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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMES
    I imagine that Patsy "balled" it up when she squeezed out the water. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that JB went to bed with that red turtleneck on, and she wet the bed, and IT got wet too. I think that the rage accident happened, probably as Patsy...in a :(:(:(:(ed off mood, was trying to yank the turtleneck off of JB.
    That's my personal way of imagining what happened too AMES. If you put an egg in a sock you can bump it into something without doing much damage, if any. If you have the momentum of swinging it from the top of the sock you can smash it to bits.

    In order for them to say she was sound asleep when she got home it was necessary for the white top to be on her.

    Little
    No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man. -Heraclitus Fragments c. 500 BC

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little
    That's my personal way of imagining what happened too AMES. If you put an egg in a sock you can bump it into something without doing much damage, if any. If you have the momentum of swinging it from the top of the sock you can smash it to bits.

    In order for them to say she was sound asleep when she got home it was necessary for the white top to be on her.

    Little
    I can just see Patsy trying to yank that turtleneck off of JB....those things are VERY hard to get off anyway. She was probably jerking her around trying to remove it...and that's when she hit her head.

  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMES
    I can just see Patsy trying to yank that turtleneck off of JB....those things are VERY hard to get off anyway. She was probably jerking her around trying to remove it...and that's when she hit her head.
    It may also explain some of the marks on JonBenet.

    Little
    No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man. -Heraclitus Fragments c. 500 BC

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little
    It may also explain some of the marks on JonBenet.

    Little
    Yes, it may.

  5. #65
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    This is exactly what I think happened too. Patsy was in a rage and threw JonBenét around. One can see a struggle going on, as Patsy dragged her to the bathroom, throwing her in the tub in anger, and her head striking the taps or whatever (?). It's possible, isn't it?
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1
    This is exactly what I think happened too. Patsy was in a rage and threw JonBenét around. One can see a struggle going on, as Patsy dragged her to the bathroom, throwing her in the tub in anger, and her head striking the taps or whatever (?). It's possible, isn't it?
    It just seemed to me that the red top had a lot of meaning to Patsy. I wish the video of her interview was still available. That's the one time (IMHO) she seemed to sincerely fall apart.

    Little
    No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man. -Heraclitus Fragments c. 500 BC

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMES
    I wonder why in the world she waited until this particular morning, before a trip...to worry about that stupid stain? I wouldn't imagine that JB would have worn it again anyway, since it was red and Christmasy and Christmas was over, and it would have been to little for her the next year, anyway. My point is....they didn't have alot of time that morning, getting ready for a trip and all, the last thing on her mind should have been a stain on that jumpsuit. I believe that she was obviously trying to confuse the two...the jumpsuit and the red turtleneck....and it worked, because some posters STILL get the two confused.
    It is totally unlike Patsy to worry about a silly stain on one of JB's clothes shortly before going on a plane trip.
    JonBenet probably had a wardrobe the size of other children's playrooms, filled with countless wonderful clothes, and Patsy fusses around with one stain? I don't buy it.
    But why did she feel it necessary to tell the police such a story? I think she wanted to throw sand into the police's eyes, directing attention to the red jumpsuit, while in all probability it was the red turtleneck which she wanted to deflect attention from.

    It seems Patsy initially told the police the truth about JonBenet wearing the red turtleneck to bed. Which indicates the child was probably awake when put in this garment, since she did not wear the turtleneck under the white sequined shirt she had on at the party.

    It was pretty stupid of Patsy to later change her story, alleging JonBenet had been asleep and put to bed in the same clothes she had been wearing to the Whites' party. This just shows once more how chaotic the whole staging was done. Imo it is typical for a panicked parent quickly trying to put a story together to make such mistakes.

    jmo

  8. #68
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    In the JonBenet Ramsey case, American Justice "truly" failed to arrest and charge Patsy Ramsey, because she was as crafty as a cat. Psychology and Confusion was the name of the game she played, with the assistance of District Attorney Alex Hunter, who handed her the police reports on a platter.

    Patsy Ramsey changed her testimony to suit the play she was acting in, and it was so easy for her to change the next time around. Is it any wonder Steve Thomas was disgusted and left.

    She should have been arrested on the spot for changing her police account given on the 26 December, when she told the the police JonBenét had worn a red top. She had to keep playing the game. This was why she threw in the part that she was fussing with a red top on the ironing board. Why would she have to describe it, instead of just saying she was doing some ironing. Aye right Patsy, in a pig's eye you were. Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  9. #69

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    [Ames]:
    I can just see Patsy trying to yank that turtleneck off of JB....those things are VERY hard to get off anyway. She was probably jerking her around trying to remove it...and that's when she hit her head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1
    This is exactly what I think happened too. Patsy was in a rage and threw JonBenét around. One can see a struggle going on, as Patsy dragged her to the bathroom, throwing her in the tub in anger, and her head striking the taps or whatever (?). It's possible, isn't it?
    A poster on another forum mentioned a case where a little girl was slammed sideways into a wall and one area of her skull was semi-punched-out.
    So this would mean that JonBenet's punched-out piece of skull bone wasn't necessarily caused by an object wielded, but could also have occurred as she was slammed against a hard, flat surface, like e. g.a wall or the bathtub.

