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  1. #25
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    Klonopin is also used "off label" as a mood stabilizer for bipolar disorder. It can be particularly beneficial for the sleep distubances associated with bipolar. Some of its side effect can include (emphasis mine)

    Less Common: Anxiety; confusion (may be more common in the elderly); fast, pounding, or irregular heartbeat; lack of memory of events taking place after benzodiazepine is taken (may be more common with triazolam) ; mental depression

    Rare: Abnormal thinking, including disorientation, delusions (holding false beliefs that cannot be changed by facts), or loss of sense of reality; agitation; behavior changes, including aggressive behavior, bizarre behavior, decreased inhibition, or outbursts of anger; convulsions (seizures); hallucinations (seeing, hearing, or feeling things that are not there); hypotension (low blood pressure); muscle weakness; skin rash or itching; sore throat, fever, and chills; trouble in sleeping; ulcers or sores in mouth or throat (continuing); uncontrolled movements of body, including the eyes; unusual bleeding or bruising; unusual excitement, nervousness, or irritability; unusual tiredness or weakness (severe); yellow eyes or skin

    Some of these possible side effects are one of the reasons we put my 10 year old bilpolar daughter on Depakote (anti-siezure med) for mood stabilization and Clonidine (non-addictive blood pressure med) for bipolar-related sleep disturbances. Not trying to slam Klonopin--the benefits can far outweigh the risks for many people. However, with the violent outbursts we've experienced when my daughter's in the manic phase, we just couldn't risk any acceleration of the aggression!

    Appreciate the direction this thread's taking. I've long been a PDI, but coming to grips with the WHY is what so many resist. Perhaps if there were a mental/physical health reason behind that kind of rage or delusional thinking, people might be more accepting that it COULD happen.
    JanPat

  2. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbara
    Klonopin is a pretty common medication for the people I work with and I will say that very often the dosages get adjusted because of the excessive drooling that is one of the main side effects, at least with the population that I work with.

    Do you work with MS patients, Barbara? I can tell you from experience that Klonopin is a highly prescribed drug for MS patients. With MS, you lose the ability to move your muscles, but your brain still causes your muscles to cramp due to lack of use. Klonopin helps greatly with the muscle spasms, and yes drooling is a problem. Perhaps you remember that skank wife of Richard Pryor dragging him out in public so he could drool all over himself in front of the cameras.

  3. #27

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    Curiouser and curiouser!

  4. #28

    Default Think I wanted to forget this.

    Quote Originally Posted by JanPat
    Klonopin is also used "off label" as a mood stabilizer for bipolar disorder. It can be particularly beneficial for the sleep distubances associated with bipolar. Some of its side effect can include (emphasis mine)

    Less Common: Anxiety; confusion (may be more common in the elderly); fast, pounding, or irregular heartbeat; lack of memory of events taking place after benzodiazepine is taken (may be more common with triazolam) ; mental depression

    Rare: Abnormal thinking, including disorientation, delusions (holding false beliefs that cannot be changed by facts), or loss of sense of reality; agitation; behavior changes, including aggressive behavior, bizarre behavior, decreased inhibition, or outbursts of anger; convulsions (seizures); hallucinations (seeing, hearing, or feeling things that are not there); hypotension (low blood pressure); muscle weakness; skin rash or itching; sore throat, fever, and chills; trouble in sleeping; ulcers or sores in mouth or throat (continuing); uncontrolled movements of body, including the eyes; unusual bleeding or bruising; unusual excitement, nervousness, or irritability; unusual tiredness or weakness (severe); yellow eyes or skin

    Some of these possible side effects are one of the reasons we put my 10 year old bilpolar daughter on Depakote (anti-siezure med) for mood stabilization and Clonidine (non-addictive blood pressure med) for bipolar-related sleep disturbances. Not trying to slam Klonopin--the benefits can far outweigh the risks for many people. However, with the violent outbursts we've experienced when my daughter's in the manic phase, we just couldn't risk any acceleration of the aggression!

    Appreciate the direction this thread's taking. I've long been a PDI, but coming to grips with the WHY is what so many resist. Perhaps if there were a mental/physical health reason behind that kind of rage or delusional thinking, people might be more accepting that it COULD happen.
    JanPat, I know what you are going through and am saying prayers for your family!

    My daughter too was Bipolar and some of those manic phase's could get pretty bad.
    My daughter (who has since died) was diagnosed at age 21. Prior to that
    she was normal hard working gal, going to college and seemed just like anyone else her age.

    My sister had recently had surgery so I was staying at her house for a few days.
    My husband called me from from home and said.............."Come over here and pick up XXXXX. She drowned our new little kitten ". I started shivering and almost fainted! I couldn't believe what had happened. I'd had an appointment with the Dentist that day.......but I went home......and told my daughter that I was going to take her to the dentist with me. She seemed just like herself and I thought everything would just go away........I was in complete denial. A few minutes after getting into my car She started hitting me. Pounding on me. I drove over to the curb and parked. I very calmly told her that is was NOT nice to hit me and would she please stop. She glared me without saying anything........but she did stop the hitting and I drove back home.

    That nite........with the help of a friend (not my husband)........we took her to the County Mental Health Center and screaming and yelling they checked her into the facility. As I watch them take her I thought my whole world was literally falling apart. It had come on..........so sudden.........with no notice it was simply impossible to believe what was happening.
    Long story..........and at 27 she was killed in an accident. Only now, do I know she's safe from the one of most brutal diseases of mankind!

    If......Patsy, by taking medications might have experienced this type of mania I am today, certain that she could also have become very violent and disoriented and killed her daughter. BTW............my daughter always loved animals. She just adored kittens!

