Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 567891011 LastLast
Results 97 to 108 of 130
  1. #97

    Default

    Aren't lawyers - by law - required to inform LE when their clients have confessed to a crime? JonBenet's death was not prosecutable? Does that mean it was not a crime? Not even involuntary manslaughter? I would think that even an accident which resulted in death would have to be reported to the police as such. Weren't the lawyers that John Ramsey supposedly called that morning expected to inform the police that their clients told them exactly what happened to JonBenet?

  2. #98

    Default Clinton

    "This theory loses some validity given that since 2000 the Republicans have controlled all three branches of government with an iron fist and have shown they know how to use this power"

    The phone records were sealed by the White House in 1998 during Clinton's 2nd term.

  3. #99
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Hornetsville, NY
    Posts
    8,871

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Carol
    Aren't lawyers - by law - required to inform LE when their clients have confessed to a crime? JonBenet's death was not prosecutable? Does that mean it was not a crime? Not even involuntary manslaughter? I would think that even an accident which resulted in death would have to be reported to the police as such. Weren't the lawyers that John Ramsey supposedly called that morning expected to inform the police that their clients told them exactly what happened to JonBenet?

    I read somewhere that defense lawyers don't ask and really don't want to know if their client is guilty, but if they do find out, they can't make the claim in court that their client is innocent. They can still defend the client vigorously, but they can't make the claim of innocence. I also don't think they have any legal obligation to inform the prosecution of anything their client tells them because of attorney/client privilege.
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  4. #100
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Eastern North Carolina
    Posts
    2,322

    Default

    Spade - The phone records were sealed by the White House in 1998 during Clinton's 2nd term.

    The only point I was trying to make, Spade, is that the Republicans have controlled all three branches of government and all government depts and agencies (including the Justice Dept) since 2000. Obviously, they have had the power since 2000 to unseal the phone records to nail Clinton and Democrats in Colorado, and open an obstruction of justice investigation to bring justice to JBR. Could the problem be that Ramsey is a Republican and ran for office? Could it be his run for office in Michigan was more to keep the phone records sealed than being elected? The "conspiracy" deepens!!!

  5. #101
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Born under a bad sign.
    Posts
    491

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Watching You
    I read somewhere that defense lawyers don't ask and really don't want to know if their client is guilty, but if they do find out, they can't make the claim in court that their client is innocent. They can still defend the client vigorously, but they can't make the claim of innocence. I also don't think they have any legal obligation to inform the prosecution of anything their client tells them because of attorney/client privilege.
    Lawyers are required as officers of the court to inform the authorities if their client is about to commit a crime. The Ramseys were about to, and in the process of, commiting several crimes relating to the coverup, such as falsely reporting a federal crime and interfering with an investigation, etc. If Bynum, knowing this, didn't report it to law enforcement, he would have lost the ability to practice any type of law, should he have been caught. I doubt Bynum would have taken that chance for John Ramsey or anyone else. If John Ramsey even attempted to tell Bynum what was really going on, Bynum would have cut him off and said "STOP - By law, I can't be privy to that information."

  6. #102

    Default

    The only time a lawyer or shrink is legally obligated to notify authorities is when a client informs them he intends to commit a crime of any sort, including suicide. The point being to ensure public safety.

    In this country our legal system operates on the presumption of innocence. Guilt MUST BE PROVEN in a court of law. Until it is, we are all presumed innocent. So any confession to a lawyer is NOT a finding by a jury of a client's peers of guilt and therefore, the lawyer cannot prepare any defense of that client based in guilt. A lawyer has a legal obligation to prepare that client's defense to uphold his presumed innocence and place the burden of proving otherwise on the prosecutor.

  7. #103

    Default Deja Nu

    "So any confession to a lawyer is NOT a finding by a jury of a client's peers of guilt and therefore, the lawyer cannot prepare any defense of that client based in guilt. A lawyer has a legal obligation to prepare that client's defense to uphold his presumed innocence and place the burden of proving otherwise on the prosecutor."

    Thanks for this explanation. I would wager that Haddon, Morgan, etal. knew who killed JonBenet before her body was found.



    .

  8. #104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spade
    "So any confession to a lawyer is NOT a finding by a jury of a client's peers of guilt and therefore, the lawyer cannot prepare any defense of that client based in guilt. A lawyer has a legal obligation to prepare that client's defense to uphold his presumed innocence and place the burden of proving otherwise on the prosecutor."

    Thanks for this explanation. I would wager that Haddon, Morgan, etal. knew who killed JonBenet before her body was found.
    Spade, one thing on which I'm sure we'll agree is that if JR and PR told Haddon et al the same story we've all heard, they surely knew who killed JB. And yes, I agree that the call was most likely made before the body was "found" the first time......

