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  1. #1
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    Default Who can be excluded for sure?

    I do not want to make anyone angry in this post. But I am just doing research and reading ST's book now. How can anyone be excluded from this crime, other than a solid alibi the night/morning of the crime? Because THEY said so. Please tell me info I don't know. Alot of the people that have been eliminated, there wasn't much of an alibi. Such as Wolf....McReynolds (that had a harp with children's names on it that were dead and supposedly said he was saving a place for JB? plus had pics of her all over by his fireplace and his daughter had been kidnapped 22 years earlier) and Helgoth. I know that santa was old and frail...but didn't JB supposedly say she was getting a secret visit from him? and he had been on a tour in the house? and his son had been in trouble? There was 2 gentlemen. and wasn't there a card from him in her trash? Didn't his wife write a play about a child being tortured in a basement? There are many sick and twisted people in this world. We all know that......and I know there isn't much evidence leading to an intruder, but is there a perfect crime.?...especially if someone is obessed and trying to point away from themselves? I just would like to know why some have been eliminated. Was it the dead dog truth? and if so....why would RST hide for them?

  2. #2

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    Who can be excluded for sure?

    I didn't do it.

    I'm sure the Queen of England has a good excuse.
    I think Brad Pitt was away making a movie, so he's right out.
    Billions of people can prove they were in their own country.

    I know John, Patsy and Burke were NOT cleared and can't be excluded for sure.

  3. #3
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    Quote Mary Lacy:-

    . You know, no-one is really cleared of a homicide until there’s a conviction, in court beyond a reasonable doubt. And I don’t think you will get any prosecutor… unless they were present with the person at the time of the crime… to clear someone.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  4. #4
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    RiverRat is offline FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Left is Patsy Ramsey)
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    I was reading Seve's book and it said that if you do not know the answers by now - walk away knowing it was not the Whites.
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Mary Lacy:-

    Quote:
    . You know, no-one is really cleared of a homicide until there’s a conviction, in court beyond a reasonable doubt. And I don’t think you will get any prosecutor… unless they were present with the person at the time of the crime… to clear someone.

    __________________


    I was in New York State with my children on Christmas Eve and Christmas day, and I can prove it.

    Does Mary Keenan Lacy have an alibi for that night? She lived in Boulder, after all, and if no one else is cleared, neither is she. Neither are Lou Smit, Michael Tracey, Alex Hunter, Trip DeMuth, Susan Bennett, Mary Sumac, haha.

    Imagine that.
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJame
    I do not want to make anyone angry in this post. But I am just doing research and reading ST's book now. How can anyone be excluded from this crime, other than a solid alibi the night/morning of the crime? Because THEY said so. Please tell me info I don't know. Alot of the people that have been eliminated, there wasn't much of an alibi. Such as Wolf....McReynolds (that had a harp with children's names on it that were dead and supposedly said he was saving a place for JB? plus had pics of her all over by his fireplace and his daughter had been kidnapped 22 years earlier) and Helgoth. I know that santa was old and frail...but didn't JB supposedly say she was getting a secret visit from him? and he had been on a tour in the house? and his son had been in trouble? There was 2 gentlemen. and wasn't there a card from him in her trash? Didn't his wife write a play about a child being tortured in a basement? There are many sick and twisted people in this world. We all know that......and I know there isn't much evidence leading to an intruder, but is there a perfect crime.?...especially if someone is obessed and trying to point away from themselves? I just would like to know why some have been eliminated. Was it the dead dog truth? and if so....why would RST hide for them?
    Okay, I have no idea what most of your post is about! Dead dog? Wha??? Where did you read all of this about Bill McReynolds??? The RST has been paid to put the finger of blame on others. Money talks.

    Heymom
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJame
    ....and I know there isn't much evidence leading to an intruder,?
    Are you saying there is SOME evidence leading to an intruder. I've been waiting over six years to see this. Would you please trot it out?

