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  1. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    I don't mean that the housekeeper actually knew the sum, but the Ramseys could have suggested LHP might have seen John's payslip lying around somewhere. And since they had to write the ransom note on pen and paper from their own home, the idea of implicating the housekeeper may have been on their mind also. Not that the housekeeper was the only one they had in mind when concocting the note - therefore to make it appear as if an Access Graphics employee like for example Jeff Merrick had written the note may have been on the Ramseys' mind too. They simply threw everything they could into the mix of the RN, which is why the note as a whole is such a jumbled mess.
    There is no doubt imo that Patsy knew about the sum, and it is simply incredibly naive on the part of John Douglas to state that Patsy did not know the sum of John's bonus. All he had was her word that she didn't know!
    I never would have thought that a criminal profiler would let himself be deceived so easily. Fascinating.
    Yes, I figured this is what you were thinking about Linda Hoffman Pugh.

    It was unbelievable how John Ramsey listed off some of his Access Graphics staff, with Jeff Merrick heading the list. John Ramsey will never be able to look at any of his old colleagues straight in the eye "ever" again.

    John Douglas linked Tom Carson's name to this "suspicious dinner" list of Access Graphic colleagues of John. The one mentioned by Jeff Merrick on the Peter Boyles audio.


    Steve Thomas "JonBenét" (Courtesy of Little)

    Page 121
    They also had recited a list of suspects for us-Jeff Merrick, Mike

    Glynn, and Jim Marino, all former Access employees who had been

    seen at a mysterious dinner with Tom Carson, currently the company's

    chief financial officer. Then he shocked us by also offering the name of

    Fleet White. The Ramsey camp had turned on one of its best friends.

    Among the books Sergeant Wickman said were on John Ramsey's

    night stand was Mindhunter, by John Douglas. In the book he wrote that

    when loved ones or family members are the killers, careful attention is

    given to "staging" and diverting suspicion elsewhere. In the Ramsey

    case, the amateurish ransom note diverted the authorities for several

    hours.

    Douglas also wrote that holidays were particularly stressful times and

    could trigger violent behavior. JonBenet was killed over Christmas.

    Douglas stated that in parental murders, great care is usually shown

    in the disposal of the body. JonBenet had been carefully tucked into a

    blanket in a cellar room, and not discarded outside in the freezing cold.

    John Douglas was almost denying his own writings in order to give

    the Ramseys a pass. The dust jacket of his next book identified him as

    a consultant on the JonBenet Ramsey case. It did not say for which

    side.

    That same day, John Ramsey doubled the reward he was offering, to

    $100,000.



    Gosage and I returned to Access Graphics for an appointment with

    CFO Tom Carson, who had been so negatively portrayed by Patsy's

    mother and who was now linked by John Douglas to a suspicious dinner

    with Merrick, Marino, and another friend, Mike Glynn. Unlike

    most of the others at Access, Carson was open and helpful and had a

    rock-solid alibi. At the time JonBenet was killed, he was in France with

    his girlfriend, Natalie, and her parents.

    He dismissed the controversial dinner as just a get-together with old

    friends, not a conspiracy to commit murder across a table in a public

    restaurant in which John Ramsey was a part-owner.
    I would devote

    many hours to running down the stories of the others named, and the

    result was always the same. It was an innocent gathering that meant

    nothing to our case.

    Carson had no idea the Ramseys had given us a copy of the gently

    122

    worded handwritten sympathy note he sent them after the murder.

    Team Ramsey asked us to see if there was any link to the ransom note.

    Another of those at the dinner, Jim Marino, had known John Ramsey

    since the 1970s in Adanta and said he was a good guy with no enemies.

    When Marino had an accident in 1978 and was temporarily confined

    to a wheelchair, Ramsey offered him a sales job, which turned into

    long-term employment. Marino was making $51,600 a year when he

    left Access Graphics and considered himself a loyal friend of John

    Ramsey.

    Detective Gosage started to take hair samples before Marino could

    warn him that some were hair plugs that cost ten dollars apiece. He

    would be cleared as a suspect but remained an ongoing character in the

    case. Even while he defended his pal John Ramsey on national television,

    Marino would repeatedly be pointed out by Ramsey and his lawyer

    as a murder suspect.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  2. #74

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    Now he says he never made a profile for them!

    He sure has a bad memory for a lawman.

  3. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Punisher
    Now he says he never made a profile for them!
    He sure has a bad memory for a lawman.
    Who is he telling this to? Didn't he once say that he returned the money they paid him?

