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  1. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    2,632

    Default I have a question

    How did Schiller know who the Grand Jurors were? How did he contact them at all?

    Did he place an ad in the local paper?

    Where did he find them

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    PATSY RAMSEY WROTE THE RANSOM NOTE
    SHE WOULDN'T DO THAT FOR AN INTRUDER.
    PLEASE READ CHEROKEE'S ANALYSIS

    http://66.98.176.96/~tricia/forums/s...ead.php?t=6404

  2. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    The "Beehive State" It's true. Look it up
    Posts
    5,176

    Default

    Barb, you are so right. How did Schiller know who the Grand Jurors were and how to contact them? Hmmmmmm

    Someone else brought it to Keenan's attention and she must have listened because she is not happy from what I understand.

    If she does nothing than we, as in FFJ, will demand to have the same contact that Schiller did. We want names and contact information released because the ONLY way Schiller could have gotten this info is from someone on the inside. Therefore we will demand the same information and she can't refuse us. Unless she takes action in this case.
    tgrif@xmission.com
    FFJ C/O Tricia Griffith
    6300 N Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H #214
    Park City UT
    84098




    I am unaware of anyone who's profited from exploiting the Ramsey murder over a longer period of time, with a greater disregard for the principles of accuracy and fairness, than the production team of Mills and Tracey.They truly do inhabit a different moral universe from real journalists. It's the difference between journalism and propaganda.
    Alan Prendergast,reporter for Westword

  3. #15

    Default

    The identities of the Grand Jurors has been known forever. Their pics have been published touring the Ramsey House of Horrors, at the JustUs Center, etc. In addition, profiles of the jurors have been published (fir instince ... Juror 'A' enjoys listening to NPR).


    ...YumYum

  4. #16

    Default

    The US Court of Appeals decision ruling against Linda Hoffman-Pugh may hold a possible out for Schiller ... although I'm not clear on whether their decision refers only to witnesses, or also includes jurors.

    The jist of the decision is that Pugh would be free to discuss her testimony:

    1. "...once the criminal investigation was complete". While the Grand Jury investigation was completed, the criminal investigation is NOT closed ... so she could NOT talk about her testimony under this provision.

    2. "...she could petition a state court for a determination that secrecy is no longer required". That may be a possibility for Pugh at some point. But, I'm not sure that this provision would apply to Grand Jurors petitioning to talk. If so, Schiller could have secretly made petition and been granted permission to talk to Grand Jurors. Sounds unlikely, but this IS Colorado.


    BTW ... here's the URL to the article 'splainin' this:

    http://www.rcfp.org/news/2003/0808hoffma.html


    ...YumYum

  5. #17

    Default

    ... just a quick backup to my previous post regarding the fact that the identities of Grand Jurors is widely known. In fact, James Plese was the grand jury's foreman. How do I know? Cuz Matt Sebastian published it along with other GJ stuff here:

    http://www.bouldernews.com/extra/ram...9/15aside.html


    There's lots of other stuff like this ... but this should suffice to make my point. Nonetheless, it would STILL be illegal to contact these jurors for the purpose of getting info about their knowledge of proceedingd.


    ...YumYum

  6. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    The "Beehive State" It's true. Look it up
    Posts
    5,176

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YumYum012
    The identities of the Grand Jurors has been known forever. Their pics have been published touring the Ramsey House of Horrors, at the JustUs Center, etc. In addition, profiles of the jurors have been published (fir instince ... Juror 'A' enjoys listening to NPR).


    ...YumYum
    Their names were published too?
    tgrif@xmission.com
    FFJ C/O Tricia Griffith
    6300 N Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H #214
    Park City UT
    84098




    I am unaware of anyone who's profited from exploiting the Ramsey murder over a longer period of time, with a greater disregard for the principles of accuracy and fairness, than the production team of Mills and Tracey.They truly do inhabit a different moral universe from real journalists. It's the difference between journalism and propaganda.
    Alan Prendergast,reporter for Westword

  7. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    The "Beehive State" It's true. Look it up
    Posts
    5,176

    Default

    Yum Yum, Colorado law is very clear. The Grand Jurors are not allowed to talk about the case. That is black and white.

    You may be correct in that Schiller might have slipped through some hole but the fact remains, Grand Jurors in Colorado can't talk about what they witness in the Grand Jury Room. That's why this is so outrages.
    tgrif@xmission.com
    FFJ C/O Tricia Griffith
    6300 N Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H #214
    Park City UT
    84098




    I am unaware of anyone who's profited from exploiting the Ramsey murder over a longer period of time, with a greater disregard for the principles of accuracy and fairness, than the production team of Mills and Tracey.They truly do inhabit a different moral universe from real journalists. It's the difference between journalism and propaganda.
    Alan Prendergast,reporter for Westword

  8. #20

    Default

    Tricia, the names are published in the URL I put on the last post. Their names are public domain.

