Crime scene pics--again

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by koldkase, Aug 4, 2006.

  1. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Well, I'm pulling my hair out tonight. I can't find a nearby thread that isn't already long to bring this up, so thought I'd just start a new one about something we have been wondering about recently--Bev at WS one B said something about the barbecue grill and a hose being on top of the grate outside the window. I couldn't find a picture of that, and I looked for hours, but now I'm looking for something else and have found something that might be what we're looking for...and something I wasn't [hahaha I told you I'm pulling my hair out]:

    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_408302,00.html

    These are from the PowerPoint, copies of the actual crime scene photos, so they were taken by LE on the 26th or in the next few days, I think it's reasonable to assume. Scrolling down the page, here is a photo that has a barbecue grill with a black cover over it, but it's the side shot and we can't tell the exact position of the grill in relation to the grate:

    http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/art/extra/ramsey/thm/img004.html

    Now, I'm sure there MUST be crime scene photos, or at least one, from in front of the grate, showing whether or not the barbecue grill would have blocked someone from picking the grate up without moving it. Bev's idea was that THE INTRUDER WOULD HAVE TO HAVE MOVED THE BARBECUE GRILL BACK ONTO THE GRATE AFTER LEAVING. I have no idea about a hose pipe, and I don't have the PowerPoint to reference pictures not broadcase before, so we have no way of knowing if there is something to this or not. But I did find something that is strange in the following picture: notice the black blob at the right lower corner of the picture. Is that the black cover over the grill?

    http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/art/extra/ramsey/thm/img023.html

    OK, now that I have a new computer and after six months have actually managed to find the magnifier on my interface page, I made the above picture 400 percent, and look in the bottom LEFT corner...is that a cord with a noose? It has a knot. Am I seeing things? This HAD to have been discussed before. But with my bad eyes and my old computer, I either missed it or completely forgot it.

    So...to wrap up...black grill cover hanging over grate...could be something, maybe not, without a different crime scene photo, is there a way to tell?

    Noose with cord in window well?
     
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I think that cord in the window well might be a bow, possibly from a package? All those packing peanuts in the corner of the window well...did a box get turned over and the wind swept them into the well? If so, maybe it also swept that cord from the same package?

    I have no idea, just guessing. I hope LE kept that cord with the loop.

    Here is another picture I mentioned earlier, on another thread...discussing the undies and Patsy packing in plastic bags that morning. I was thinking about this picture, because I've always wondered about the bag at the bottom of the spiral stair in this picture...is that the one Patsy was packing that morning? I thought it was black, but it's white with something dark inside:

    http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/art/extra/ramsey/thm/img074.html

    Now, kick your magnifiers up to 400 Xs and then some more, and look at the table in the right foreground at the bottom of the pic: anybody see a book on a pad...and then on the other side of that, in a pink patterned image, what looks like a present with A WHITE CORD LOOSELY WRAPPED AROUND IT?

    Just curious.
     
  3. Texan

    Texan FFJ Senior Member

    black blob

    Could be the photographers knee.
     
  4. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Yeah, I backed up the magnification and the picture was clearer and it looks like it's either the knee or maybe a shoulder...?

    Oh, well, still not going to find that picture, am I?

    Any ideas on the cord and loop in the window well?
     
  5. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    It does look like some kind of cord on the other side of that object.

    [​IMG]

    The red and white piece of clothing sticking out of the plastic bag at the foot of the stairs does seem to have the same color distribution of red and white as the sweater Patsy wore on the 23rd.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Oh, thanks so much, Why Nut. That's a great blowup. Yeah, it looks like on the end of the cord it's a bit frayed, doesn't it? I'm trying to figure out if it's in fact cord vs ribbon. Three dimensional, like cord. Because I don't think ribbon frays in that fan shape at the end, does it? Nylon or natural fibers do, though.

    And I'm glad you mentioned that red cloth behind the white plastic bag, because I was wondering about that myself. I was thinking maybe a knitted afghan or something, but it does look like that sweater you posted.

    In fact, I was noticing in that white plastic bag, when I blew it way up, it looked like there was one large item in it, with consistent patterns of color like a comforter or quilt, something like that.
     
  7. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    You know, Why Nut, I kicked your magnified picture up another 100 % and I swear, that's a cord on that package. It's white cord, frayed on the ends.

    If so, wouldn't you know it? Hiding in plain sight. Did the intruder bring presents for the family as well?
     
  8. wombat

    wombat Member

    The black blob in the one photo looks like a knee.

    The present on the table next to the book looks to me like a gift bag rather than a wrapped present.

    Regarding the grate: Based on the number of adjacent bricks and on the approximate size of the windows, I estimate the grate is about 5 feet by 18 inches. The McNichols steel products catalog I have says that the lightest steel grating available weighs 9.8 pounds per square foot. That means that this grate probably weighs about 75 pounds. Did Smitty pick that up when he did his scoot-in demo?

    Why would intruder-man go in this way when there are at least five doors to go through? Why would he assume that the doors were alarmed but not the windows?
     
  9. Elle

    Elle Member

    The red and white item is actually just behind the bag, not in it.

    The bbq photo lightened up.

    Looks like a gift bag, Wombat.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2006
  10. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    You do appear to be correct about the red and white item. It raises a question about why whatever it is is not in the bag, making it look like both a last-minute takealong item and something that Patsy was okay with getting dirty since it drags on the floor right in an area where people's feet land often.
     
  11. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    I went looking to see if I could find a picture of the grate with hose and grill over it, and found nothing to fit that description from the day of the crime. However, I did find a picture of a poster from one of the forums who paid a visit to the house many years ago, and took pictures of himself. Perhaps BobC or Wilton/Anderson? Anyway, as it happens, that picture of him contains both grate, hose, and grill, so maybe that is what Bev was thinking of.

