice idea and a great handbook for case followers.

    However, the tasks that you speak of would be monumental in trying to clear the way, but it sure sounded nice just to talk about it anyway

    Oh well, consider my sails out of wind :dammit:
     
  11. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Crappy, in her usual sweet way, not, claims Lou Smit's deposition was never sealed and it can be purchased for $2,000. While I doubt Cranky spent $2,000 to get her hot little muffins on that deposition, I'll bet jammy sue has a copy of it. (Purchasing it probably threw her into bankruptcy, haha.)

    If jams has a copy, one would have to wonder why she has never mentioned it or posted any parts of it on her forum of record (snicker). That's certainly not like her.

    Hey Candy, this is for you, :skank: :flipper: :flipper: :flipper: :flipper:
     
  12. Elle

    Elle Member

    Barbara, I would say that the closest anyone has come to producing a "handbook" when it comes to referring to the posters of the JonBenét Ramsey case on the net, is my young friend Peggy Deniker Lakin, also known as "Little" on this board. I think she did a very good job, and I have always classified her book "JOURNEY BEYOND REASON" as a great reference book for the JonBenét posters on the boards, excluding Jameson's, of course. :) http://www.peggylakin.com/

    Peggy Lakin is also a moderator on another board Crime and Justice forum, and she knows this case like the back of her hand. I am always happy to give Peggy the credit she deserves.
    About the Author:

    There is nothing extraordinary about me what so ever. I am just an average person, of average intelligence who through the internet has found others who share the same concerns. We all have the desire to help victims of crime. The internet has opened up a whole new world of interesting people with whom I can converse, share information and work with to try to help in any way we can those who have been touched by the horror of violent crime.

    Peggy Lakin



    JOURNEY BEYOND REASON

    1. Let's start at the beginning
    2. Timelines and TV shows
    3. Investigative procedures
    4. Where's the outrage?
    5. The Challengers, Tricia Griffith & Delmar England
    6. The Ransom Note; LSI
    7. Point - Counter Point
    8. The Ramsey Inner Circle
    9. The Ramsey Teams
    10. Little Things May Mean a Lot
    11. The Ties that Bind us
    12. Too Many Victims


    N.B. Chapter 5

    The Challengers, Tricia Griffith & Delmar England
    Tricia Griffith begins an internet petition
    Delmar England's Garrote Analysis
    Ransom Note Analysis and letter to Mary Keenan

    Edited to get your name right Peggy! :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2006
  13. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I agree with WY that not many people are going to buy a book about internet posters. If that's Tracey's pitch, I can't wait to see how he markets it.

    There's nothing new in this case. What we would like to see is being hoarded by those who either don't want us to know the actual truth or are hanging on to make money if they can ever sell it.

    If anyone really wants to read about this case, there are many books out there, enough spin crocs to satisfy even the most delusional Ram supporter, and more online sites containing every deposition, argument, analysis, article, and case primer than we could read if we started now and kept on for 10 years.


    Publishers buy books from authors because they hope to make money on them. I just don't see it without some actual IMPORTANT case information that isn't just old news being rehashed...like Tracey and jams are hoping to sell. Nobody is going to pay now to read that the BPD screwed up years ago. We already know that. Having it laid out in some new detail? Who cares? The case is dead, the BPD, DA, and, most importantly, the Rams killed it. Nothing anyone can do on this earth will ever make a solid case beyond a reasonable doubt to any jury in this country now. Not when the DA herself could be called as a witness if a Ramsey was indicted, the parents will forever be the best suspects as the ransom note writers to create reasonable doubt for any "intruder," and the bill for ever trying the case, even if a derelict was indicted, would run into the millions by the time a media savy lawyer took it pro bono and ran it through the media non-stop for years before the jury would even get picked. Not going to happen. Everyone knows it. It's over.

    As for gutter candy's claim that it would only cost $2000 for the transcript, I had no idea the depos were in the public domain across the board. Since the case never went to trial, I thought that those depos that were released were transcribed by Wood for his purposes. My bad. If I'd known they were in the public domain, I might have held a bake sale to raise the money, because what gutter candy is referring to is THE COST OF HAVING SMIT'S DEPO TRANSCRIBED by the RECORDER who took it down.

    Unless...surely gutter candy isn't saying Wood already had Smit's depo transcribed and didn't give jams a copy. No! I remember jams mentioning in a vague way that Smit's depo was in some kind of limbo...implying she didn't have it. Jams wouldn't lie, would she? Let me look into my crystal ball...or take a shower vision.... :cb: No...I don't think jams has Smit's depo. Why would she not post at least parts of it that support the Rams so spectacularly that, when not challenged by the plaintiff's lawyer...duh...the judge threw the case out?

    So...if gutter candy is saying all we gotta' do is pay for it, who do I call? Judge Carnes' office? Darnay? Woody boy? Oh for joy for joy.

    Or is gutter candy just blowing hard like she so loves to do, and in fact no one can just call up and order the transcript for the "small fee"?
     
  14. Elle

    Elle Member

    I can assure you Peggy Lakin wasn't interested in the money side of her book KK. She was more interested in getting the truth out. Peggy has actually sent many of her books to people at her own expense. She is a very dedicated person. I thought I would like to clear that one up, not that you were meaning that Peggy belonged in this "money making group." I just wanted everyone to know that Peggy was encouraged to write this book by ACandyRose, Delmar England, Tricia Griffith, Kim Schwaninger (Thor) and myself. We were all very proud of her and the hard work that must have been involved.
     
  15. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Does all this mean that the previously undisclosed information regarding the investigation is possibly Smit's depo?

    And why can't Candy shell out two grand?! That's a drop in the bucket for someone that is obsessed with finding out what's in that deceptive defective depo. Chit - if jameson can file bancruptcy and still have a vaction in Tennessee, anything's possible! LOL - that Ram Camp sure does Love their Get-A-Ways.....

    RR
     
  16. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Elle, I've never read Peggy's book, though I've heard good things about it. I haven't read it because it was my understanding she used the resources we already have had access to for years. I think it's great she took the time to put it together and make it her own.

    Anyone who wants to write a book--it's a free country. Or it once was, anyway. I'm just saying if Tracey and jams think they're going to sell the same old same old to a publisher...not going to happen. And I think Tracey's taken a dip at the JonBenet well at least one time too many already. Same with jams. At some point, it becomes obvious they don't care about anything but making another buck off of this case, IMO. They have had their say many times, in many ways, and if they have nothing new to add, they're just shilling for gold. Again...their right to try. But I'm not going to admire them for it. That's just me, though. Others can do as they please, no problem.

    Hope I am clearer now.
     
  17. Elle

    Elle Member

    The type of book that Jameson or Michael Tracy will come up with, will probably be the same old as you have stated, KK. Totally different from Peggy Lakin's, which is truly an asset for the JonBenét posters researching the case. One can take Peggy Lakin's book, sit in the garden and browse through it, take notes of where you want to go, when you get back to your pc. Browse through muted commercials and do the same. There is a lot of Peggy's own personal thoughts on the JonBenét case included too.

    Peggy's Crime and Justice members were also encouraging her to put a book together, as we her friends from this site were doing, and the end result was "JOURNEY BEYOND REASON." Peggy's web site was created by ACandyRose. You did a great job BJ. Thank you.

    Note to Peggy Lakin: So glad you had the patience, stamina, intelligence and endurance to put this book together. Thank you, Peggy!
     
  18. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Ditto what Elle said. Peggy's book is a mine of information and a fabulous achievement.
     
  19. wombat

    wombat Member

    WY, there's a market for one book only, huge best seller: The Truth, by Patsy Ramsey. Come out, come out, wherever you are, Mrs. Ramsey. You'd make a lot of money and be on all the teevee shows, Oprah, the View, Diane Sawyer, and Katie Couric included. Nothing to be afraid of, because Mary Keenan still wouldn't indict you.
     
  20. Elle

    Elle Member

    Thank you for your support Jay. Peggy has been feeling a bit upset at some of the remarks made, because making money was not the reason behind "her" book.
     
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