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  1. #85
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    KoldKase:

    You know this means that John was in on the fix, at any rate, if true. Otherwise, why wouldn't John have awakened Burke to ask if he heard/saw anything? Why would John have left Burke alone in his room, unprotected, in that huge house before he could possibly have known if the kidnappers were positively not still in the home?

    It won't wash. You awake to find "A FOREIGN TERRORIST FACTION" has broken into your 4 FLOORS OF A RAMBLING home, has your daughter, and left a threat to kill her, you would not just ASSUME that they were no longer there. You don't KNOW what's going on, who they are, nor exactly which is up or down. You PROTECT YOUR FAMILY FIRST.

    Not John. Not Patsy. Let Burke sleep while we "run around" and read the note more closely on another level of the maze. On the floor. On his knees. And call 911 and HANG UP!

    Think about it. You know SOME STRANGERS have broken into your home...AND YOU GET LE ON THE PHONE ON 911...YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO HAS DONE THIS, WHERE THEY ARE, BUT YOU KNOW THEY ARE THREATENING YOUR CHILD...YOU AND YOUR OTHER CHILD AND SPOUSE ARE STILL IN THE HOME IN DANGER...YOU DO NOT HANG UP ON LE! That's your lifeline. What if they bust back in? What if it's a deranged maniac still hiding in the home? YOU DO NOT KNOW!

    That young woman whose 2 year old son is missing, the one who committed suicide? They played HER 911 call today. Guess what? Another strange 911 call. In the midst of telling the dispatcher her child had been kidnapped...she inserts the following: "I had put him to bed before I called anyone over." What did she mean? She had TWO MEN come over to her house and watch a movie BEFORE she "went to check on her son and found him missing."

    She's calling to report her baby has been kidnapped...and she THINKS to tell the dispatcher SHE HAD PUT HIM TO SLEEP BEFORE SHE CALLED THE MEN OVER. Why would she do that? Because she's creating HER ALIBI. No other reason. It doesn't even make sense unless you KNOW she had two men over to watch a movie. She's already trying to explain why THE TWO MEN NEVER SAW HER SON IN THE HOUSE.

    In the Nancy Grace show where the young mother called in and talked to Nancy, before the mother then wrote out several suicide notes and killed herself, Nancy had commentators from LE, a forensic psychiatrist, etc., on as well. Nancy kept asking the young woman if she had taken a polygraph, and the woman kept avoiding the question. This is what Nancy was so criticized for doing when the woman killed herself.

    That aside, my point is this: a LE officer on that show immediately said that in all his years in LE investigating murders, only two people had ever refused to take a polygraph. He said almost all those close to the victim are eager to clear themselves so LE can move on to find the perp. He said the only two who refused...ended up being guilty of the crime.

    I'm off topic here, I know, but I'm ranting because the Ramseys did every single thing a guilty person does. The 911 call was loaded with clues that it was staged as well. You do NOT hang up on LE when your family is under attack from an unknown, violent source. You do not leave your child unprotected when your family is under attack from an unknown, violent source. And YOU DO NOT HANG UP ON LE when your family is under attack and unprotected! You do not refuse to take a polygraph, refuse to talk to LE, when your family is under attack and your child has been murdered in your own home BY AN INTRUDER

    When you do all of those things, you are darn sure going to look guilty as sin. That's not the fault of BORG, not the fault of LE, not the fault of even an INTRUDER. That's the fault of THE RAMSEYS.

    So whatever Burke has to live with, he can blame on his parents. If he knows SOMETHING, he's learned to live with it for now. If his parents have taught him THEIR values, he'll keep his secrets to the grave, no matter how many innocent people have to pay for it.

    Well, that's my opinion, anyhow.
    You're working your way through it very well KK, and making a lot of good sense here. Great post!
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  2. #86
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    RiverRat is offline FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Left is Patsy Ramsey)
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    "I'm off topic here, I know, but I'm ranting because the Ramseys did every single thing a guilty person does. The 911 call was loaded with clues that it was staged as well. You do NOT hang up on LE when your family is under attack from an unknown, violent source. You do not leave your child unprotected when your family is under attack from an unknown, violent source. And YOU DO NOT HANG UP ON LE when your family is under attack and unprotected! You do not refuse to take a polygraph, refuse to talk to LE, when your family is under attack and your child has been murdered in your own home BY AN INTRUDER

    When you do all of those things, you are darn sure going to look guilty as sin. That's not the fault of BORG, not the fault of LE, not the fault of even an INTRUDER. That's the fault of THE RAMSEYS."


    RR
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  3. #87
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    I think leaving Burke alone in bed that morning is the biggest clue ever that the Ramseys knew there was no dangerous intruder to fear. Patsy by all accounts was a fairly normal mother and gathering your children in the face of danger is first and foremost when you have any inkling they are in danger.They were absolutely certain Burke was in no danger to let him just wander back into his lonely room that morning. They knew.