  8. #8

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    WY said
    Quote Mary Lacy:-

    Quote:
    . You know, no-one is really cleared of a homicide until there’s a conviction, in court beyond a reasonable doubt. And I don’t think you will get any prosecutor… unless they were present with the person at the time of the crime… to clear someone.

    Oh heck I forgot this is the Boulder DA talking! Put The Queen, Pitt and moi back on the suspect list. NO one is cleared!

  9. #9

    Default

    I have paid no attention to this case since 1998 until the Karr crap.

    I do not believe Burke deliberately hurt his sister with any kind of malice intended. I think it is time to let him try to live his own life to the extent that is possible.

    Patsy is dead now, she is not going to be tried and no matter what evidence might point to her involvement, it is all immaterial at this time. If she was guilty of anything, she suffered all the rest of her life and in my view, that is enough and it's time to close the book on that chapter. The last years of her life were not happy ones, in spite of wealth and fame but years when doubt and suspicion dogged her at every turn; this was not the kind of life she wanted to live. Guilty or not, it's time to let her rest in peace at last.

    That leaves John. I don't think John ever deliberately hurt his little girl with any intention to do so. I think Jon Benet's head injury was an accidental fall down the stairs, as I posted earlier, but there is no proof of anything that happened that night or at any time leading up to it. I can't blame a man for trying to protect himself and his family, that's his job.

    How this whole episode has affected his finances, I don't know or care but I know it has destroyed the image he used to want to project. His reputation has been ruined as has the whole rest of his life. He will wear the chains of doubt and suspicion, too for the rest of his life. This has not been the outcome he would have sought. He is not a happy man. Pardon me for saying so, but that is enough for me. I have no desire to hound him as the rest of the world is doing that, whether he deserves it or not.

    I may not be able to understand him, but I can forgive him; someone a long time ago taught that forgiveness was a good thing and sometimes I think he was right.

    The first step in the problem solving sequence is to ask if this is your problem to solve and whether you have the authority to implement your solution and if the answer is no, go no further for it is a waste of time and resources. I could too easily get mired in the quicksand of this

    Accordingly, I have a life to get back to and probably will lurk a little but probably won't post much anymore. I doubt it will ever be officially resolved and that no longer bothers me. I have accepted the things I can't change and now I have some other work to get back to.

  10. #10
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    Red face JustBob ....

    [QUOTE=JustBob]I have paid no attention to this case since 1998 until the Karr crap.

    I do not believe Burke deliberately hurt his sister with any kind of malice intended. I think it is time to let him try to live his own life to the extent that is possible.

    Patsy is dead now, she is not going to be tried and no matter what evidence might point to her involvement, it is all immaterial at this time. If she was guilty of anything, she suffered all the rest of her life and in my view, that is enough and it's time to close the book on that chapter. The last years of her life were not happy ones, in spite of wealth and fame but years when doubt and suspicion dogged her at every turn; this was not the kind of life she wanted to live. Guilty or not, it's time to let her rest in peace at last.

    That leaves John. I don't think John ever deliberately hurt his little girl with any intention to do so. I think Jon Benet's head injury was an accidental fall down the stairs, as I posted earlier, but there is no proof of anything that happened that night or at any time leading up to it. I can't blame a man for trying to protect himself and his family, that's his job.

    How this whole episode has affected his finances, I don't know or care but I know it has destroyed the image he used to want to project. His reputation has been ruined as has the whole rest of his life. He will wear the chains of doubt and suspicion, too for the rest of his life. This has not been the outcome he would have sought. He is not a happy man. Pardon me for saying so, but that is enough for me. I have no desire to hound him as the rest of the world is doing that, whether he deserves it or not.

    I may not be able to understand him, but I can forgive him; someone a long time ago taught that forgiveness was a good thing and sometimes I think he was right.

