What if:

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Spade, Sep 10, 2006.

  1. Spade

    Spade Member

    What if JonBenet’s death was caused by someone/persons under 10 years of age:

    1.Would parents try to cover up the crime scene before they realized their child couldn’t be held legally responsible?

    2.Would lawyers be able to convince prosecutors that it was “in the best interest of the child†to obfuscate the facts of JonBenet’s death?

    3.Would a politically savvy lawyer like Hal Haddon risk his reputation to lobby the governor to keep the case in Alex Hunter’s control? (#4 in Lawyering JonBenet)

    4.Would Henry Lee say: There is not enough evidence to determine whether this was an accident or murder?

    5.Would John Ramsey say: “We’re not talking to you!†seconds after calling 911?

    6.Would John Andrew Ramsey say: “The killers should be forgiven?

    IMO the answer to all these questions is YES! Please add to this list.
     
  2. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    For me, it would be the only other scenerio to explain the Ramseys behavior.
     
  3. JoeJame

    JoeJame member

    I wonder about Burke asking "What did you find?" though. If that is what was said on the phone. Other than that, all is very plausible....
     
  4. 1000 Sparks

    1000 Sparks Active Member

    my questions

    why would Burke be asking "what did you find" that early in the morning when the 911 call was made? If he was there..

    why would they put the garrotte around her neck? To finish her off?

    Why wouldn't they call 911 right when it happened? (It was said she could have lived with the head injury)

    If this happened shortly after they got home, wouldn't Burke have been in bed if they "didn't want to talk to him"?

    Wouldn't the lawyers tell them to call 911 and don't worry because of the age Burke's age?

    I believe this was an accident, so why the big coverup? Can't believe any lawyer would tell them to do what was done.
     
  5. Spade

    Spade Member

    Keenan/Lacy

    Would Hunter and Keenan/Lacy attempt to find a suitable, albeit innocent, perpetrator (Oliva, Helgoth, Karr...) to "solve" this mystery and get the case off their books?
     
  6. sue

    sue Member

    If I had a 10 yr old who had caused a death:
    - I certainly would not have sent him to the neighbor's house that same day (even if I had warned him not to say anything, I'd be worried he'd slip up).

    - I would not have allowed him to go back to school (probably ever; I'd home school him)

    - I would not allow him to see a psychologist that the police wanted him to be examined by

    - I would not let him see a pschycologist or psychiatrist - EVER - who would know what might slip out

    For your questions 3, 4 and 5, I think the answer would be "Yes" for any of the Ramsey family. (Although I have seen where Henry Lee said he felt it was a domestic accident that was covered up - the same time as his famous "rice already cooked".)
     
  7. Spade

    Spade Member

    Sue

    Sue-

    - I certainly would not have sent him to the neighbor's house that same day (even if I had warned him not to say anything, I'd be worried he'd slip up). Well, the alternative was to keep him in the house where he would be carefully questioned by police.

    - I would not have allowed him to go back to school (probably ever; I'd home school him)
    He was monitered closely at school. 1st by a PI from Haddon's office and then by Susan Stine. (See the Atlanta interviews for Mike Kane's opinion of that)

    - I would not allow him to see a psychologist that the police wanted him to be examined by

    - I would not let him see a pschycologist or psychiatrist - EVER - who would know what might slip out

    IMO the Boulder DA's office knew who was reponsible for JonBenet's death by the evening of 12/26/96. The parents are just cooperating with the official coverup.
     
  8. heymom

    heymom Member

    Does a psychiatrist or psychologist have an obligation to notify police if a client tells him or her information about a crime that's been committed?