  4. #88

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    This is a little off the beaten track so forgive me, but Barbara Walters is in Oz at the moment, having interviewed Terri Irwin on the weekend about Steve's death. One of our local journalists has also done an interview. They are playing the shorts to promote the interview which will be tomorrow night.

    As I watched the brief clip of Terri, it struck me how appropriately and "normally" she was grieving for Steve, and how incredibly different it was to Patsy's theatrical, drugged performance on CNN a week after JonBenet's death. I had never seen Patsy and John's CNN interview until I saw it on You Tube just recently. It was so overly dramatic on Patsy's part.

    Terri is in so much pain it's palpable. It is just over 3 weeks since Steve died and she can still barely stop crying, she is not drugged out and in the brief clip I saw she said something like "I am still at the stage that I think it can't be true, I'm still expecting him to come home". I was shedding tears just watching those brief clips.

    The RST can tap dance around "different people grieve differently blah blah"...and yes, they do. I'm sure Terri will be criticised too for giving this interview, but in her case I can understand it. The media will not leave her alone until she does and she certainly did not seek this out herself. My point is simply that, to me at least, Terri is grieving the way that the majority of us would if we lost someone so close and precious to us.

    Nothing that Patsy or John EVER said or did was normal or appropriate by any rational standards and they cannot point the blame at anyone else for thinking they are involved and as guilty as can be. The irony to me is that they have gone to great lengths to "act" not-guilty, but that's the thing...most people could see through the acting and see it was for the purpose of trying to convince people of something other than the truth. To this day, only a few have been convinced by it.

  5. #89

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    Guess what, I found where Lake was a guest on the Dave Lucas Radio Show. Now if someone can figure out how to get the audio, (I can't) we can listen to him!


    http://webdollie2.tripod.com/davelucas02061999.htm

  6. #90
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    Zotto, you hit the nail right on the head mate.
    You always here the phrase, "People grieve differently. You don't know how you would act in the same situation."

    This lame excuse is just a load of crap.

    Yes, people grieve differently but there are some concrete behaviors that, if not displayed, raise a red flag.

    Such as;

    Not waking your other child to see if he heard anything during the night. Letting him sleep through the event is so unbelievable I don't know what to say.

    Calling your pilot to get out of town while your little baby's body lies on your hardwood floor. Compare to people like Marc Klaas, who you would have to knock unconscious before he would have left town without finding the killer of his daughter, and you can see how this is a major red flag.

    Not talking to the police.

    Lawyering up.

    Giving your first interview to CNN and proclaim that you are "moving on" with your life and you are not "angry" with the killer.

    Letting Burke go back to school without any sort of protection. NO PARENT WOULD LET YOUR OTHER CHILD OUT OF YOUR SITE IF YOU HAD A STRANGER KILL YOUR DAUGHTER AND HE WAS STILL OUT THERE.

    You do nothing to help find the killer of your daughter such as keep a tipline or website up.


    I could go on and on but you get the point.

    Yes, people do grieve differently. Perhaps a parent of a murdered child might be more stoic, not cry in public, maybe they would retreat to bed for many months, who knows? But the point is any differences are not going to be like the Ramseys. Their "grieving" is a sure sign of guilt.

    Police use behavior traits all the time to judge guilt. Why should we let the Ramseys explain away their cold behavior as grieving differently. We shouldn't.
    tgrif@xmission.com
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    I am unaware of anyone who's profited from exploiting the Ramsey murder over a longer period of time, with a greater disregard for the principles of accuracy and fairness, than the production team of Mills and Tracey.They truly do inhabit a different moral universe from real journalists. It's the difference between journalism and propaganda.
    Alan Prendergast,reporter for Westword

  7. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zotto
    This is a little off the beaten track so forgive me, but Barbara Walters is in Oz at the moment, having interviewed Terri Irwin on the weekend about Steve's death. One of our local journalists has also done an interview. They are playing the shorts to promote the interview which will be tomorrow night.

    As I watched the brief clip of Terri, it struck me how appropriately and "normally" she was grieving for Steve, and how incredibly different it was to Patsy's theatrical, drugged performance on CNN a week after JonBenet's death. I had never seen Patsy and John's CNN interview until I saw it on You Tube just recently. It was so overly dramatic on Patsy's part.

    Terri is in so much pain it's palpable. It is just over 3 weeks since Steve died and she can still barely stop crying, she is not drugged out and in the brief clip I saw she said something like "I am still at the stage that I think it can't be true, I'm still expecting him to come home". I was shedding tears just watching those brief clips.

    The RST can tap dance around "different people grieve differently blah blah"...and yes, they do. I'm sure Terri will be criticised too for giving this interview, but in her case I can understand it. The media will not leave her alone until she does and she certainly did not seek this out herself. My point is simply that, to me at least, Terri is grieving the way that the majority of us would if we lost someone so close and precious to us.

