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  1. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spade

    There were several meetings in the early months of the case that were attended by Douglas and Ellis Armistead. I don't recall Douglas complaining that the BPD wouldn't listen to him but I do think Douglas experienced health problems that had caused him to lose the secret sauce and 1/2 of the sesame seed bun from his happy meal.
    I believe I heard Douglas complaining about this in a TV appearance, but it has been years, so I can't point to it this minute. I know Thomas wrote about Douglas' trying to convince them that an intruder was the perp. But I am sure that I heard Douglas making the complaint that the BPD wouldn't listen to him and weren't receptive to his ideas when he went to them as a Ramsey team member, after his meeting with John Ramsey.

    I also remember that Douglas said that the Ramsey lawyers were very relieved when he told them that John was telling the truth, in his opinion. I remember Douglas stating that he'd interviewed many criminals and that if John was lying, he had Douglas fooled. Then Douglas said he couldn't do a "profile" of the killer because he hadn't seen the case files, but that what he knew about the crime scene told him that it was probably a male between the ages of blahblahblah.

    I think Douglas was also promoting a book or something at the time, wasn't he? Was he on LKL or a show like that after he'd done his assessment for the Ramseys? It has been so many years ago, but I'm sure I saw Douglas on TV, because I was a huge fan of his books and when he spoke, I listened.

    Now I'm just very disappointed in him and question his character. I read some Douglas writings shortly after I came online on a site called APB.com. Douglas was a guest columnist and I read all his columns for that site. And there it was: an entire column on "caring for the body" in a family murder, which went right along with EVERYTHING found in the Ramsey cellar room. But there was Douglas, denying all that he had written about the subject to proclaim that AN INTRUDER DID IT.

    Guess even our heroes have feet of clay.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  2. #14
    Join Date
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    Default

    As Spade pointed out, Douglas was the Rs' second choice, after Gregg McCrary turned them down.

    I found this tidbit during a "Gregg McCrary" search:

    http://joshua-7.com/jonbenet/6_16_97.htm

    Developments the week of June 16, 1997:

    Snip from second article:

    Former profiler Gregg McCrary, who headed the FBI Academy's child killer unit, was stunned when he learned that the Ramseys had been house-hunting in Atlanta and then went on vacation. "Just a few weeks ago the Ramseys were telling the world that they would devote the rest of their lives toward bringing JonBenet's killer to justice," McCrary told GLOBE. "Yet their actions are the complete opposite. This all points to their being responsible."

    "Their actions reveal no intention of trying to track down a killer but show they simply want to escape the situation."

    McCrary says: Truly grieving parents don't go on vacation. They get TOO involved and bang on the police door. They pound and scream. They're at the police HQ every living minute.

    He also found it bizarre that the Ramseys were nonchalant about the safety of their surviving son, Burke. During the vacation, GLOBE spotted Burke sailing with his young buddy Doug Stine in a dinghy on the choppy lake waters.

    For 15 minutes, Burke was out of sight of his parents, but they never seemed worried that he might have a boating accident - or that he might be grabbed by strangers. "Parents who've had one child murdered by an intruder are fearful," says McCrary. "They watch over surviving kids like a mother hen with chicks. They provide protection."

    The Ramseys' behavior suggests they have no fear of a stranger striking again - because they know who killed JonBenet.

  3. #15

    Default Tril

    Former profiler Gregg McCrary, who headed the FBI Academy's child killer unit, was stunned when he learned that the Ramseys had been house-hunting in Atlanta and then went on vacation. "Just a few weeks ago the Ramseys were telling the world that they would devote the rest of their lives toward bringing JonBenet's killer to justice," McCrary told GLOBE. "Yet their actions are the complete opposite. This all points to their being responsible."

    "Their actions reveal no intention of trying to track down a killer but show they simply want to escape the situation."

    McCrary says: Truly grieving parents don't go on vacation. They get TOO involved and bang on the police door. They pound and scream. They're at the police HQ every living minute.

    He also found it bizarre that the Ramseys were nonchalant about the safety of their surviving son, Burke. During the vacation, GLOBE spotted Burke sailing with his young buddy Doug Stine in a dinghy on the choppy lake waters.

    For 15 minutes, Burke was out of sight of his parents, but they never seemed worried that he might have a boating accident - or that he might be grabbed by strangers. "Parents who've had one child murdered by an intruder are fearful," says McCrary. "They watch over surviving kids like a mother hen with chicks. They provide protection."

    The Ramseys' behavior suggests they have no fear of a stranger striking again - because they know who killed JonBenet.


    Good find Tril----Thank you. Gregg McCrary and I have had several telephone conversations about this case. He is a very intelligent man.

  4. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Canada
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    8,381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrina
    I remember Lake making references to Mrs. Lake and perhaps Mrs. Lake even posted.

    Here is an archive of JW, which includes posts by "Lake".

    http://forums.delphiforums.com/jwscr...ges/?msg=123.1
    Spade, this url opened okay for me. There are posts like the following listed from 1998:

    March 1998 Joshua-7
    23 Msgs
    03011998BNF- Jameson Is [8] 11/18/2001
    03211998J-7- Soiling Information [15]
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  5. #17
    Join Date
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    Location
    Nebraska
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    Default

    Spade, it's very interesting that you've visited with McCrary about the case. From my online search, I see he's been quite outspoken in his belief - or at least suspicion - that the Rs were involved.

    With regards to the snip I posted... like the Ramseys, the Stines didn't seem worried that someone might steal their son either. This apparent fact has struck me all along. Susan Stine drove Burke and the Stines' son Doug to and from school when Burke returned to school after JonBenet's death, yet it wasn't until they arrived at the school that any anti-foreign faction measures ("Burke Watch" and the bogus alarm system) went into effect.

