The White Pineapple Bowl

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Why_Nut, Aug 27, 2006.

  1. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    For the record, the famous white bowl in which pineapple was found in crime scene photos taken after the morning of December 26th 1996 on the breakfast room table appears on the same table during the party on December 23rd when the Ramseys were hosting a gingerbread-house assembly for friends and children.

    December 23rd:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    December 26th or after:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Notice the size of the spoon in the bowl compared to the box of Kleenex on the right. You know how big those boxes are. The spoon is clearly smaller than the box. Also, look at the bowl in the context of the first picture at the top of this post, look at the bowl compared to the size of the children in the picture, and then put that spoon in that bowl, and judge for yourself whether you think that, for example, the girl to the right in the photo would have been holding an extremely large serving spoon, or a more ordinarily-sized tea- or tablespoon.
     
  2. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Well, I don't know, but I am putting in my bet that the white bowl contained marshmellows at the gingerbread house party.
     
  3. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    Marshmallows would make sense. I think another relevant aspect of this correlation of item to location found across a span of three days, though, is to narrow down considerably the period of time when both Patsy and Burke would have had the opportunity to deposit their identifiable fingerprints on the bowl. If the bowl was being used on the 23rd, and it was washed after the party, prints deposited before that time would have been eliminated. So the case requires a theory that puts both Patsy's and Burke's prints on the bowl on December 24th or the 25th.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. tylin

    tylin Banned

    Why_Nut,
    You are amazing. :reporter:
    I'm tickled to death to see the pictures you so graciously posted.(BTW- I've never seen the pic of the kids at the Dec. 23 party.) I'm really surprised at the size of the white bowl and also the spoon...and to think for all these years, I thought the pineapple bowl and spoon were large.

    Good question about the date(s) when Bruke and Patsy would have been in the kitchen together. Of course, I think they were in the kitchen together Christmas night after returning from the White's but I don't think anyone knows that for sure except, Burke, Patsy and John and of course JBR.
     
  5. Wenchie

    Wenchie Member

    It looks like the Ramsey's had a set of white dinnerware that they used for everyday.
     
  6. philmein

    philmein Member

    Well, about the size of the spoon (I don't get what the fuss is about) I know some children are given a larger than normal utensil so as to avoid spillage, messes etc... Some kids have a difficult time using smaller cutlery than what is called for and using a larger one makes it easier to pick food portions up. It's no big deal for the parents or the kid, whatever works best, they'll learn in time etc... Yes, I WAS one of those kids and my 5 year old is too... :clap:
     
  7. YumYum012

    YumYum012 Member

    I zoomed in on the "empty " white bowl, and am convinced that it has shredded coconut in it. That was my guess, so I did a very quick Google image search, and sure enough, about the third page I visited suggested using coconut for snow.

    I haven't searched further, but would bet that that is a common item used on gingerbread houses. And you can bet that the idea was one that Patsy got from the internet, or from someone like Martha Stewart's TV show. Perhaps a search of the Marta Stewart site would yeild some resullts, but I've gotta go right now. The more I think about it ... the gingerbread house project just SCREAMS Martha and Patsy. I'd like to find Martha's 1996 episode descriptions ... cuz I'd bet BobC's left nut that one of her Christmas Holiday shows feature just such a project.

    Here is the site mentioning the coconut:

    http://www.allysgoodies.com/gingerbreadhouses.html


    And on a separate note related to Patsy's Foundation paintings (on another thread) ... check out the WIDE VARIETY of signatures that she uses. There are several different styles ... some of which handwriting analysts might be interested in. At the very least, the variety might suggest some very wide mood swings, or even a little schizo in her personality. Sorry to post this here, but I'm in a BIG rush! Use the zoom at the Patsy Foundation site to zoom the sigs ... just place the cursor over the sig, right click, then click on "Zoom In". Do it as often as needed to get the size ya need.

    Later.