    The first step in the problem solving sequence is to ask if this is your problem to solve and whether you have the authority to implement your solution and if the answer is no, go no further for it is a waste of time and resources. I could too easily get mired in the quicksand of this

    Accordingly, I have a life to get back to and probably will lurk a little but probably won't post much anymore. I doubt it will ever be officially resolved and that no longer bothers me. I have accepted the things I can't change and now I have some other work to get back to.[/QUOTE]




    JBob .... although I don't agree with everything you say, it mirrors a lot of the feelings I have towards the Ramseys in general.

    Having said that though, every time I have put this case on the notorious crime shelf .... the Ramseys or the lawyers would pop up endlessly on TV, whether it was regarding lawsuits, trotting out new Intruders, whatever.

    I think MANY have been willing to let go, BUT the Ramseys were NEVER in the camp of seeking a life of tranquility, out of the spotlight.

    If you listen very carefully to everything that has come up just recently, you will realize that John Ramsey, Tracy, Lacy, John's lawyer Wood et al, are the ones that brought this dormant case back to life.

    Many innocent bystanders (not just the Rams) had their lives & careers totally torn apart by this horrendous event & since it exploded into a world wide event, don't you think the blame falls on John Ramsey for igniting yet again, the world's immense curiosity about this bizarre Xmas.

    I see him as the proverbial guy lighting the match & then running for cover when it didn't serve his misguided intentions.

    Otherwise, I agree with a lot of what you say about moving on with life .... I'm almost done. Problem is, one of my hobbies has always been true crime, but you're right this one is getting tiresome, or perhaps I am getting tiring.

    Regards,
    Mandarin

  11. #11

    Default

    Well, JustBob, what you say is half true, anyway.

    There are things we can't affect or change, and we have to accept that.

    Whatever you THINK happened that night, does not change what DID happen that night. If you don't know what happened, however, then I hardly think being satisfied with a belief based in ignorance is something to be preaching to others. We're not here because we live to torture the poor, unfortunate Ramseys. Give us that much credit, please.

    What you seem to have missed, though, is that the Ramseys employed many professionals at great expense to themselves and others, who, in their JOB to "clear" the Ramsey's name, I believe John Ramsey said more than once, have done great harm to the lives of many innocent people. They have damaged the names and reputations of countless others, altered lives professionally and personally, and caused as much suffering as they themselves have suffered, even if the truth were your accident, for which they had every right to evade the laws of our justice system, in your opinion.

    So no, the Ramseys have not paid their debt to society if they were involved in the death of JonBenet. They have in fact cost society a great deal to "protect their family" at the huge expense of others who did nothing wrong or to the Ramseys, and in many cases had never even heard of them before JonBenet was murdered.

    Perhaps what you have missed is that when a child is murdered, when the question of sexual abuse is clear and present, when no one answers for these crimes, but instead deflects guilt to others and the community at large which seeks to find the truth of the crime, the crime does not stop with the suffering of that family, but spreads out and harms all of us in waves that are still crashing to this day. Did we bring John Karr into this? No. Those the Ramseys have drawn into their circle of toxic actions for a decade are the ones who continue to perpetuate the harm done by this terrible act against a child.

    You know, if the Ramseys had stopped their masquerade anywhere along the way, just taken their woes and lived with them quietly, instead of lying to the public repeatedly, disturbing the peace of families with tales of a child killer "out there, so hold your babies close," writing a book, going on TV over and over and over year after year, hiring a lawyer to sue everyone who responded to their own publicity campaign with disbelief, arrogantly parading themselves around as SO WRONGED BY EVERYONE, none of us would be here today.

    We're here because the Ramseys didn't just stop with their illegal and criminal actions that night. We're here because the Ramseys then demanded that society declare them above the law, to resume their former lives of wealth and social standing without any accountability for their actions on that night or since. We're here because the Ramseys didn't just have a simple accident and then stage it to protect their family. We're here because the Ramseys then assaulted our justice system, our Constitution, and our intelligence, all to "protect" themselves.

