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  1. #49
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    yep...they got the "oh by thge way call a bit late !!".. at end of day Jb was probably ony 20 ft from justice....

    it will come one day!!
    These are my opinions only ( no copying now !! ), and of course assume all to be innocent !! of course !!

  2. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spade
    I agree that both John and Patsy staged the scene BEFORE they found out that someone under 10 couldn't be held criminally culpable. When Bynum told them that important fact, more than likely he also told them that possibly THEY could be held criminally culpable for their staging efforts. IMO this is the basis for the ongoing argument between Fleet White, the Ramseys and the Ramsey lawyers. (Remember Bynum telling FW to say out of it at 5PM 12/26/96)

    My personal opinion, absolutely no confirmation from FW, is that the White's opinion was then and continues to this day that the only way out of this mess is to tell the truth. Too bad johnny boy doesn't agree.
    That makes total sense. Maybe they did the staging/coverup before they actually spoke to Bynum and didn't tell him about the sexual abuse, just about the accident/homicide. I think if it had been just an accident, or even a rage-induced accident, the Ramseys might have come clean, but along with the sexual abuse, I can't see anyone admitting to that. And if they confessed to the accident, how could they defend the abuse? Quite the problem.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  3. #51

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    If Fleet and Priscilla testified to the grand jury, would not they have included what they know about Burke?

    I am not questioning the Whites - however, if by 5 PM Fleet was involved in discussions regarding Burke, would not his testimony have reflected this?

    So why no obstruction indictments?

  4. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat
    If Fleet and Priscilla testified to the grand jury, would not they have included what they know about Burke?

    The White family testified seven times to the GJ. We do know that FWIII testified about Burke's Hi-Tec boots but I have no knowledge about any other testimony.

    I am not questioning the Whites - however, if by 5 PM Fleet was involved in discussions regarding Burke, would not his testimony have reflected this?

    Fleet was cautioned by Bynum to: "Stay out of this!" I have no knowledge about discussions about Burke.

    So why no obstruction indictments?
    Excellent question!!!!! Maybe if the person who was responsible for JonBenet's death was under the age of criminal culpability it was not obstruction.

  5. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spade
    Excellent question!!!!! Maybe if the person who was responsible for JonBenet's death was under the age of criminal culpability it was not obstruction.
    Obstruction of justice can be charged just for interfering with a criminal investigation. Perjury is lying under oath. And in Federal world, it's a crime to lie to a Federal investigator (ask Martha Stewart).

    So even if the perp was under 10, it could be argued that just fibbing in depositions etc could have resulted in charges, elsewhere on the planet from Boulderworld.

  6. #54
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    Originally Posted by wombat
    If Fleet and Priscilla testified to the grand jury, would not they have included what they know about Burke?
    Maybe during their testimony, the Whites weren't asked any questions pertaining to Burke, except about his owning Hi-Tec boots.

  7. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangatruth
    I know I harp on this...but pluck away I will... I feel too many consider the whole event with the benefit of hidsight as it applies to the why's and wherefore's regarding the activities and methods of the Ramseys.. none of which is evident of some meticulously planned event.. Im sure there was never the intenrion that JB would die that night...so everything from that moment on was improvised , and done so with the bizzarre attitude to create a coverup...they used what was at hand..and applied their best efforts at a trail of clues..... they were trying to "Package " the event and subsequently ensure so much contamination of the crime scene as to make it useless ( the most effective thing they did , save "lose a few items off of the site ).

    we can now look back and proffer this or that as being some continuous and plausible motive etc.. we expect all the bits of the jigsaw to fit..indeed we expect al the bits to be there...they arent and it wont !!....They had the good frtune ( for them ) to have the contacts and money to bull(y)doze this whole unfortunate event into the abyss that is Boulder..

    its more brute force that skillful ruse....
    Imo the 'brute force' was the head bash, and what followed was a quite a bit of skillful ruse and staging.
    I don't believe that Patsy Ramsey, who was the wife of a multimillionaire, didn't know that the $ 118, 000 dollar sum she wrote in the ransom note was, plain and simple, ridiculous, considering the Ramseys' wealth. No way.
    Imo this was no confused and panic-driven Patsy (Delmar England's theory) who wrote the note, not knowing what she was doing - I think it was a panic-driven Patsy who consciously put that irregular sum in the note to implicate her housekeeper.
    Even before JB's body was found (PMPT pb, p. 15):

    Patsy asked Arndt why the author of the ransom note had not asked for a larger sum of money, or at least a round sum of money.
    Imo it sticks out like a sore thumb what Patsy was driving at.
    LHP was among the first people the Ramseys named as suspects. Patsy said she thought the note on the stairs had been left by the housekeeper, and that she had given LHP a loan.
    A low-paid housekeeper (to whom $ 118,000 probably was an awful lot of money) who might have seen John's payslip lying on his desk, came in handy for the Ramseys to throw under the bus.

