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  1. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    JonBenet's TV set was inside her closet - you can see it on page 4 in the photo section of this site:

    http://www.realsundancekid.com/

    Solace, I think your scenario (JonBenet watching TV instead of going to bed) is possible, only I believe that if the red turtleneck had been urine-soaked, Patsy would have hidden it or tried to get rid of it in some way.
    Per SteveThomas, she originally told the investigators JB wore the red turtleneck to bed, but she also told them she and JonBenet had had a tiff in the afternoon before going to the Whites' because JonBenet refused to wear the same outfit as Patsy, which I think also included the red turtleneck.

    Her leggings were urine-stained, but this could have come from post-mortem release.

    Does anyone know if Patsy was ever confronted in the official interviews with the different stories she told LE? Has she ever been asked why she changed her story? For JonBenet did not wear the red turtleneck to the Whites' party (Steve Thomas, who saw the party pictures, said this a chat room), and Patsy's later version was she put her sleeping child to bed in the white shirt she had been wearing to the party - the same shirt in which the dead body was later found.
    So Patsy would have had some explaining to do re her first statement about JonBenet wearing the red turtleneck to bed.

    jmo
    rashsomon, here are some notes of mine on the red turtleneck situation.









    1. JonBenet's sleepwear Christmas night(?)





    Patsy said that JonBenet went to sleep wearing long white underwear and a red turtleneck top. Source: "JonBenet" Steve Thomas paperback - page 25





    Dr. Myers enters Ramsey home. Pronounces Jonbenet dead. She is wearing a white top with a silver sequined star in front, and longjohns. Source: "JonBenet" by Steve Thomas - paperback -Page 39





    On the bathroom counter lay a balled up child's red turtleneck sweater. Although Patsy said JonBenet had gone to bed wearing a red turtleneck, the body was discovered in a white pullover top, the same one she had worn the evening before, to the Whites Christmas Party. Source: "JonBenet" by Steve Thomas - paperback -Page40





    Nedra Paugh becomes evasive when asked by Steve thomas about bed wetting history of JonBenet. Patsy had told Police the child had gone to sleep in a red turtleneck although the body was found in a white top. The turtleneck had been discovered rolled up on the bathroom sink. Source: "JonBenet" Steve Thomas - paperback -Page 102





    Interview with Patsy Ramsey - Steve Thomas states hearing for the first time, JonBenét was carried upstairs asleep by John Ramsey. Patsy replaced the child's pants with long-john bottoms. The white shirt with the star stayed on, she said. On December 26 Patsy



    had told the police that JonBenét went to sleep wearing the red turtleneck top, which



    was later found balled up on the bathroom sink. Now it was the white one in which the body was found. Inconsistent. Source: "JonBenét" Steve Thomas - paperback Page 185









    Later JonBenét awakened after wetting the bed, as indicated by the plastic sheets, the urine stains, the pull-up diaper package hanging half-way out of a cabinet, and the balled-up turtleneck found in the bathroom. I concluded that the little girl had worn the red turtleneck to bed, as her mother originally said, and that it was stripped off when it got wet. Source: "JonBenét" Steve Thomas - paperback Page 319









    .................................................. .................................................. .........................................





    SOURCE - Police Files - National Enquirer





    Det Trujillo asks what JonBenét wore to bed. Patsy states JonBenét wore a shirt from the Gap - white with rhinestoned star. States JonBent rebelled about wearing a red sweater to match her Mom, and they had a little riff about that. Source: NE Police Files Page 47- 48





    Patsy confirms for Det. Steve Thomas the white top worn to the White's party was left on



    JonBenét for sleeping in, with white thermal bottoms. Source:NE Police Files - Page 52





    Patsy tells Det. Trujillo she gets up, gets dressed and stops at the laundry area near JonBenét's room, and fusses with a red stained jumpsuit on the ironing board, which she plans to attend to when she returns. Source: NE Police Files - Page 62 - 63











    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  2. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    Imo JonBenet falling asleep in the car could be an element bit of truth the Ramseys weaved into their fabricated story. Perhaps JonBenet fell asleep in the car for a short time, but when the family arrived home, woke up again, the short sleep having 'recharged her batteries' enough to refuse to go to bed afterward for a long time. Maybe the rage attack did not occur over a (bed)wetting accident, but over JonBenet's refusal to go to bed?

    jmo
    Yeah, I should've said 'plausible Ramsey statement' rather than lie, because I agree that this, & your continuation, surely could've been how events played out, or began that night.