    ...YumYum
     
  8. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Another thing to think about: the Ramseys said they ate their traditional pancake breakfast that morning after opening the presents and Santa.

    Surely someone cleaned off the breakfast dishes, since they weren't on the table the next morning. Were they washed in the dishwasher or left in there unwashed?

    If this bowl was on the table still from the 23rd, that would seem a long time not to take it off the table. Plus, they were leaving town. Seems like Patsy would have washed the dishes, ran the dishwasher for the breakfast dishes before they left for the White's party. That would have been easier than doing it late, when they're all very tired and need to get up early for the Charlevoix trip.

    So...why leave a dirty bowl on the table for two plus days when you're cleaning dishes and the table from breakfast, and you're going out of town?

    Wasn't LHP there the day of the 23rd party, with her little girl? Didn't she stay for the Santa stuff, too? Didn't LHP help clean up afterwards? Seems like I remember she did stay for the party.

    And I know I'm not trained in old money graces, but I always try to help clean up with the hostess after a big party if she needs help. These friends seem to have been close, so maybe some of them helped clean up the party stuff and load the dishwasher?

    I guess my point is, I don't believe that bowl would remain on the table for 2+ days. I think either it was washed and then gotten back out on the 25th at some point after breakfast, or...could it have been part of breakfast?

    Tea seems like a lunch drink to me. But some people take tea in the morning, hot, like with this bag.
     
  9. tylin

    tylin Banned

    koldkase,
    Not only that but one other important fact is that pineapple was found in JBR's tummy as per the autopsy. What is the likelyhood that Patsy would have left pineapple (in cream) on the table all day long? I say slim to none.
     
  10. YumYum012

    YumYum012 Member

    Damn ... I couldn't get away without doing one last Google search ... on "gingerbread house coconut". Got 143,000 hits. Anyone wanting to explore can check that out.

    Outta here ...

    ...YumYUm
     
  11. cindysnow3

    cindysnow3 Member

    Thank you so much Why Nut your're such an :angel:
     
  12. Cranberry

    Cranberry Member

    Thank you Why Nut for the photo. I know you would get us the prints and dna off the spoon and tea bag if you could. I have to think about this bowl set up some more.
     
  13. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I think your idea of coconut might be what was in the bowl, as well, YY.

    The thing is, I was trying to see what types of candies and stuff were on the gingerbread houses, but I just can't get a clear picture of what exactly is on them.
     
  14. sue

    sue Member

    About the 'Gingerbread House Party', my bet is on Family Fun Magazine. We had a subscription to it around that time and a Gingerbread House Party would have been just the sort of thing that would be in it. It was all full of crafty type things to do with your kids and different party ideas (many of them involved making something).
    Here's what the website says about the magazine:
    Another place with Gingerbread Houses is Good Housekeeping Magazine. They might not suggest a party, but each year, they feature Gingerbread Houses in their December issue, with recipes and pictures of houses that people submitted to the magazine.

    For comparative sizing, besides the tissue box, the tea bag should be able to be used. All the tea bags I have in the house right now (I measured) are about 1 inch square. I don't know if many (any) were bigger then, but someone might be able to find out.
     
  15. YumYum012

    YumYum012 Member

    The Martha Stewart site actually SELL$ gingerbread house "kits" and describes using shredded coconut for snow or groundcover. Leave it white for snow, or dye it green for grass.

    BTW ... she DID have at least one Christmas episode featuring the making of a gingerbread house ... but I couldn't date the program (it was long ago). And I'm pretty sure that it was in Martha Stewart Living magazine, which I'm convinced that Patsy would have subscibed to.

    One guy took a shot a Martha's excessing Holiday recommendations by publishing her Christmas activities schedule which shows that on such and such a date, "Install plumbing in Gingerbread house".

    Martha ALSO did a muppet episode where she shows the Muppets how to make a gingerbread house (again, I couldn't date it).