    Although Doug Stine and Burke Ramsey were best friends before JonBenet died, the adult Stines didn't become close friends of the Ramseys until afterwards.

    I think the Stines know the truth about what happened to JonBenet.

  6. #18

    Default Tril

    "Susan Stine drove Burke and the Stines' son Doug to and from school when Burke returned to school after JonBenet's death, yet it wasn't until they arrived at the school that any anti-foreign faction measures ("Burke Watch" and the bogus alarm system) went into effect."

    I agree Tril, that is why the pit bull's name should alway be posted as:

    Susan Stine ABK

  7. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Elle_1
    Spade, this url opened okay for me. There are posts like the following listed from 1998:

    March 1998 Joshua-7
    23 Msgs
    03011998BNF- Jameson Is [8] 11/18/2001
    03211998J-7- Soiling Information [15]

    Nothing opens up for me, maybe a rock of crack is stuck in my keyboard. Please post some of Lake's posts here.

  8. #20
    RiverRat's Avatar
    RiverRat is offline FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Left is Patsy Ramsey)
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    Default I want to go first!!!

    Susan Stine ABK is the Monkey in the Middle of way too many of the Cover-Ups in this case and I eagerly await the knowledge of where her chips will fall when this ride is finally over.
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  9. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
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    Default John Douglas

    Douglas is as phony as a three-dollar bill, and so is his little dog "Lake" Olshaker.

    BTW, Olshaker is probably "Rainsong", too. Same style, same dopey theories.

  10. #22

    Default Photograph 101

    From Yum-Yum's deleted post:
    ***************
    "Lake's theory was great ... as long as you IGNORE the available evidence. Stuff like beaver hair, sweater fibers, Bloomies, cobwebs, missing evidence of tracks to/from the home and debris in the home, the ransom note handwriting, Ramsey behavior (like Burke's voice on the 911 tape, failure to protect Burke, etc). It goes on and on."
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1. Beaver hair, sweater fibers, Bloomies, cobwebs, the ransom note handwriting, and Ramsey behavior is all consistant with a cover-up by John and Patsy. Nothing to do with an "under the age of criminal culpability" killer or killers.

    2. "missing evidence of tracks to/from the home and debris in the home" is simply not true.

    From John Ramsey ABK's 1998 interview with Lou Smit ABK:

    23 LOU SMIT: (Handing next sheet of
    24 photographs).
    25 JOHN RAMSEY:
    0779
    1 BRYAN MORGAN: If I understand it,
    2 all of these were taken in the early stages of
    3 the kidnapping scenes, which means early in the
    4 morning.
    5 LOU SMIT: Yes.
    6 JOHN RAMSEY: These tracks in the
    7 snow here, might have been bicycle tracks.
    8 LOU SMIT: That's in photograph
    9 101?
    10 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. It wasn't
    11 unusual for him to ride through the yard.
    12 LOU SMIT: Did you say he had a
    13 bicycle that Christmas?
    14 JOHN RAMSEY: I know we got -- I
    15 got a bicycle. I think that's what it was. I
    16 gave myself a bicycle.
    17 LOU SMIT: That Christmas?
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, Patsy got a
    19 bicycle, I got a bicycle, JonBenet got a
    20 bicycle. Burke already had one, I am pretty
    21 sure. I don't know what it is, I guess
    22 (INAUDIBLE).

    11 LOU SMIT: Now we are going to go
    12 kind of into later on when the photographs were
    13 taken later on the next day. And that
    14 photograph 204, what is that a photograph of?
    15 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, that's the
    16 same screen door going out on to the patio.
    17 LOU SMIT: That's the south door?
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
    19 LOU SMIT: Again that's the damage?
    20 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. I think that
    21 was -- that was there. Well, the door was
    22 locked at least in the picture, the inside door,
    23 but it seems to me I remember it was split,
    24 but --
    25 LOU SMIT: Okay. So that's damage
    0785
    1 to the door, that's the south door, it could
    2 have been --
    3 JOHN RAMSEY: It was split at
    4 least, there was some damage, yes. There was
    5 bicycle tread tires, that's what they look like,
    6 mountain bike tire.

    There are many additional references to the bicycle but no others to the bicycle tracks. At least that I can find.

    During my 1999 interview with Lou Smit ABK I asked him if he thought the "intruder" could be a juvenile? He responded: "Absolutely!"

    I followed up by asking him if the intruder could be Doug Stine? He responed: "Doug Stine should be looked at very closely."

    As I recall, Lake's theory is founded on a juvenile intruder who was a friend of Burke's.

  11. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerXIV
    Douglas is as phony as a three-dollar bill, and so is his little dog "Lake" Olshaker.

    BTW, Olshaker is probably "Rainsong", too. Same style, same dopey theories.
    Olshaker is gay? For Douglas? Okay, then. Whatever floats his boat.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  12. #24

    Default More on the Bicycle

    From the Evidence list:
    records bike registration 1 12 MTE

    From Patsy Ramsey ABK's 1997 interview:

    PR: Uh, well, the kids came up and woke us up and John went down, he went to get everything ready, you know, get the lights on, get the music on, you know. . .
    TT: Um hum.
    PR: . . .uh, I think he, he said he had, he brought he, Santa Claus Brought me a bicycle so he had to go get that under the tree. . .

    In a later interview John is asked what happened to JonBenet and Patsy's bikes but I can't lay my hands on the transcript. I think it is safe to say that his answer was vague.



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