  4. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by BluesStrat
    Who is he telling this to? Didn't he once say that he returned the money they paid him?
    I just posted what was related to the Jeff Merrick post. My friend Little saves me from typing out a few pages. I have the paperback, She has the Hard Back, and scans a few pages for me in seconds. It sure does save me a lot of work, and it confirms the information is from Det. Steve Thomas' book, and they can go and read it in their own books. and find out more information themselves,

    With my paper back, the information below starts halfway through page 136. The paragraph before this is about the duct tape bought from McGuckin's hardware store.

    I did order a hardcover from Amazon, and it went astray. :-( So much easier to work from than a paperback. Meanwhile Little has been of tremendous help to me.

    The following scan is immediately before the one above. btw I have attempted scanning a few pages myself, but the text was actually changed, and I had to correct it (?).

    Steve Thomas - Page 120 -121
    Although still too distraught to meet with us, John and Patsy Ramsey

    spoke for several hours with their newest trophy hire, John Douglas,

    formerly with the FBI's behavioral sciences unit.

    John Ramsey's lawyer Bryan Morgan was at the profiler's side and

    permitted no direct questions about the Ramseys during a long interview.

    Douglas, wearing a silk tie and an expensive suit, talked with machine-gun

    rapidity. He said the killer was someone who knew the

    house well, because it was a high-risk situation, and he pronounced the

    murder to be a crime of anger directed toward John Ramsey.

    His former colleagues in the FBI disagreed and would tell us they

    were unaware of anyone killing a child as revenge against the parents.

    To my mind, a revenge killer would probably have left the lifeless body

    splayed beside the Christmas tree for maximum shock value.

    121

    I asked if Douglas knew of any kidnapping for ransom in which the

    victim was killed and left on the premises. He recalled a case involving

    a family member.
    Last edited by Elle_1; October 11, 2006, 3:16 pm at Wed Oct 11 15:16:14 UTC 2006.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  5. #77
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    Patsy asked Arndt why the author of the ransom note had not asked for a larger sum of money, or at least a round sum of money.

    I nearly fell off my chair when I read this....I watched the film Ransom last week. At one point Mel Gibson's character turns to the FBI man and asks him why the kidnapper's had not asked for a larger sum of money as everyone knew how much he was worth.

    The reply was they knew this amount was easy to get hold of at short notice..or maybe that's all they need.

  6. #78
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    I'm sorry if this has been asked and answered before PR claimed that her fibres may have ended up on JB because she threw herself on top of the body after John had brought JB upstairs.

    But, if I am reading it correctly, John covered JB with a blanket before the officer could stop him and before PR threw herself on top...so the blanket would have PR's fibres not the body..surely? Or am I missing something?

    1999 September 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 - Today Show with Detective Linda Arndt

    Vargas: You said it was apparent, even from that distance away, that she was dead

    Arndt: There was no doubt.

    Vargas: How did you know?

    Arndt: She had rigor mortis. Her arms were rigid right above her head with no support.

    Vargas: When John Ramsey went to call 911, what did you do?

    Arndt: I took JonBenét. I moved her from the hallway to the, um, the living room. I carried her just with the, the forearms. And I was cognizant that she was my sole responsibility, and the preservation of her was my responsibility. And was careful how I carried her, out of this pathway of heavy traffic. And I put her in the living room. She looked like she was sleeping. John Ramsey came back and he says, "can we please, could you please cover her body?" And as he's saying it, he's already put the blanket on top of her.

    (Voice Over) Det. Arndt would later be criticized for allowing John Ramsey to place a blanket on his daughter's body, jeopardizing the crime scene. It is a decision we will revisit with her, later.

    Arndt: John was next to JonBenét and, he did, uh, I guess his good-bye. And, uh, I heard, a wail, just a guttural, moan, aching wail from the back area. And, it was, uh, probably one of the most pitiful things I've heard and anguished. And I saw the rest of the people; Patsy and the pastor and the four friends, come from the den towards the living room. And, there's just so much, there's so much pain. (long pause) And tears, and noise.

    (VO) Still the only police officer in the house, the Detective waited and asked the pastor to lead the Ramseys and their friends in prayer.

    Arndt: I thought that would be the best way to organize everyone, to keep them distracted, to keep them from touching JonBenét and to keep them focused.

    Vargas: this house had suddenly become a homicide crime scene.

    Arndt: Ah, it became hell. It became hell. JonBenét was brought up at about five minutes after 1:00, and, um, at ten after, nobody had shown up. And I called 911. And I said, I gave them my radio number. I said the kidnapping has turned into a murder.

    http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-morning.htm

  7. #79
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    Amber: I'm sorry if this has been asked and answered before PR claimed that her fibres may have ended up on JB because she threw herself on top of the body after John had brought JB upstairs.