  8. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    Imo the 'brute force' was the head bash, and what followed was a quite a bit of skillful ruse and staging.
    I don't believe that Patsy Ramsey, who was the wife of a multimillionaire, didn't know that the $ 118, 000 dollar sum she wrote in the ransom note was, plain and simple, ridiculous, considering the Ramseys' wealth. No way.
    Imo this was no confused and panic-driven Patsy (Delmar England's theory) who wote the note, not knowing what she was doing - I think it was a panic-driven Patsy who consciously put that irregular sum in the note to implicate her housekeeper.
    Even before JB's body was found (PMPT pb, p. 15):

    Patsy asked Arndt why the author of the ransom note had not asked for a larger sum of money, or at least a round sum of money.

    Imo it sticks out like a sore thumb what Patsy was driving at.
    LHP was among the first people the Ramseys named as suspects. Patsy said she thought the note on the stairs had been left by the housekeeper, and that she had given LHP a loan.
    A low-paid housekeeper (to whom $ 118,000 probably was an awful lot of money) who might have seen John's payslip lying on his desk, came in handy for the Ramseys to throw under the bus.
    I agree with you Rashomon.

  9. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    I don't believe that Patsy Ramsey, who was the wife of a multimillionaire, didn't know that the $ 118, 000 dollar sum she wrote in the ransom note was, plain and simple, ridiculous, considering the Ramseys' wealth. No way.
    Imo this was no confused and panic-driven Patsy (Delmar England's theory) who wrote the note, not knowing what she was doing - I think it was a panic-driven Patsy who consciously put that irregular sum in the note to implicate her housekeeper.
    I have always thought it was John who told Patsy to put his bonus amount in the note, to make it look like someone from Access Graphics was involved. He continued in that direction by bringing up Jeff Merrick's name several times to whoever would listen.

    On the radio last month, Merrick said he was called in three times, and the third time Steve Thomas asked him, "Why does John Ramsey keep bringing up your name?".

  10. #58
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    rashomon:I think it was a panic-driven Patsy who consciously put that irregular sum in the note to implicate her housekeeper.
    No! Not her housekeeper, Linda Hoffman Pugh, rashomon. She would not have known about the $118,000 bonus. Patsy Ramsey was the one who knew, although she denied it. This was purposely entered to detract the crime from them, and direct the Boulder Police to investigate the Access Graphics staff, because of the figure being the same as John Ramsey's bonus. This was Patsy and John's strategy. Jeff Merrick knew about his bonus and was interviewed. How could the Ramseys do this to a colleague of John's?

    I heard the audio of Jeff Merrick on one of the youtube audios. He was a very well spoken intelligent man. and he was happy to tell his side of things.

    http://dimwit.byethost5.com/jeff merrick.mp3 Courtesy of Yum Yum
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  11. #59
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    lol..possibly some intent of language gets lost in our different dilaects !! lol...

    by brute force and ruse ..i shall clarify as to my meanings.... force is this instance nothing to do with the whack per se....just the method of ensurrignthe ramsey way got done and the little ol PD and BDA to follow his intents.. i.e brute force.. the bullying of his legalese henchmen..

    there was no real cleverness to the ruse.. all made up on the fly.. grasping at this...and that...take this number..insert that acronym etc.. bumbling their way through the staging... had it been any reasonably competent police force both would have been behind bars.... they werent... more a case of ineptitude rather than any mesaurable ability to hoodwink with staging and such..

    Their ( ramseys) story had more and bigger holes than the titanic...had the white line had Ramsey on side then DiCaprio would have been out of a job!!

    quite simply the R's lucked out.. not by design...by happenstance !!
    These are my opinions only ( no copying now !! ), and of course assume all to be innocent !! of course !!

  12. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kangatruth
    lol..possibly some intent of language gets lost in our different dilaects !! lol...

    by brute force and ruse ..i shall clarify as to my meanings.... force is this instance nothing to do with the whack per se....just the method of ensurrignthe ramsey way got done and the little ol PD and BDA to follow his intents.. i.e brute force.. the bullying of his legalese henchmen..

    there was no real cleverness to the ruse.. all made up on the fly.. grasping at this...and that...take this number..insert that acronym etc.. bumbling their way through the staging... had it been any reasonably competent police force both would have been behind bars.... they werent... more a case of ineptitude rather than any mesaurable ability to hoodwink with staging and such..

    Their ( ramseys) story had more and bigger holes than the titanic...had the white line had Ramsey on side then DiCaprio would have been out of a job!!

    quite simply the R's lucked out.. not by design...by happenstance !!
    The amazing and annoying thing Kanga, is in spite of all of what you have stated above, the Ramseys still walked away from 755 15th Street free as the birds that fly in the sky. UNBELIEVABLE!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.



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