    And you may well be right about secrecy for jurors being a hard and fast rules. But I had thought that it was for witnesses in Colorado too ... but it clearly is NOT. So I was just suggesting that there MAY be a loophole that Schiller could legally exploit. I hope that's NOT the case, and he gets nailed, or a clear explanation is made publically. Becuz as some have said, this could open the floodgates to reporters talking to other jurors.

    Unfortunately, I have NOT seen the videos being discussed here, so I don't even know the precise nature of the claims being made ... and obviously can't vouche for their accuracy.


    ...YumYum

  9. #21

    Default

    Here's another interesting Matt Sebastian article from Dec 2001:

    http://www.thedailycamera.com/extra/...1/17ajury.html


    In it he suggests that some Grand Jurors have contacted the press to get some of their stories out ... only to be rebuffed by the reporters. Here's the reference from Matt's story:

    In the more than two years since the grand jury inquest wrapped up, no juror has gone public. But this year, sources told the Daily Camera, at least three have tested the waters only to be rebuffed by unwilling listeners who feared prosecution.

    Perhaps Schiller let them talk to him ... at his own potential peril. Peril? Here's what Matt said:

    People have good reason not to talk to the Ramsey jurors.

    Colorado law forbids grand jurors from discussing an investigation until an indictment is announced or a report released. Neither happened in the Ramsey case.

    Furthermore, Boulder District Judge Daniel C. Hale issued an order on the first day the grand jury met in the Ramsey case that bars anyone from contacting the jurors about their service.

    And on the jury's last day, Judge Morris Sandstead reiterated that order. In his discharge to the jurors, Sandstead reminded the panel that "the oath of secrecy that you swore at the time that you began your grand jury service remains in effect."

    Any violation of the order, either by jurors or people attempting to talk to jurors, will result in criminal contempt charges, Sandstead warned.



    And Mike Kane had THIS to say:

    The main purpose of grand jury secrecy has always been to keep witnesses candid," Kane said. "There's almost a compact with witnesses that when they come in, what they say is not going to breach those four walls.


    And Matt gives a hint as to what might happen IF the press talked to a Grand Juror:

    Should jurors decide to disregard the court order and discuss the Ramsey case, they wouldn't be targeted by prosecutors, said Bill Nagel, Boulder County's assistant district attorney. Instead, any contempt charges would be levied by Chief Judge Roxanne Bailin, who oversaw the grand jury.

    The charges carry a penalty of fines and jail time.

    "When there's information to believe someone violated a court order, the court usually issues a 'show cause' order," Nagel said. "In effect, they'd be saying, 'Come on in and give me your side of the story.'"

    Legal experts say that rarely happens.

    It didn't two years ago when Daily Camera reporters interviewed four former grand jurors about the failed investigation of the 1983 slaying of Sid Wells.

    The Camera published the jurors' comments some critical of the district attorney's handling of the case in four separate articles. Nothing happened.

    Nor did anyone react when a Camera reporter contacted alternates on the Ramsey jury after their dismissal.



    It's a good article, with much more of interest ... well worth reading in full.


    ...YumYum

  10. #22

    Default

    I just want to reiterate this point so that there is no misunderstanding ... the Matt Sebastian article linked to in my last post is EXCEPTIONAL. It's LONG, and is FILLED with GREAT STUFF ... from top to bottom.

    PLEASE READ IT!!!

    Here it is again:


    http://www.thedailycamera.com/extra/...1/17ajury.html



    ...YumYum

  11. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    2,632

    Default

    One also has to wonder if this grand juror was paid by Schiller, et al?

    Is that illegal???

    Perhaps, for the right price, some others will speak out. It seems in this case, money is the only motivation for so many.

    If it's good enough for Schiller, it's good enough for anyone I would think
    PATSY RAMSEY WROTE THE RANSOM NOTE
    SHE WOULDN'T DO THAT FOR AN INTRUDER.
    PLEASE READ CHEROKEE'S ANALYSIS

    http://66.98.176.96/~tricia/forums/s...ead.php?t=6404

  12. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    8,381

    Default

    Isn't it amazing,Barbara, these jurors have to shut up, and yet District Attorney Alex Hunter supplied Lawrence Schiller with Detective Steve Thomas' police notes for his damned book. There is something far wrong with this system? Why wasn't Alex Hunter hauled over the coals for this endeavour? Was he untouchable?
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.



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