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  1. #1

    Default Crime scene pics--again

    Well, I'm pulling my hair out tonight. I can't find a nearby thread that isn't already long to bring this up, so thought I'd just start a new one about something we have been wondering about recently--Bev at WS one B said something about the barbecue grill and a hose being on top of the grate outside the window. I couldn't find a picture of that, and I looked for hours, but now I'm looking for something else and have found something that might be what we're looking for...and something I wasn't [hahaha I told you I'm pulling my hair out]:

    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...408302,00.html

    These are from the PowerPoint, copies of the actual crime scene photos, so they were taken by LE on the 26th or in the next few days, I think it's reasonable to assume. Scrolling down the page, here is a photo that has a barbecue grill with a black cover over it, but it's the side shot and we can't tell the exact position of the grill in relation to the grate:

    http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/...hm/img004.html

    Now, I'm sure there MUST be crime scene photos, or at least one, from in front of the grate, showing whether or not the barbecue grill would have blocked someone from picking the grate up without moving it. Bev's idea was that THE INTRUDER WOULD HAVE TO HAVE MOVED THE BARBECUE GRILL BACK ONTO THE GRATE AFTER LEAVING. I have no idea about a hose pipe, and I don't have the PowerPoint to reference pictures not broadcase before, so we have no way of knowing if there is something to this or not. But I did find something that is strange in the following picture: notice the black blob at the right lower corner of the picture. Is that the black cover over the grill?

    http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/...hm/img023.html

    OK, now that I have a new computer and after six months have actually managed to find the magnifier on my interface page, I made the above picture 400 percent, and look in the bottom LEFT corner...is that a cord with a noose? It has a knot. Am I seeing things? This HAD to have been discussed before. But with my bad eyes and my old computer, I either missed it or completely forgot it.

    So...to wrap up...black grill cover hanging over grate...could be something, maybe not, without a different crime scene photo, is there a way to tell?

    Noose with cord in window well?

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  2. #2

    Default

    I think that cord in the window well might be a bow, possibly from a package? All those packing peanuts in the corner of the window well...did a box get turned over and the wind swept them into the well? If so, maybe it also swept that cord from the same package?

    I have no idea, just guessing. I hope LE kept that cord with the loop.

    Here is another picture I mentioned earlier, on another thread...discussing the undies and Patsy packing in plastic bags that morning. I was thinking about this picture, because I've always wondered about the bag at the bottom of the spiral stair in this picture...is that the one Patsy was packing that morning? I thought it was black, but it's white with something dark inside:

    http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/...hm/img074.html

    Now, kick your magnifiers up to 400 Xs and then some more, and look at the table in the right foreground at the bottom of the pic: anybody see a book on a pad...and then on the other side of that, in a pink patterned image, what looks like a present with A WHITE CORD LOOSELY WRAPPED AROUND IT?

    Just curious.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  3. #3
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    Default black blob

    Could be the photographers knee.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Texan
    Could be the photographers knee.
    Yeah, I backed up the magnification and the picture was clearer and it looks like it's either the knee or maybe a shoulder...?

    Oh, well, still not going to find that picture, am I?

    Any ideas on the cord and loop in the window well?

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    New York, NY
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    755

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase
    Now, kick your magnifiers up to 400 Xs and then some more, and look at the table in the right foreground at the bottom of the pic: anybody see a book on a pad...and then on the other side of that, in a pink patterned image, what looks like a present with A WHITE CORD LOOSELY WRAPPED AROUND IT?

    Just curious.
    It does look like some kind of cord on the other side of that object.



    The red and white piece of clothing sticking out of the plastic bag at the foot of the stairs does seem to have the same color distribution of red and white as the sweater Patsy wore on the 23rd.


  6. #6

    Default

    Oh, thanks so much, Why Nut. That's a great blowup. Yeah, it looks like on the end of the cord it's a bit frayed, doesn't it? I'm trying to figure out if it's in fact cord vs ribbon. Three dimensional, like cord. Because I don't think ribbon frays in that fan shape at the end, does it? Nylon or natural fibers do, though.

    And I'm glad you mentioned that red cloth behind the white plastic bag, because I was wondering about that myself. I was thinking maybe a knitted afghan or something, but it does look like that sweater you posted.

    In fact, I was noticing in that white plastic bag, when I blew it way up, it looked like there was one large item in it, with consistent patterns of color like a comforter or quilt, something like that.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  7. #7

    Default

    You know, Why Nut, I kicked your magnified picture up another 100 % and I swear, that's a cord on that package. It's white cord, frayed on the ends.

    If so, wouldn't you know it? Hiding in plain sight. Did the intruder bring presents for the family as well?

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #8

    Default

    The black blob in the one photo looks like a knee.

    The present on the table next to the book looks to me like a gift bag rather than a wrapped present.

    Regarding the grate: Based on the number of adjacent bricks and on the approximate size of the windows, I estimate the grate is about 5 feet by 18 inches. The McNichols steel products catalog I have says that the lightest steel grating available weighs 9.8 pounds per square foot. That means that this grate probably weighs about 75 pounds. Did Smitty pick that up when he did his scoot-in demo?

    Why would intruder-man go in this way when there are at least five doors to go through? Why would he assume that the doors were alarmed but not the windows?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
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    Canada
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    Default

    The red and white item is actually just behind the bag, not in it.

    The bbq photo lightened up.

    Looks like a gift bag, Wombat.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Elle_1; August 4, 2006, 7:05 pm at Fri Aug 4 19:05:45 UTC 2006.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1
    The red and white item is actualy just behind the bag, not in it.

    The bbq photo lightened up.
    You do appear to be correct about the red and white item. It raises a question about why whatever it is is not in the bag, making it look like both a last-minute takealong item and something that Patsy was okay with getting dirty since it drags on the floor right in an area where people's feet land often.

  11. #11
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    New York, NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase
    Well, I'm pulling my hair out tonight. I can't find a nearby thread that isn't already long to bring this up, so thought I'd just start a new one about something we have been wondering about recently--Bev at WS one B said something about the barbecue grill and a hose being on top of the grate outside the window. I couldn't find a picture of that, and I looked for hours, but now I'm looking for something else and have found something that might be what we're looking for...and something I wasn't [hahaha I told you I'm pulling my hair out]:
    I went looking to see if I could find a picture of the grate with hose and grill over it, and found nothing to fit that description from the day of the crime. However, I did find a picture of a poster from one of the forums who paid a visit to the house many years ago, and took pictures of himself. Perhaps BobC or Wilton/Anderson? Anyway, as it happens, that picture of him contains both grate, hose, and grill, so maybe that is what Bev was thinking of.



    There was, indeed, a picture of a hose outside a basement window from the day of the crime, but it was outside the basement bathroom window, not the window-well window:


  12. #12

    Default

    The grate is narrower than I thought so it probably "only" weighs 50 lbs. I still don't know why somebody would go in that narrow opening instead of a door.

    Love the black cat in the photo!



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