    But, if I am reading it correctly, John covered JB with a blanket before the officer could stop him and before PR threw herself on top...so the blanket would have PR's fibres not the body..surely? Or am I missing something?

    Not necessarily, Amber. For one thing, the fibers from Patsy's jacket were found ENTWINED in the cord around JB's neck. Just laying a blanket on top of her or throwing oneself on top of her wouldn't explain the fibers entwined in that cord. It also doesn't stand to reason that because the blanket was the first to come in contact that morning with JB after she was brought upstairs, Patsy's jacket fibers had to be on the blanket. If the fibers hadn't been entwined in the cord, they could have been transference, as you said, but they could also have been put there directly when Patsy threw herself over JB's body.
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  8. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watching You
    Not necessarily, Amber. For one thing, the fibers from Patsy's jacket were found ENTWINED in the cord around JB's neck. Just laying a blanket on top of her or throwing oneself on top of her wouldn't explain the fibers entwined in that cord. It also doesn't stand to reason that because the blanket was the first to come in contact that morning with JB after she was brought upstairs, Patsy's jacket fibers had to be on the blanket. If the fibers hadn't been entwined in the cord, they could have been transference, as you said, but they could also have been put there directly when Patsy threw herself over JB's body.


    That''s what I'm getting at - the entwined fibres cannot be explained by PR throwing herself on JB - but that's how she explains it.

    Add the fact that the body was covered with the blanket before and during the time she touched the body, means that the likelihood of transference of fibres from PR to JB is even less likely, but it's the excuse she uses during questioning.

    If the blanket covers JB after PR lays on top of her then her defence could argue transference...but if the she lays on top AFTER the blanket is laid on top then transference to the body is impossible. I was always under the impression that the blanket was applied AFTER PR's Lazarus speech. not before

  9. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amber
    That''s what I'm getting at - the entwined fibres cannot be explained by PR throwing herself on JB - but that's how she explains it.

    Add the fact that the body was covered with the blanket before and during the time she touched the body, means that the likelihood of transference of fibres from PR to JB is even less likely, but it's the excuse she uses during questioning.

    If the blanket covers JB after PR lays on top of her then her defence could argue transference...but if the she lays on top AFTER the blanket is laid on top then transference to the body is impossible. I was always under the impression that the blanket was applied AFTER PR's Lazarus speech. not before
    Oh, I see what you're saying, and I was wrong in my response to you. I was thinking the blanket was off JB when Patsy threw herself on her, but there really isn't any evidence to support that. You are right - if that blanket was covering JB, then Patsy's fibers would have been on the top of the blanket, not on JB. Great observation, Amber!


    PostScript - Okay, wait. In hindsight, I'm not sure about this. Did Patsy do her little Lararus performance before or after the blanket was placed over JB? Maybe someone could look into that.
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  10. #82
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    I thought John put the blanket over her right away because he didn't want Patsy seeing her as she was stretched out on the floor...there was some lag time there after John brought JBR upstairs, and the "friends" allowed Patsy to move out of the sunroom to where JBR was. (Sorry...my books are all packed so I can't be the one to check on this...KK would know!)
    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenét. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

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  11. #83
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    In PMPT, Schiller writes that when Ron Walker got to the house at about 1:30 p.m., JonBenet's body was not covered, and Patsy had already thrown herself all over "that child's" body. I don't have Steve Thomas' book b/c I checked it out of the library. I hope that helps.

    I'd type the passage in, but I'm trying to listen to Boyles right now. Later if you still need it.

    Heymom
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  12. #84
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    I quoted Linda Ardnt in my earlier post and I also found this:

    "I found the passage in PMPT too, on page 19 of the paperback:

    "When John Ramsey and others rushed back to the front of the house, Patsy sat for a moment on a couch in the rear of the house looking out a window. She did not move despite all the shouting that JonBenet had been found. In the living room, John Ramsey grabbed a throw blanket off a chair and placed it over JonBenet's body. He knelt on the floor next to his daughter, stroked her hair, and then laid down next to her, placing an arm around her. As he hugged his daughter, he began to cry, referring to JonBenet as 'my little angel'. Then he rolled away from JonBenet's body, and looked toward the hallway leading from the back of the house.

    Finally Barbara Fernie led Patsy by the hand toward JonBenet. Patsy threw herself on her daughter's body."

    Also, when JR looked toward the hall, was he looking for Patsy? Or was he looking toward the area of the house where the incident occurred?"

    That's 2 references that state the blanket was on JB before PR went near her.



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