    Lastly ... she had published a Christmas Decorations booK (published in 1993) which also featured gingerbread houses. I wouldn't be surprised if Patsy got her excessive Christmas decorating inspirations from just such a book ... and the timing is certainly right. Patsy and Martha were two peas in a pod (probably conjoined twins, separated at birth).


    I know that I've gone off on a tangent here, and it's not important. But for what it's worth, I'm CONVINCED that it's shredded cocnut in that condiment bowl.


    ...YumYum
     
  16. Ginja

    Ginja Member

    My instincts

    They cleaned up after the party on the 23rd. Yes, Linda Pugh attended the party with her daughter. But I believe she also came back to the house on the 24th to finish up cleaning and getting the house ready for Christmas Day. And wasn't there some discrepancy as to Patsy leaving a check for Linda?

    For sure, Patsy pulled the clean bowl out of the cupboard to fill with pineapple for the kids' snack on Christmas night. Interesting, the size of the spoon. What else was found inside the dishwasher? I'm thinking the big spoon was a serving spoon for the kids to spoon out their pineapple. Maybe they were supposed to spoon the snack into smaller bowls for themselves and didn't, raising Patsy's ire? JonBenet most likely used her fingers and Burke used the big spoon. Could the raging fight have started from a disregard of table manners?

    Something was building up in the Ramsey house that night. It obviously started when they returned from the Whites and the kids had a chance to feed on at least a few pieces of pineapple.
     
  17. Why_Nut

    Why_Nut FFJ Senior Member

    No, I think there is no evidence Linda went back to the house on the 24th. Her normal schedule was Monday, Wednesday, Friday, with occasional Saturdays, and with her Monday visit on the 23rd, she had shown up when she normally would have, party or not. She also had other clients she cleaned for, so she probably had to spend the 24th at one of her other cleaning jobs instead of on-call for Patsy.
     
  18. YumYum012

    YumYum012 Member

    I believe that the bowl is a very small condiment bowl ... and hence, a regular teaspoon looks unusually LARGE. Note the pedestal-style of the bowl ... that screams small specialty bowl ... and something that might well have been left "out" after the cleanup on the 24th. Stuff like that isn't used often, and is relegated to some hard to reach spot for longterm storage, and was probably left in the dishwasher, or on the countertop until someone took the time to put it away. That would make it easy access, and a good choice for a midnight snack bowl.

    Now check out the GLASS with the teabag in it on the other thread on this subject. IF the bowl is a small condiment bowl, then it looks like the glass might well be an undersized glass ... a child's glass. And that would explain why the teabag tag looks sooOOooo unusually LARGE. In fact, the tag LOOKs like it would fit comfortably in the bowl of the spoon ... a teaspoon.

    This screams of a SMALL child's midnight snack ... and NOT Burke's. Boys at Burke's age don't like using stuff like children's glasses.

    The Pineapple remains a critically important piece of this puzzle.

    Just my opinion ...


    ...YumYum
     
  19. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    This is one of the discrepancies in the case. According to one post by jameson, Patsy phoned Linda and told her she wasn't required. According to another source (cannot remember if this was Linda HP or Patsy herself), LHP phoned to say she couldn't come.

    She was supposed to go back on 24th to help clear up after the party. The above contradictions were dicussed when it was suggested that Linda's failure to go and help clear-up had put Patsy under stress. jameson was of course trying to show that Patsy was on top of it all :) I have that discussion saved.
     
  20. YumYum012

    YumYum012 Member


    You may be right, WhyNut. But of all the people who attended the party on the 23rd, wouldn't Linda be the person most likely to do a big share of the cleanup afterward?

    I'd like to ask Linda bout the bowls, spoons, child glass, etc ... and other aspects of Ramsey homelife. Was pineapple served on the 23rd? Would leftover pineapple typically be stored in the fridge by the Ramseys? WAS there pineapple leftover from the 23rd and stored? Many, MANY questions that Linda might have answers to.



    ...YumYum
     
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