    Patsy had things to do, before the Sleep Queen thing took effect, and under the time crunch not have had the patience to deal with a six-year old after a power-nap. JonBenet was asleep, in bed on her way to bed, Patsy had already checked her off her to-do list, and then...

  3. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1
    rashsomon, here are some notes of mine on the red turtleneck situation.









    1. JonBenet's sleepwear Christmas night(?)





    Patsy said that JonBenet went to sleep wearing long white underwear and a red turtleneck top. Source: "JonBenet" Steve Thomas paperback - page 25





    Dr. Myers enters Ramsey home. Pronounces Jonbenet dead. She is wearing a white top with a silver sequined star in front, and longjohns. Source: "JonBenet" by Steve Thomas - paperback -Page 39





    On the bathroom counter lay a balled up child's red turtleneck sweater. Although Patsy said JonBenet had gone to bed wearing a red turtleneck, the body was discovered in a white pullover top, the same one she had worn the evening before, to the Whites Christmas Party. Source: "JonBenet" by Steve Thomas - paperback -Page40





    Nedra Paugh becomes evasive when asked by Steve thomas about bed wetting history of JonBenet. Patsy had told Police the child had gone to sleep in a red turtleneck although the body was found in a white top. The turtleneck had been discovered rolled up on the bathroom sink. Source: "JonBenet" Steve Thomas - paperback -Page 102





    Interview with Patsy Ramsey - Steve Thomas states hearing for the first time, JonBenét was carried upstairs asleep by John Ramsey. Patsy replaced the child's pants with long-john bottoms. The white shirt with the star stayed on, she said. On December 26 Patsy



    had told the police that JonBenét went to sleep wearing the red turtleneck top, which



    was later found balled up on the bathroom sink. Now it was the white one in which the body was found. Inconsistent. Source: "JonBenét" Steve Thomas - paperback Page 185









    Later JonBenét awakened after wetting the bed, as indicated by the plastic sheets, the urine stains, the pull-up diaper package hanging half-way out of a cabinet, and the balled-up turtleneck found in the bathroom. I concluded that the little girl had worn the red turtleneck to bed, as her mother originally said, and that it was stripped off when it got wet. Source: "JonBenét" Steve Thomas - paperback Page 319









    .................................................. .................................................. .........................................





    SOURCE - Police Files - National Enquirer





    Det Trujillo asks what JonBenét wore to bed. Patsy states JonBenét wore a shirt from the Gap - white with rhinestoned star. States JonBent rebelled about wearing a red sweater to match her Mom, and they had a little riff about that. Source: NE Police Files Page 47- 48





    Patsy confirms for Det. Steve Thomas the white top worn to the White's party was left on



    JonBenét for sleeping in, with white thermal bottoms. Source:NE Police Files - Page 52





    Patsy tells Det. Trujillo she gets up, gets dressed and stops at the laundry area near JonBenét's room, and fusses with a red stained jumpsuit on the ironing board, which she plans to attend to when she returns. Source: NE Police Files - Page 62 - 63











    That was great Elle. I have always wondered how many times it was spoken about and you just put it altogether so thank you.

    Have a great Holiday EVERYONE. Don't drink too much eggnog.

  4. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sboyd
    That was great Elle. I have always wondered how many times it was spoken about and you just put it altogether so thank you.

    Have a great Holiday EVERYONE. Don't drink too much eggnog.
    Thank you, sb. It was already on my file from research. Comes in handy now and then. It's good to share it.

    Have you started drinkng already? Cheers!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  5. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1
    I couldn't agree with you more, rashomon. Patsy Ramsey disassociates herself from practically living in her own house. She had nothing to do with anything relating to JonBenét being accidentally killed in her own home. Absolutely nothing, and she got away with it. She might have given Vivien Leigh a run for her money for the part of Scarlett O'Hara in "Gone With The Wind."
    Indeed, Patsy could have played the role of the narcissistic and scheming 'steel magnolia' Southern Belle Scarlett O'Hara perfectly.