    [​IMG]

    There was, indeed, a picture of a hose outside a basement window from the day of the crime, but it was outside the basement bathroom window, not the window-well window:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. wombat

    wombat Member

    The grate is narrower than I thought so it probably "only" weighs 50 lbs. I still don't know why somebody would go in that narrow opening instead of a door.

    Love the black cat in the photo!
     
  13. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    Everytime I have to look at the disclaimer on those crime scene photos, it just instills further in my mind just how far Smit will go to tamper with this investigation. So flipping blatant and enabled. :burnedup:

    Money is everything in this case and JonBenet just can't compete. A runner-up just like her mommy for the big prize. Shame on all who allow this.

    RR
     
  14. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    LHP said she saw a package from a few days before that had the same cord wrapped around it.
     
  15. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Oh, thankyouthankyouthankyou, WhyNut. I remember when BobC and a two others went to Boulder and took those pictures, but I have not seen them for years. Did he post them at CS? I can't get anything at CS anymore.

    But I do believe that's the pic Bev was speaking of. So I can put that to rest. Thank you again.

    Now, Punisher, where did LHP say that?

    As to the cord on the table, it appears to be round cord, now that my eyes are rested, but it's not possible to tell for sure, is it?
     
  16. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    "Now, Punisher, where did LHP say that?"

    Her infamous book chapter.
     
  17. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    Is that BobC? I will tag that series with his name since I recall that may have been the case, and obviously, sir, if you read this and dispute my findings, let me know and I will correct this.

    In the meantime, I have added the rest of that particular series to my Flickr set.

    Edited to add:

    Since I am learning this site's interface along with you all, I can point out a new thing I just learned. If you want to look at the Flickr pictures, and you do not want to scroll through each individual picture, click the icon to the left of the big plus (+) at the upper right of the viewing area. That icon is a small screen, and if you click it you can see all of the pictures on my Flickr set as thumbnails and can then choose the one you want to look at right away.
     
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    Great photos Why_Nut. Nice and clear. I have a flat panel and I had to reduce the brightness on the screen. Bright lights = migraines, so any photo that's dark, I have to brighten it up. Don't need to touch these two.


    Don't you think the black cat's body looks quite long, Wombat?
     
  19. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I haven't gotten to your site yet, Why Nut. Whew! I'm searching and typing as fast as I can. And I still hope to get to Doc Miller's trial transcript this weekend. But as soon as I can, I am looking forward to it.

    Do you have these pics? PLEASE get that pic of the black back with the rope in it. I have hunted that pic down no less than 20 times. But it's not clear what the source is, and I'm not sure that it IS a stolen crime scene pic, as Lovely Pigeon believes. Notice the bed is stripped. In the crime scene pics, that's not the case. Also, the carpet has already been cut for forensics. It could be LE documenting what they took, but since it doesn't have crime scene printed on it, I find the source as questionable as the Bloomies undies Wood gave to Keenan. How will we ever know the truth in this case with all the various spin blowing around?

    http://www.geocities.com/lovelypigeon/bedroom_jar_guest.html
     
  20. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    http://www.geocities.com/lovelypigeon/bedroom_jar_guest.html

    I wanted to bring the black bag at the foot of JAR's bed to this thread because remember that Carnes wrote in her opinion, Wolf v Ramsey, that there were paper bag fibers VACUUMED from JonBenet's bed that came from the "paper" bag with the rope found in JAR's bedroom. Carnes also stated that those same fibers were found in the body bag with JonBenet.

    Now this is why I resent Smit having control over which of the PowerPoint crime scene pictures are available to the public and which ones aren't. Was he lying to Carnes about a "paper" bag containing the rope? Did he have a crime scene picture of it? Or is this picture with the black bag a rogue "stolen crime scene picture"? Is it nothing more than a picture taken by someone else after LE released the house and the black bag was staged for it? How can we ever know for sure?

    Michael Kane stated on TV that he remembered the bag with the rope in JAR's room to be a duffle type bag. This would be consistent with this picture. But what to make of the bag fibers Carnes is so sure is evidence of an intruder?

    I think it's fair to say that forensics vacuumed a lot of places in that house, and a few stray bag fibers being transferred from one location's marked vacuum bag to another's doesn't seem to me to be that impossible. Unless Carnes SAW a crime scene picture of that rope in a brown paper bag in JAR's room, I think we have a better explanation.

    Someone here...wombat? JustChillun?...reminded us that LE puts paper bags on the hands and feet of bodies before they're transported to keep any evidence on them from being tainted or lost. Paper bags are used because the body won't sweat in them like plastic, again, aiding in maintaining the evidence. We looked it up when we noticed the picture of JonBenet's body at the home, with her hands in front of her, raised but not high like that tabloid drawing with them thrown back on each side. In this picture, she was lying on her side, and there they were: brown paper bags on her hands. Then we found a reference to that...maybe the autopsy report? Somewhere, anyhow.

    So is this ANOTHER piece of evidence Smit used to mislead Carnes to his "intruder"? It sure sounds like Smit jumping to his loopy conclusions.

    But now you know why I want to see the full PowerPoint. It's not fair that Smit can use LE case files which belong to the people of Colorado, to compose a personal slide show which he has used even to influence a judge's decision in a libel suit, and then to distribute it as a private citizen into the public domain, but only to those he chooses, where it is censored for their commercial interests. In such a case, I feel it is in the public's interest to evaluate the same information Smit and his followers have, as he uses it to put forth his personal theory with government information which he has been given control disperses as propaganda.

    But in Colorado, they don't much care for the law. They just make it up as they go.
     
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