    Heymom
     
  9. Spade

    Spade Member

    Burke at school

    ROGER COSSACK, CO-HOST: Today, we take a look at part of the interviews
    of Patsy Ramsey answering questions about the death of their daughter,
    JonBenet, including questions about the security arrangements of their
    son,
    Burke, after the murder of his sister.
    (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
    KANE: Why would you allow her to go without any security -- and against
    Tracy Temple's (ph) advice, as a matter of fact -- to be transported to
    and from
    school when he was most vulnerable?
    PATSY RAMSEY, MOTHER OF JONBENET RAMSEY: Well, he -- he left the
    garage in a locked car and drove straight to school, and then he was
    escorted
    into the school.
    KANE: Did you have any concerns about somebody -- a stop sign...
    WOOD: Mr. Kane -- Michael...
    KANE: What is your objection now?
    WOOD: I just wonder what does this have to do with the investigation
    into the --
    finding who killed JonBenet Ramsey?
    KANE: The very fact that I'm asking it means it has something to do with
    it.
    WOOD: What?
    KANE: What -- why -- I don't have to -- I don't have to just -- if
    you're now
    going to make me justify every question that I ask -- now we're so --
    you know,
    in the very beginning, Lin, you sent a letter...
    WOOD: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
    KANE: I know. I'm not. I'm just emphasizing. You sent a letter.
    WOOD: My point's (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
    KANE: And I'm not -- you know, this is nothing personal. You do your
    job. I'm
    doing mine. At the very beginning, you sent a letter to us, and you laid
    down this
    fair and objective -- as long as these questions are fair and objective,
    you'll
    answer. And I wrote back to you -- and I wrote a letter back, and within
    five
    minutes of you getting that letter off your fax machine, you were on the
    phone
    with me. And then the next day, you...
    WOOD: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). You know, I wrote a letter to Chief Beckner,
    which I'd be glad to make part of this record, and then I got a letter
    from you,
    and I called you.
    KANE: That's right, and we spoke about that, and the next day...
    WOOD: And (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
    KANE: And the next day, you wrote another letter saying that there would
    be no
    conditions on this interview.
    WOOD: Now wait a minute.
    KANE: Oh, yes, you did.
    WOOD: I didn't impose any conditions.
    KANE: You are right now. Now you're asking me...
    WOOD: I said...
    KANE: ... what's the purpose of me asking the question. That's an --
    that's a
    condition.
    WOOD: No, it's not.
    KANE: Oh, well, what do you call it?
    WOOD: Just what it was. I asked you a question.
    KANE: But I'm saying I don't...
    WOOD: I haven't imposed any...
    KANE: ... have to explain my purpose. I'm asking a question. If you
    don't want
    to answer the question, don't answer it, but I don't have to justify the
    question.
    WOOD: Mr. Kane, you misrepresent my letter to you. You misrepresent our
    conversation. You misrepresent our -- your statements that I have
    imposed
    conditions. Let me finish. All the -- the only...
    KANE: You know, Mr. Wood, this is a sham.
    WOOD: No, it's not.
    KANE: This is a big publicity stunt...
    WOOD: No, it's not.
    KANE: ... on your part. You want to go out there and say, "My client"...
    WOOD: No, it's not.
    KANE: ... "answered every question." Well, don't say that because you're
    not
    letting your client answer this question.
    WOOD: Why don't you -- Mr. Kane, why don't you sit down and let's --
    let's --
    let's try...
    KANE: You're obstructing.
    WOOD: Let's try to be...
    KANE: You're obstructing, Lin. You're asking me now to justify...
    WOOD: Mr. Kane, sit down.
    KANE: ... why I am asking a question.
    WOOD: Sit down.
    KANE: No. You just -- yes or no. Can she answer that question?
    WOOD: Mr. Kane, life does not always turn on what Michael Kane thinks is
    fair.
    KANE: Just...
    WOOD: Give me a second. I don't think I'm being unreasonable.
    KANE: Well, I think you are.
    WOOD: Well...
    KANE: I think you are. You're asking me to justify...
    WOOD: Give me a chance to talk without jumping up and making your
    pre-planned speeches.
     
  10. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    I know some parents would do ANYTHING to save their kid.
     