  6. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1
    rashsomon, here are some notes of mine on the red turtleneck situation.









    1. JonBenet's sleepwear Christmas night(?)





    Patsy said that JonBenet went to sleep wearing long white underwear and a red turtleneck top. Source: "JonBenet" Steve Thomas paperback - page 25





    Dr. Myers enters Ramsey home. Pronounces Jonbenet dead. She is wearing a white top with a silver sequined star in front, and longjohns. Source: "JonBenet" by Steve Thomas - paperback -Page 39





    On the bathroom counter lay a balled up child's red turtleneck sweater. Although Patsy said JonBenet had gone to bed wearing a red turtleneck, the body was discovered in a white pullover top, the same one she had worn the evening before, to the Whites Christmas Party. Source: "JonBenet" by Steve Thomas - paperback -Page40





    Nedra Paugh becomes evasive when asked by Steve thomas about bed wetting history of JonBenet. Patsy had told Police the child had gone to sleep in a red turtleneck although the body was found in a white top. The turtleneck had been discovered rolled up on the bathroom sink. Source: "JonBenet" Steve Thomas - paperback -Page 102





    Interview with Patsy Ramsey - Steve Thomas states hearing for the first time, JonBenét was carried upstairs asleep by John Ramsey. Patsy replaced the child's pants with long-john bottoms. The white shirt with the star stayed on, she said. On December 26 Patsy



    had told the police that JonBenét went to sleep wearing the red turtleneck top, which



    was later found balled up on the bathroom sink. Now it was the white one in which the body was found. Inconsistent. Source: "JonBenét" Steve Thomas - paperback Page 185









    Later JonBenét awakened after wetting the bed, as indicated by the plastic sheets, the urine stains, the pull-up diaper package hanging half-way out of a cabinet, and the balled-up turtleneck found in the bathroom. I concluded that the little girl had worn the red turtleneck to bed, as her mother originally said, and that it was stripped off when it got wet. Source: "JonBenét" Steve Thomas - paperback Page 319









    .................................................. .................................................. .........................................





    SOURCE - Police Files - National Enquirer





    Det Trujillo asks what JonBenét wore to bed. Patsy states JonBenét wore a shirt from the Gap - white with rhinestoned star. States JonBent rebelled about wearing a red sweater to match her Mom, and they had a little riff about that. Source: NE Police Files Page 47- 48





    Patsy confirms for Det. Steve Thomas the white top worn to the White's party was left on



    JonBenét for sleeping in, with white thermal bottoms. Source:NE Police Files - Page 52





    Patsy tells Det. Trujillo she gets up, gets dressed and stops at the laundry area near JonBenét's room, and fusses with a red stained jumpsuit on the ironing board, which she plans to attend to when she returns. Source: NE Police Files - Page 62 - 63











    Great info Elle!

    The only thing which bothers me: Steve Thomas seems to believe that the red turtleneck was connected to a (bed)wetting accident. One can assume that this crucial piece of evidence was thoroughly tested for urine, but he does not mention in his book that any urine was discovered on the garment.
    Wouldn't he have pointed out in is book if urine had in fact been found there?

    jmo

  7. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    Great info Elle!

    The only thing which bothers me: Steve Thomas seems to believe that the red turtleneck was connected to a (bed)wetting accident. One can assume that this crucial piece of evidence was thoroughly tested for urine, but he does not mention in his book that any urine was discovered on the garment.
    Wouldn't he have pointed out in is book if urine had in fact been found there?

    jmo

    Later JonBenét awakened after wetting the bed, as indicated by the plastic sheets, the urine stains, the pull-up diaper package hanging half-way out of a cabinet, and the balled-up turtleneck found in the bathroom. I concluded that the little girl had worn the red turtleneck to bed, as her mother originally said, and that it was stripped off when it got wet. Source: "JonBenét" Steve Thomas - paperback Page 319


    I think Steve Thomas is indicating here, that there was urine on this red turtleneck and it had been rinsed out in the bathroom because it was rinsed into a balled up shape.