    I hope this helps..........

    xxxxxxxxxoooooo
    mama

  5. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Why_Nut
    Hypothetically, if someone was on Klonopin, and went off it within a short period of time because, again hypothetically, nobody else in one's family knew one was on it and it would be considered a source of stress to have one's spouse suddenly find out about it in the cramped quarters of, say, a cruise ship where it would be hard to hide the medication, would trying to wean one's self off it cause a build up of anxiety, pain and stressful feelings that might manifest in an emotional outburst uncharacteristic of one's normal level?
    Are you wondering if she was in withdrawal from the Klonopin when the murder or accident/cover-up happened? Is there any other evidence that she had stopped taking the pills? Did she have a refill due that she didn't fill? Or was she still taking the pills at the time of the crime and then stopped taking them? Trying to understand this line of thought...

    Heymom :confused:
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  6. #30

    Default Here are some Withdrawl Symptoms for Klonopin

    taken from
    http://www.benzo.org.uk/kws.htm
    Here are some of the Psychiatric Withdrawl Symptoms of Klonopin!
    - amnesia
    - anxiety
    - confusion
    - delusions
    - depression
    - euphoria
    - forgetfulness
    - hallucinations
    - hysteria
    - increased libido
    - insomnia
    - psychosis
    - suicidal thoughts

    and here are what they call PARADOXICAL Withdrawl symtoms :
    - agitation
    - aggressive behaviour
    - anxiety
    - depression
    - excitability
    - hostility
    - irritability
    - nervousness
    - nightmares, vivid dreams
    - sleep disturbance

    xxxxxxxxxxooooo
    mama

  7. #31
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    Love Mama, thanks for the words of support. My heartfelt sympathies are with you on the loss of your daughter. The reality of the disease is something no one can comprehend until you've seen it first hand. Mine threatened her assistant principal with a pair of scissors but has absolutely no memory of having done so. We've been fortunate enough to avoid the justice system, but the police in our small town are aware of her as they were called to the school multiple times to intervene during her rages.

    In our case, I'm optimistic. She was diagnosed at 8 years old so we've had some time to work with it before she becomes big enough to be a serious danger. I've had to fight tooth and nail--with a good psychiatrist willing to work on the medication balances and a school system that I've drug kicking & screaming with us, she's been relatively stable for awhile. Just today, I found out they're going to start moving her out of the special ed classes and integrating her back into mainstream.

    Not to hijack the thread, so back to what I was going to respond to:

    Heymom, I think what people are trying to get at is could there be some medical reason beyond simple stress that Patsy could have snapped? If she was on Klonipin, could she have been experiencing some of the significantly undesirable side effects? If she'd been on it and abruptly stopped could she have been having withdrawal symptoms that bordered on a psychotic episode? Could the underlying reason for taking Klonipin be the real culprit? Was Patsy suffering from some form of mental illness or seizure disorder that she was desperate to hide? Could that be the deep, dark secret the Ramseys couldn't let anyone know? With their devotion to social status, admission of mental illness and it's associated stigma would be absolutely taboo. Just a few possibilites to toss around!
    JanPat

  8. #32
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    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by JanPat
    Heymom, I think what people are trying to get at is could there be some medical reason beyond simple stress that Patsy could have snapped? If she was on Klonipin, could she have been experiencing some of the significantly undesirable side effects? If she'd been on it and abruptly stopped could she have been having withdrawal symptoms that bordered on a psychotic episode? Could the underlying reason for taking Klonipin be the real culprit? Was Patsy suffering from some form of mental illness or seizure disorder that she was desperate to hide? Could that be the deep, dark secret the Ramseys couldn't let anyone know? With their devotion to social status, admission of mental illness and it's associated stigma would be absolutely taboo. Just a few possibilites to toss around!
    If that were the case, couldn't they have used that as a cover story if it had been an accident? Oh, that's right - the probable sexual abuse would still have emerged during medical treatment or during autopsy assuming JonBenet would have died.

    We will just never know, will we...

    Heymom
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  9. #33

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    "I think what people are trying to get at is could there be some medical reason beyond simple stress that Patsy could have snapped?"

    it makes sense!

    I've thought this for many months. Now, something concrete comes along.

  10. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Punisher
    "I think what people are trying to get at is could there be some medical reason beyond simple stress that Patsy could have snapped?"

    it makes sense!

    I've thought this for many months. Now, something concrete comes along.
    Sorry, I don't understand - what is concrete that has come along? I thought it was just speculation.

    Heymom
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  11. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStrat
    Do you work with MS patients, Barbara? I can tell you from experience that Klonopin is a highly prescribed drug for MS patients. With MS, you lose the ability to move your muscles, but your brain still causes your muscles to cramp due to lack of use. Klonopin helps greatly with the muscle spasms, and yes drooling is a problem. Perhaps you remember that skank wife of Richard Pryor dragging him out in public so he could drool all over himself in front of the cameras.

    Sorry it took so long to respond. I work with the mentally retarded and physically disabled, mainly those with Cerebral Palsy, most of whom have seizure and behavioral disorders. I order, on a regular basis, adult bibs for the drooling, some caused, of course from the CP and dysphagia disorders and many from seizure and behavioral medications. Klonopin is one of the drugs that I know causes a lot of drooling.


    And yeah, lol, I remember Pryor's wife bringing a drooling Pryor out for all to see.
    PATSY RAMSEY WROTE THE RANSOM NOTE
    SHE WOULDN'T DO THAT FOR AN INTRUDER.
    PLEASE READ CHEROKEE'S ANALYSIS

    http://66.98.176.96/~tricia/forums/s...ead.php?t=6404

  12. #36

    Default

    I mean, unless I misread it, she WAS taking it, right?



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