  11. MlazyV

    MlazyV Banned for Stupidity

    7. Would the district attorney refuse to investigate and follow up on valid pertinent leads such as the doll/fiber evidence Pam Paugh removed from the crime scene?

    Is it too hard to consider the torso of the doll maybe the source of tan cotton fibers found on the duct tape? Is it too hard to see that the wool skirt may be the source of dark blue fibers found on JonBenet's shirt? Is to hard to see there is a problem with the neck strings getting tangled in the hair with duct tape providing a remedy? Isn't it chilling to realize a doll like this was removed from the crime scene and a duplicate was delivered to John Ramseys's office within days of the funeral.


    [​IMG]


    you be the judge...
     
  12. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    MlazyV, You have hit one of my biggest nerves.

    The "doll" issue is one that needs to be looked at but the D.A.'s office has refused to do so.

    I do know they were contacted with this information, that an exact replica of the doll was sent to "JonBenet Ramsey" in early Janurary to John's work place. WHY? Wasn't this doll ordered in early Janurary too? My memory is fading so don't hold me to that.

    Spade, this is why I go back and forth between all three in the house that night. You provide a very strong argument concerning who did the crime, then I go back and forth with why I think it was Patsy or John and Patsy, then I am back to Burke John and Patsy...

    AAARRRRGGGGHHHH
     
  13. Spade

    Spade Member

    The Doll and The Pineapple and the Fingerprints

    We know from the autopsy and from the '98 interviews that pineapple was found in JonBenet's intestine. This establishes that JonBenet ate the pineapple within 2 hours of her death. Burke's fingerprints were found on the bowl of pineapple. Was the doll present with Burke and JonBenet when they ate the pineapple?
     
  14. MlazyV

    MlazyV Banned for Stupidity

    It is only known that Pam Paugh removed several American Girl dolls. The trail ends there as the Boulder DA sees no possible connection or need to investigate. Where the dolls were at the time of the murder is anyone's guess, probably in JonBenet's room. They likely weren't significant until the staging started and when John needed a piece of duct tape as a prop Patsy knew where to look.

    Another scenario is John and Patsy took advantage of the fact there was 9 year old present who they could pin their own evil acts it on. I lean towards Burke hit her and it was unfortunate enough to be fatal. BUT when I read about the lawsuits with secret settlements and realize how the Ramseys eagerly point the finger at anyone who dares speak up they also seem culpable.
     
  15. heymom

    heymom Member

    I find those pictures deeply disturbing, since the first one looks a heck of a lot like the garotte that was tied around JonBenet's neck. All that's missing is the piece of paintbrush. God almighty, what really happened in that house???
     
  16. Tricia

    Tricia Administrator Staff Member

    The key here is the rope around the dolls neck. It looks just like the rope used in the garrote which would explain why the doll was removed then a new one ordered.

    Mlazy, could you please start a new thead on this topic? It is an important one and I don't want to hijack Spade's thread.

    Thanks,
    Tricia
     
  17. Britt

    Britt FFJ Senior Member

    Exactly! imo

    I don't think Burke or any other child did it. More like, John and Patsy Ramsey made up a story they could use to get their lawyer/prosecutor friends to conspire for them and manipulate the justice system.

    One or both Ramsey parents sure as hell used JonBenét for their own self-serving purposes (the poor child was Patsy's live-action pageant doll). Why should Burke be any different?

    I agree with the poster on another thread who suggested Burke was the first bus victim.

    IMO
     
  18. Spade

    Spade Member

    MlazyV and Britt

    Originally Posted by MlazyV
    Another scenario is John and Patsy took advantage of the fact there was 9 year old present who they could pin their own evil acts it on.

    This is interesting BUT I don't think it explains the actions of the defense lawyers and the DA's office. IMO both know the exact truth.
     
  19. Cranberry

    Cranberry Member

    Another heart

    Interesting that the My Twinn doll tag/logo had the i dotted with a heart in 1996.
     
  20. Britt

    Britt FFJ Senior Member

    But how could they know anything more than what the Ramseys told them?
     
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