    Sorry. I'm not turning my back on the very thing I hold as most sacred to our system, without which we would disintegrate into anarchy or despotism very quickly. I am here because if justice is not blind, if it is so easily bought and sold as to be blantantly flaunted before the citizens of this country with impunity, without even finding any resistence, then we are no better than any other country, third world, islamic, you name it. And then we would not deserve the freedoms I actually still believe in; freedoms that we were taught our ancestors fought and died for, to secure and protect, so that we KNOW that IN THE USA, THE RIGHT TO LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS IS A GOAL WE WILL FIGHT TO ACHIEVE TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY.

    I have to believe that. I come from bloodlines that fought all the way back to the Civil War to shape this country. I am way too jaded to be naive, and I am not stupid. I know these are abstract ideas, ideals that cannot be obtained in full. But I learned a very long time ago that what we do have here is THE CHANCE FOR JUSTICE, THE CHANCE FOR FREEDOM FOR ALL, FOR EQUALITY, FOR WHAT IS GOOD TO SURVIVE IN THE FACE OF ALL THAT IS TERRIBLE. I have to believe that in America, IF YOU ARE SIX YEARS OLD AND YOU ARE MURDERED, YOUR MURDERER CANNOT SIMPLY FLY AWAY BECAUSE HE/SHE HAS MONEY AND POWER AND SO NO ONE WILL EVEN STAND UP AND SAY NO! THIS INJUSTICE WILL NOT GO UNCHALLENGED!

    JonBenet Ramsey was strangled to death. The autopsy is inarguable on this. She had petechia in all the telling points of the body. She had bruises underneath the garrote which tightened until her brain could no longer receive oxygen rich blood. At the very least, that's negligent homicide, IF the person strangling her THOUGHT she was dead.

    I'm not asking for blood. I'm not asking for a lynching. I'm not asking to be the judge and jury. I'm demanding that the officers of the court do their jobs, however. I'm demanding that the law be upheld. I'm demanding THE TRUTH!

    I demand it because JONBENET RAMSEY WAS A CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY AND SHE DESERVES TO HAVE THAT COUNT, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER CITIZEN. She deserves her story be told. She deserves not to be remembered as some grotesque image of a miniature painted doll, but as A CHILD WHO DID NOT DESERVE TO BE ABANDONED BY HER PARENTS, HER FAMILY, HER FRIENDS, AND HER COUNTRY, BECAUSE THAT SUITED THEM AND THEY DID NOT WANT TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS BECAUSE IT WAS EASIER TO LIE, CHEAT, AND RUN AWAY FROM THEIR RESPONSIBILITY!

    I don't know what the end of this will be. I don't know that I won't be here in 20 more years, still beating my silly drum for what may very well be nothing but the American Illusion of Justice. But if there's a chance, just one chance, that somehow, someone who hears my drum, or Tricia's drum, or Moab's, or Cherokee's, or Jayelles', or Why Nut's, YumYum's, Easy Writer's, RiverRat's, Watching You's, and every person who posts here or anywhere, that maybE, just maybe, one day, someone who can will stand up and say NO! NOT ON MY WATCH! NOT IN MY COUNTRY! NEVER WILL I CLOSE MY EYES AND SAY IT IS OK FOR INJUSTICE TO PREVAIL BECAUSE WE WERE TOO CORRUPT, INCOMPETENT, STUPID OR LAZY TO FIGHT FOR JUSTICE.

    Otherwise, we might as well just fire everyone and shut down the goverment. We are a land of laws. If there isn't even the hope of blind justice, then it's over and we get what we deserve.
    Last edited by koldkase; September 14, 2006, 2:24 pm at Thu Sep 14 14:24:57 UTC 2006.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
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  12. #12

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    What Koldkase said!

    Frankly I find John Ramsey's throwing his friends and acquaintances under the bus to be sleazy....and they did name names in their book! People who the cops cleared...people who took a lie detector test, went down to the station to talk to cops, willing gave handwriting samples, hair samples etc....while John and Patsy sat behind the best CRIMINAL defense lawyers whining the cops were picking on them.



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