    I never believed the flashlight was used as the weapon - I think the Ramseys used it in the kitchen to write the ransom note because they didn't want to put the full lights on.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    A poster on another forum mentioned a case where a little girl was slammed sideways into a wall and one area of her skull was semi-punched-out.
    So this would mean that JonBenet's punched-out piece of skull bone wasn't necessarily caused by an object wielded, but could also have occurred as she was slammed against a hard, flat surface, like e. g.a wall or the bathtub.

    I never believed the flashlight was used as the weapon - I think the Ramseys used it in the kitchen to write the ransom note because they didn't want to put the full lights on.
    I agree that it doesn't have to be something that someone hit JonBenet with, that it very well could have been something JonBenet hit her head on. That's why her being flung around fits with what my thoughts are on the red top. She was propelled against something, not that something was propelled at her.

    If I'm wrong it sure won't be the first time

    Little
    No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man. -Heraclitus Fragments c. 500 BC

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little
    It just seemed to me that the red top had a lot of meaning to Patsy. I wish the video of her interview was still available. That's the one time (IMHO) she seemed to sincerely fall apart.

    Little
    What really ticks me off, is the fact that when she sees the photo of the red turtleneck and begins to cry (or PRETENDS to cry)....she is asked if she would like to take a break. WELLLLLL.....after the break, she is not asked another question about that turtleneck. I posted that portion of her interview on here...under "Patsy's Interview...things that were strange or out of place". I will go back and find it. Why wasn't she asked...."Patsy, before the break, I showed you a picture of the red turtleneck on the bathroom counter, and you began to cry. WHY?? What IS IT about that particular turtleneck that made you break down??" But NOOOOO....not another word about that turtleneck was uttered. I have often wondered if Patsy pretended to cry....so that she could "REGROUP"....maybe think of a lie to tell about it or something. She completely lucked up when she wasn't even questioned about it, after the break. How lucky can you get?? Geesh.
    Here we go..

    22 THOMAS HANEY: Number 18?
    23 TRIP DeMUTH: How about the red
    24 item in the upper right-hand corner?
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: I think it's a
    0266
    1 little turtleneck, a little cotton turtleneck, 2 and I had wanted her to wear it to the Whites
    3 and she didn't want to wear it.
    4 TRIP DeMUTH: How did it end up
    5 there?

    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Don't remember. A
    7 crown. Oh, God.
    8 THOMAS HANEY: It's about 10:25.
    9 Do you want to take about a ten-minute break,
    10 how's that sound? We will come back.
    11 PATSY RAMSEY: (Crying.) (INAUDIBLE
    12 RESPONSE.)13 (Recess taken.)


    14 THOMAS HANEY: We are back on tape
    15 and it's about 10:59 a.m.
    16 And before we go back to the
    17 photographs, on the break, there, we were
    18 talking about a letter that you said that -- or
    19 a card, whatever it was, that McReynolds sent.



    From AMES: No you weren't..you were talking about the red turtleneck....remember the RED TURTLENECK? The one that is balled up on the bathroom counter, and Patsy "can't remember" how it ended up there? The one that, when you showed her a picture of it, she broke down crying...and had to take a break? Remember THAT ONE?

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    A poster on another forum mentioned a case where a little girl was slammed sideways into a wall and one area of her skull was semi-punched-out.
    So this would mean that JonBenet's punched-out piece of skull bone wasn't necessarily caused by an object wielded, but could also have occurred as she was slammed against a hard, flat surface, like e. g.a wall or the bathtub.

    I never believed the flashlight was used as the weapon - I think the Ramseys used it in the kitchen to write the ransom note because they didn't want to put the full lights on.

    I agree with everything in your post. I have NEVER thought that JB was hit with anything....I do, however, believe that her head hit something...probably the side of the tub..or toilet. And I also, believe that the only thing that the flashlight was used for was to write the ransom note. (I believe that they got just a "bit" carried away, when they removed the batteries to wipe them clean, also. Now THAT was stupid. An intruder wouldn't have done that...because he wouldn't have had a reason to...the batteries are INSIDE...so therefore, untouched. I believe that the flashlight was left out on purpose though..as part of the staging. Possibly to make it appear that it was the weapon that caused JB's head injury. Looks like it worked, as there are alot of posters that believe that this is what was used. I find it more likely that JB was accidently slung into something...while Patsy was removing her turtleneck (is THIS the reason that Patsy broke down when she saw the photo of the red turtleneck?). I think that Patsy was removing it in a fit of anger...which means yanking and tugging and slinging her around.



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