    Nothing that Patsy or John EVER said or did was normal or appropriate by any rational standards and they cannot point the blame at anyone else for thinking they are involved and as guilty as can be. The irony to me is that they have gone to great lengths to "act" not-guilty, but that's the thing...most people could see through the acting and see it was for the purpose of trying to convince people of something other than the truth. To this day, only a few have been convinced by it.
    I watched the memorial service to Steve and bawled my eyes out the entire time. Terri did look as if she is still rather in shock, and in lots of pain. To lose your soul-mate, and the most loving father on the planet, what a horrible thing. Thanks for letting me know about the Barbara Walters interview. Bless her heart and her children's hearts. Bindi is such a little darling and so much like her daddy. (sob)

    I have stated this from the first day I posted here - that the Ramseys have never behaved normally in this situation, not from the first moment. Any sane person could see that they are guilty, guilty, guilty. I still insist that guilt and lying show through the TV. I can sure see it when someone who is not an actor is trying to act a part. It's bad acting! Lying shows. The Ramseys lied, and continue to lie to this day. Well, Patsy can't lie any more. She's lying in the earth.

    Heymom
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

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  8. #92
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    Exclamation Good Point Tricia

    I am recalling the zombie-like behavior that Laci Peterson's mother had when her body was still missing. Now there was a driven woman in total grief over the loss of her child even though she was an adult. She did bang on the LE doors often with her phone calls and being at the station. She searched herself to exhaustion around their area. She became catatonic in bed from her grief. Yes, it was extreme but it was grief none the less.

    The Ramseys displayed a very different kind of grief from any we have seen from the parents of murdered or missing children.

    And the single thing that keeps coming back to me is how Johnny boy and Patsy ignored the ransom note completely. I mean completely. "Do not even tell a dog". Well they invited the neighborhood over to watch them I believe so that they could perform their acts of so called grief. Paatsy rolling on the floor in "her grief". BS! Yes, she was now sorry at the thought that her little star was now dead and she knew all about it. That was grief but guilty grief through and through......... for both of them
    "When are we going to get our heads out of the sand and understand that sometimes really nice people who look good on the outside are dastardly on the inside." Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor, MA

  9. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat
    "I'm off topic here, I know, but I'm ranting because the Ramseys did every single thing a guilty person does. The 911 call was loaded with clues that it was staged as well. You do NOT hang up on LE when your family is under attack from an unknown, violent source. You do not leave your child unprotected when your family is under attack from an unknown, violent source. And YOU DO NOT HANG UP ON LE when your family is under attack and unprotected! You do not refuse to take a polygraph, refuse to talk to LE, when your family is under attack and your child has been murdered in your own home BY AN INTRUDER

    When you do all of those things, you are darn sure going to look guilty as sin. That's not the fault of BORG, not the fault of LE, not the fault of even an INTRUDER. That's the fault of THE RAMSEYS."


    RR
    Excellent post RR. And don't forget you don't evade talking to LE yet set up an interview on CNN no less, just days after your child is murdered. I love this part of your post:

    When you do all of those things, you are darn sure going to look guilty as sin. That's not the fault of BORG, not the fault of LE, not the fault of even an INTRUDER. That's the fault of THE RAMSEYS."


  10. #94
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    RiverRat is offline FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Left is Patsy Ramsey)
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    I wish that was my post! Of course, KK tossed that one out and I stole it since it's what we do.
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  11. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freebird
    I think leaving Burke alone in bed that morning is the biggest clue ever that the Ramseys knew there was no dangerous intruder to fear. Patsy by all accounts was a fairly normal mother and gathering your children in the face of danger is first and foremost when you have any inkling they are in danger.They were absolutely certain Burke was in no danger to let him just wander back into his lonely room that morning. They knew.
    You think like I think, Freebird. The minute I would have found out one of my kids was missing from her bed, I'd have flown to my other children's bedrooms and protected them with my life, which means they would have been with me every second, and I would most certainly would have questioned them about hearing or knowing anything during the night. No way would I have allowed them to remain alone in their rooms, unprotected, when an intruder could still have been inside my home.

    To me, that was at the top of my list of reasons why the Ramseys knew Burke was in no danger, and they knew why he wasn't in any danger. `
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  12. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoomama
    And the single thing that keeps coming back to me is how Johnny boy and Patsy ignored the ransom note completely. I mean completely. "Do not even tell a dog". Well they invited the neighborhood over to watch them I believe so that they could perform their acts of so called grief. Paatsy rolling on the floor in "her grief". BS! Yes, she was now sorry at the thought that her little star was now dead and she knew all about it. That was grief but guilty grief through and through......... for both of them
    Yeah, that is what leads me to think that JR knew and probably did the deed in the first place, because he didn't act as if he thought the note *might* be true. He wouldn't have taken the chance if he thought there was even a possibility it was true. Also, if you then add John Andrew's reply that the murderer should be granted "forgiveness," you begin to turn toward either the BDI theory (not my belief) or that the perp was JR all along. I seriously doubt if John Andrew would have wished forgiveness for his stepmother. But if his dad told him it had been an accident gone wrong, he might have that reaction.

    Heymom
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!



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