  9. #105

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStrat
    Lawyers are required as officers of the court to inform the authorities if their client is about to commit a crime. The Ramseys were about to, and in the process of, commiting several crimes relating to the coverup, such as falsely reporting a federal crime and interfering with an investigation, etc. If Bynum, knowing this, didn't report it to law enforcement, he would have lost the ability to practice any type of law, should he have been caught. I doubt Bynum would have taken that chance for John Ramsey or anyone else. If John Ramsey even attempted to tell Bynum what was really going on, Bynum would have cut him off and said "STOP - By law, I can't be privy to that information."
    I think John Ramsey could have gotten information from Bynum without putting him in that position.

    He might have asked him about the law regarding accidents. Child molestation. Age related questions. What would happen if he tried to take his family out of state? What would happen if an accident was reported to LE? What would happen if a child was taken to the emergency room and found to have been sexually abused?

    I mean, just for instance. Bynum could have figured out a lot from the questions and quided his answers.

    I have also wondered if perhaps Dr. Beuf was called in the night, as well.

    And let me say, I have NOTHING to suggest this happened except the circumstances we are all aware of and the never subpoenaed phone records, including the blank one that finally showed up a year later "volunteered" by the Ramseys.

    But in the absence of fact, one only has speculation. If Hunter had done his job and the Ramseys had helped LE all along, I wouldn't have to speculate.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  10. #106

    Default

    I sincerely doubt that John and Patsy Ramsey called Mike Bynum at midnight to tell him, "Hey, we're going to be killing our daughter tonight and need to get some legal advice." Come on, that's just too far fetched.

    But would they call their lawyer friend early in the morning to say, hey, we accidentally killed our daughter and need some really good legal advice? Yeah, happens all the time. Did Bynum coach them through writing the ransom note, staging the crime scene, wiping the body down? No, again too far fetched. And the Ramseys aren't stupid people. They are both clever, cunning and highly intelligent. And let us not forget that John Douglas' Mind Hunter book was found right on John's bedside table. For anyone not familiar with that book, Douglas is a retired FBI profiler who wrote about his work in some very infamous cases. One particularly had features of the crime that appear to be duplicated in the Ramsey case.

    To implicate any of the Ramsey lawyers in the commission of this homicide is wrong, wrong, wrong. To implicate them in any cover up or staging of this homicide is wrong, wrong, wrong. To suspect they knew what happened before the police were called is logical, reasonable and probable, which is most likely why phone records were not found. Be careful where you tread, FFJ'ers.

  11. #107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Nu
    The only remaining critical piece of evidence that could have ever convicted any Ramsey was Fleet White and his FIRSTHAND EYEWITNESS testimony not to the crimes themselves but every other feature of this case that could have conclusively led to a successful prosecution.
    I agree with Deja Nu that it's very unlikely that the Ramseys would have called in the middle of the night for legal advice before setting up the staging, but I do think, they probably called in the morning. Maybe they didn't even tell him everything - maybe they just said something about JB being missing and added some little tidbits about wondering if it might be a pedophile somehow related to her pageants (more staging) and that they were worried that someone might somehow try to blame one of them if JB turned up dead?
    I wonder if Bynum had advised John to have a witness for all the things you mentioned (and then nearly had a heart attack when he found out who the witness was.)
    AH did not decline the request but just didn't act on it. As KK posted earlier, it took a year for BPD to get legal access to them only to discover that the crucial records for the month preceding and during JB's death were missing, not sealed under any order.
    Giving them a lot of time to get those particular ducks in a row.
    Wouldn't the Ramseys and their lawyers WANT phone records disclosed if they truly believed someone else killed their daughter and just might have contacted the family prior? And wouldn't it be especially crucial for the Ramseys and their team to encourage receipt of phone records for the 26th and 27th when they were, at that time, insisting that this was a kidnapping and the kidnappers were going to call for the ransom money?
    And, wouldn't the parents be screaming to anyone who would listen to try to find those phone records that could potentially be instrumental in catching the 'perpetrator'? So why didn't they?

    Guess it doesn't work that way if you already know who the perpetrator is.
    So, if you were 6 yrs old, would you eat pineapple with a stranger in the middle of the night? What about the pineapple that was found in Jonbenet's small intestine?

  12. #108
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brooklyn, New York
    Posts
    2,632

    Default

    Not only that, but wouldn't you want to have the phone records checked, JUST IN CASE, this "killer" had called that number at any time, even as a "wrong number", just to make sure John answers, or to verify that it was John's phone. I get wrong numbers on my phone, don't you, wouldn't they?

    For that alone, I'd be screaming to check the records to assure that any number that may have called it was thoroughly checked.
    PATSY RAMSEY WROTE THE RANSOM NOTE
    SHE WOULDN'T DO THAT FOR AN INTRUDER.
    PLEASE READ CHEROKEE'S ANALYSIS

    http://66.98.176.96/~tricia/forums/s...ead.php?t=6404



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •