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  1. #493
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    Does anyone have the stats for how many people the BPD investigated etc? I should have this easily to hand, but I don't!
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  2. #494

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    OK, here is the Boulder PD press release earlier this year where the lawyers who assisted the BPD during the investigation early in the case take issue with DeMuth's irresponsible lies about how he was prevented from investigating intruders by the BPD, calling his claim ridiculous. In this press release, it is stated that the BPD investigated over 160 suspects:

    http://www.bouldercolorado.gov/index...786&Itemid=579

    Recent events in the nearly 10-year-old homicide of JonBenet Ramsey have rekindled the firestorm of accusations about how the Boulder Police Department handled the investigation into her death. The department has remained silent in recent years, as the effort to correct inaccuracies seemed futile.

    In the fall of 1997, three prominent Denver-area attorneys, Dan Hoffman, Robert Miller, and Richard Baer, assisted the Boulder Police Department with the investigation. After reading comments made by Trip DeMuth in today's Rocky Mountain News, all three felt compelled to contact the police department to provide support. They have authorized the Boulder Police Department to release this statement on their behalf:

    We assisted the Boulder Police Department in their investigation of the murder of JonBenet Ramsey. Throughout our involvement and to this day, we have never spoken to the media about this case because we feel that comments by anyone involved in the investigation could only compromise the ability to prosecute the perpetrator or perpetrators of this horrible crime. However, we are compelled to respond to the irresponsible statements of one of the deputy district attorneys who worked on the case, Trip DeMuth. Some ten years after the fact, DeMuth claims that he was somehow prevented by the Boulder Police Department from pursuing leads in the investigation. Based upon our knowledge of this matter, DeMuth's claim is ridiculous. Mr. DeMuth's assertion that the Boulder Police Department refused to pursue a variety of theories is also ludicrous. In our opinion, the Boulder Police Department, as well as Michael Kane, an experienced prosecutor, conducted an exhaustive and wide-ranging investigation of this matter. If Mr. DeMuth truly cares about seeing justice done, he should act responsibly and refrain from making inaccurate statements that could further jeopardize this investigation.

    The Boulder Police Department, over the years, investigated more than 160 potential suspects in the case.

    "A few people have accused the department of focusing too narrowly in its investigation of this homicide when that was not the case," said Chief Mark Beckner. "People who have spoken out that way have relied on the department's inability to discuss case specifics, but I cannot allow the misperceptions to go unanswered any longer."

    Daniel Hoffman has practiced law in Colorado since 1958 and he was the dean of the University of Denver College of Law from 1978 to 1984. He is now in private practice at a firm in Denver. Robert Miller was the U.S. Attorney for Colorado from 1981 to 1988. Before that, he was the Weld County district attorney for 10 years. He is now in private practice in Denver. Richard Baer was a state prosecutor in New York before joining a law firm in Denver. He is now the executive vice president and general counsel for a large corporation in Denver.
    Is this what you wanted, Jayelles?

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  3. #495

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    Hi Jayelles, Also the Mary Lacy 8/29/06 press conference you transcribed (on the sticky) tape 7. ML says 200 suspects seriously looked at by the BPD and DA's office.

  4. #496
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    Thanks guys. That is helpful, but I was sure there was a stat count somehwere that listed the number of people who were tested for DNA, handwriting, interviewed etc. Maybe I dreamt it!
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  5. #497

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    I'm trying to think...maybe it was Schiller's last documentary? Is there a transcript of that? I'll try to remember, because I think someone did do that run-down once or twice.... Thinking...thinking....

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  6. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    I just found something interesting which might point to a toilet rage scenario preceding the head bash (bold type mine):

    http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/...ey/0716jon.htm

    So JB's empty bladder might indicate that she did in fact shed urine before the head blow was delivered.
    So maybe the toilet rage theory isn't so far-fetched after all?
    I know that it has been argued (also by me) "suppose JonBenet shed post-mortem urine, why would the Ramseys be so dumb as to leave her in the urine-stained size 12-underwear if the cause of her death had in fact been toilet rage?"
    But perhaps the Ramseys, in their panic, didn't even realize that JB had shed some post-mortem urine?

    Maybe we are attributing far too much logic and reasoning to the staging efforts of the Ramseys, while in reality it was merely a jumbled mess resulting from their panicky (and stressed for time) state of mind?
    At least that's what Delmar England pointed out in one of his e-mails to me, and what he wrote really got me thinking.

    For I always want to fit it all together, with a 'logical' explanation for every piece of the puzzle, but maybe logic has to take a back seat if we really try to put ourselves in the Ramseys' shoes - parents who found themselves in a "point of no return situation", knowing that one of them had done irreparale damage to their child, and who, not wanting to take responsibility for what had happened, frantically tried to escape justice.

    Their ransom note was a wild and improbable concoction, and the garrote/ligature scene was clumsily staged. There is indeed not much logic in e. g. leaving a 17-inch space of cord between wrist ligatures.

    Although JB had obviously been the victim of chronic sexual abuse, still the rage attack on her could have been unconnected to that abuse.
    In short, JB's sexual abuser needn't automatically have been the person who delivered the head blow in a rage.

    But maybe JB's sexual abuser (I believe it was John) profited from the rage attack on JB, because Patsy (without realizing it), had forever silenced JB as a witness who might spill the beans.
    You have been been digging deeply rashomon. This is a very interesting article. I makes my head spin trying to sort it all out. This is what Delmar England stated. The head injury came first and the strangulation later. I believe this may have happened. It's the sexual abuse which ties me in knots (?).
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  7. #499

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    You know what? I wonder if anyone minds if I take Rashomon's last posts on the topic which Elle quoted and start a new evidence thread with it: Evidence 2?

    I just noticed this one is rather long and I can't remember what's on it anymore without going back and rereading. When I'm doing research and look up old thread, the longer ones take some time. This one has a lot of good stuff on it, but wow, it would take a long time to read it again.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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    3 Dimensional

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  8. #500

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    OK, Jayelles, this is my last, best effort. I've been at this for some time, and this is the closest I can come to a list of stats. DejeNu compilied it or copied it to FFJ, and ACR put it on her forum as well:

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...t=Todd+Hartman

    Quote Originally Posted by DejaNu
    Incest is the forte of Boulder. We can expect nothing less.

    "Trip DeMuth now works at the Faegre and Benson law firm in Boulder. He says Boulder police ignored leads in the JonBenet case because they were fixated on her parents."

    I would ask Mr. DeMuth to explain how the BPD could spend a million bucks just investigating only two suspects. Are we to assume DeMuth is also claiming that BPD and the City of Boulder falsified these official records as well?

    http://www.acandyrose.com/08262004D...essReleases.htm

    Memo
    TO: Mark R. Beckner, Chief of Police
    FROM: Joseph Pura, Director Financial Services
    DATE: December 17, 2001
    SUBJ: Expenses related to Ramsey Homicide

    1996 expenditures related to Ramsey Homicide Investigation:
    Overtime Expenses (604.75 Hrs.) $ 20,340.80
    Travel Expenses $ 248.38
    Investigative Expense $ 788.55
    Total Expenditures for 1966 $ 21,377.73

    1997 Expenditures related to Ramsey Homicide Investigation:
    On-duty Salary Expense $308,630.81
    Overtime Expense (3,929.5 Hours) $134,621.66
    Travel Expenses through 12-31-97 $ 57,392.46
    Investigative Expense through 12-31-97 $ 30,830.08
    Total Expenditures for 1997 $531,475.01

    1998 Expenditures related to Ramsey Homicide Investigation:
    On-duty Salary Expense - P.P.#26 $562,149.72
    Overtime Expense 954 Hours $ 37,541.46
    Travel Expenses through 12-31-98 $ 11,319.01
    Investigative Expense through 12-31-98 $ 19,946.74
    Total Expenditures for 1998 $630,956.93

    1999 Expenditures related to Ramsey Homicide Investigation:
    On-duty Salary Expense - P.P.#25 $220,780.26
    Overtime Expense (218.75 Hours) $ 10,554.11
    Travel Expenses through 12-30-99 $ 3,842.91
    Investigative Expense through 12-30-99 $ 3,010.70
    Total Expenditures for 1999 $238,187.98

    2000 Expenditures related to Ramsey Homicide Investigation:
    On-duty Salary Expense - P.P.#26 $133,648.28
    Overtime Expense $ 4,898.78
    Travel Expenses through 12-31-2000 $ 3,157.00
    Investigative Expense $ 4,369.25
    Total Expenditures for 2000 $ 146,073.31

    2001 Expenditures related to Ramsey Homicide Investigation:
    On-duty Salary Expense (through 12/17/01) $133,624.66
    Overtime Expense (through 12/17/01)
    I $ 3,005.59
    Investigative Expense $ 550.00
    Total Expenditures for 2001 $ 137,180.25

    Total expenditures related to Ramsey Homicide Investigation for 1996, 97,
    98, 99, 2000, 2001: $1,705,251.21

    (Does not include on duty costs of investigation for Management Exempt employees, such as Chief, Commander and Legal Advisor)
    ***
    http://www.acandyrose.com/08262004D...essReleases.htm

    Case Statistics

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dec. 17, 2001
    Contact: Jana Petersen, Media Relations, (303) 441-3090
    Jennifer Bray, Media Relations, (303) 441-3090
    City Web site: http://www.ci.boulder.co.us/

    Ramsey Update #84

    Police mark fifth anniversary of investigation As the fifth anniversary of the murder of JonBenet Ramsey approaches, Boulder Police have compiled updated statistical information related to the case.

    Number of people formally interviewed to date: More than 650
    Note: many have been interviewed more than one time

    Number of outside experts and consultants utilized to date: More than 60

    Number of persons investigated as possible suspects to date: About 140

    Number of items of evidence logged into property to date: About 1,400

    Approximate size of investigative case file to date: About 43,000 pages

    Number of phone tips: About 5,300

    Number of letters received in reference to Ramsey case: More than 4,800

    Number of states investigation has taken PD to: 18

    Total cost of investigation for Boulder PD: $1,705,251.21

    The case remains an open, active investigation, with up to four detectives working on the case on an as-needed basis. The work includes following up on tips received, reviewing the case file, occasional laboratory analysis, and keeping current on new forensic technologies that may assist the case.

    "Any homicide, but particularly the death of a small child, has a tremendous impact on the community," Police Chief Mark Beckner said. "We know that there are some cases we will never bring to a resolution. We also know that there are some cases we solve many years after the crime. We will never give up hope for finding justice in this case."
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    There there's this article, which I was looking for all evening--of course it was right here at FFJ:



    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat
    Beckner defends Ramsey work
    Karr arrest renews criticism of Boulder Police Department

    By Christine Reid, Camera Staff Writer
    September 1, 2006

    Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner thought the days of his department making it into Jay Leno's monologue were over.

    But following the brief consideration of John Mark Karr as a suspect in the JonBenet slaying case, "The Tonight Show" host worked the "Blunder Police Department" back into his show. And former members of the Boulder County District Attorney's Office, including Trip DeMuth, have renewed their criticism of the department's work.

    Beckner's tired of it.

    He said Thursday that he can no longer stay silent, and he wants the department's recurring role as the Ramsey-case punching bag to end.

    "I haven't been aggressive in that regard because of our professionalism to not have those disputes in the public arena," Beckner said during an hour-long interview at his office. "I don't want to talk now, but I'm not going to let our detectives have their credibility attacked over things that are not true."

    Boulder police investigated JonBenet's 1996 murder for six years before handing it off to the DA's office, which had Karr arrested Aug. 16 in Thailand. On Monday, District Attorney Mary Lacy dropped the case because Karr's DNA didn't match crime scene evidence.

    Revived interest in the case reopened old wounds as critics accused Boulder police of botching the investigation from the start by not immediately securing the Ramsey house as a crime scene, then focusing exclusively on the parents as suspects.

    Beckner admits the department made mistakes on the case, but he said it didn't ignore the possibility that an intruder killed the 6-year-old beauty queen. And he said the DA's office, then headed by Alex Hunter, wasn't without flaws.

    Beckner said DeMuth, who headed the Ramsey investigation for the DA's office for the first two years, was fixated on an intruder killing JonBenet and accused anyone who didn't buy his theory of "not following all the evidence."

    "I never understood how that goes just one way," Beckner said.

    He said the characterization of his department just focusing on the Ramseys is just plain wrong.

    "I have the evidence we investigated many people," he said.

    More than 100 huge, white binders line the shelves of a small, locked room that holds the department's Ramsey case files. Beckner grabbed one binder after another, and threw them onto a table, showing page after page of investigative reports on one-time suspects.

    He estimates that detectives investigated 150 to 160 people, many of whom gave blood, hair and handwriting samples before they were cleared.

    "Can you see why we get frustrated?" Beckner said.

    Beckner also grabbed four notebooks full of reports from DA investigators, showing that they followed leads themselves a practice that was never shut down by the police department, as DeMuth has asserted.

    Responding Thursday, DeMuth said Beckner doesn't know how the initial investigation went because he wasn't assigned to the case until about nine months had passed.
    And regardless of how many notebooks are in the evidence room, DeMuth said Beckner told him early on that detectives didn't want to hear any more about an intruder committing the crime.

    "I'm only telling the truth about what happened during the course of the investigation," DeMuth said. "I'm not seeking to criticize anybody. I'm just sharing information about what happened."

    On Thursday, after the Rocky Mountain News published a lengthy interview detailing DeMuth's allegations that he was hamstrung by the department, three Denver attorneys who helped Boulder police during their investigation issued a written response condemning the claims.

    "If Mr. DeMuth truly cares about seeing justice done, he should act responsibly and refrain from making inaccurate statements that could further jeopardize this investigation," said the statement, from Dan Hoffman, Robert Miller and Richard Baer.

    But DA investigator Lou Smit said DeMuth is telling the truth.

    "Mark Beckner made this statement that the Ramseys were the only ones under the umbrella of suspicion, and we didn't agree with that," Smit said. "I don't criticize any member of Boulder Police Department, but I do criticize the direction they took and the devastation it had on the Ramsey family."

    http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/coun...4960987,00.html

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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    3 Dimensional

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  9. #501

    Default

    OK, 5 hundreth reply, and let's close this thread!

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.



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