    This is how I read this, rashomon. It's stands to reason that this is what could have happened.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  8. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1
    [/color][/size][/font]

    I think Steve Thomas is indicating here, that there was urine on this red turtleneck and it had been rinsed out in the bathroom because it was rinsed into a balled up shape.

    This is how I read this, rashomon. It's stands to reason that this is what could have happened.
    Does ST say that the balled up-turtleneck neck was wet, or just that it was balled up? For if Patsy rinsed the garment, imo it would not have dried yet by the time the police arrived at the house.

    But then who knows when they finally took a look at the sheets and the turtleneck. In his deposition, S. Thomas says that by the time the bedsheet was finally collected, any fresh urine on it would have dried. And traces of urine were in fact found on the sheet, and I think also brown stains on a blanket which was on the bed.

    Too bad none of the interviewers played hardball with Patsy in the interview, confronting her with her conflicting statements re what JonBenet wore to bed. They could easily have backed her into a corner by simply asking: "Why did you change your story, Patsy?"

  9. #57
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    rashomon,

    This red top is found rolled up on the bathroom sink. This indicates to me that it had been rinsed out.

    Nedra Paugh becomes evasive when asked by Steve thomas about bed wetting history of JonBenet. Patsy had told Police the child had gone to sleep in a red turtleneck although the body was found in a white top. The turtleneck had been discovered rolled up on the bathroom sink. Source: "JonBenet" Steve Thomas - paperback -Page 102


    Patsy Ramsey emphasizes here that she was fussing with a red stained jumpsuit on the ironing board. Why bother even mentioning this? Is she trying to confuse the cops here?

    Keep in mind, Patsy Ramsey had access to her previous statements to the police, and could therefore change her testimony to suit her lies.

    Patsy tells Det. Trujillo she gets up, gets dressed and stops at the laundry area near JonBenét's room, and fusses with a red stained jumpsuit on the ironing board, which she plans to attend to when she returns. Source: NE Police Files - Page 62 - 63






    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  10. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1
    rashomon,

    This red top is found rolled up on the bathroom sink. This indicates to me that it had been rinsed out.

    Nedra Paugh becomes evasive when asked by Steve thomas about bed wetting history of JonBenet. Patsy had told Police the child had gone to sleep in a red turtleneck although the body was found in a white top. The turtleneck had been discovered rolled up on the bathroom sink. Source: "JonBenet" Steve Thomas - paperback -Page 102


    Patsy Ramsey emphasizes here that she was fussing with a red stained jumpsuit on the ironing board. Why bother even mentioning this? Is she trying to confuse the cops here?

    Keep in mind, Patsy Ramsey had access to her previous statements to the police, and could therefore change her testimony to suit her lies.

    Patsy tells Det. Trujillo she gets up, gets dressed and stops at the laundry area near JonBenét's room, and fusses with a red stained jumpsuit on the ironing board, which she plans to attend to when she returns. Source: NE Police Files - Page 62 - 63







  11. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    Does ST say that the balled up-turtleneck neck was wet, or just that it was balled up? For if Patsy rinsed the garment, imo it would not have dried yet by the time the police arrived at the house.

    But then who knows when they finally took a look at the sheets and the turtleneck. In his deposition, S. Thomas says that by the time the bedsheet was finally collected, any fresh urine on it would have dried. And traces of urine were in fact found on the sheet, and I think also brown stains on a blanket which was on the bed.

    Too bad none of the interviewers played hardball with Patsy in the interview, confronting her with her conflicting statements re what JonBenet wore to bed. They could easily have backed her into a corner by simply asking: "Why did you change your story, Patsy?"
    Yep, they practically kissed the Ramsey's butt, during their interviews.

  12. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1
    [/color][/size][/font]

    I think Steve Thomas is indicating here, that there was urine on this red turtleneck and it had been rinsed out in the bathroom because it was rinsed into a balled up shape.

    This is how I read this, rashomon. It's stands to reason that this is what could have happened.
    I imagine that Patsy "balled" it up when she squeezed out the water. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that JB went to bed with that red turtleneck on, and she wet the bed, and IT got wet too. I think that the rage accident happened, probably as Patsy...in a :(:(:(:(ed off mood, was trying to yank the turtleneck off of JB.



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