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  1. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom
    Yeah, that is what leads me to think that JR knew and probably did the deed in the first place, because he didn't act as if he thought the note *might* be true. He wouldn't have taken the chance if he thought there was even a possibility it was true. Also, if you then add John Andrew's reply that the murderer should be granted "forgiveness," you begin to turn toward either the BDI theory (not my belief) or that the perp was JR all along. I seriously doubt if John Andrew would have wished forgiveness for his stepmother. But if his dad told him it had been an accident gone wrong, he might have that reaction.

    Heymom

    I think JR did tell JAR. Remember the preacher on TV who stood before God and his congregation and the whole world to announce (after he had been caught with a prostitute): I have sinned. I have sinned against my God, I have sinned against my wife, I have sinned against my family, blah blah. He even cried real tears. Whether he was truly sorry or not, I can't say. I'm sure he was sorry he was caught. What he was really saying was - I am a good man who made a terrible mistake, and now I am sorry, but I don't deserve to be punished for it, because that one moment doesn't define who I am.

    This is the same feeling I got when I heard JAR say the killer deserved forgiveness. If he didn't know who the killer was, why would he say such a thing? He would feel no need to forgive a stranger who so viciously ended his little sister's life. When he said it, I immediately thought he was talking about himself, but I realized he had to be talking about a member of his family - someone he loved deeply.

    I can see JR talking to JAR alone, confiding in him that he, or Patsy, had sinned against God, sinned against their daughter, their family. I can see him either showing or professing remorse on behalf of himself or Patsy, basically using the same reasoning the preacher used - we are good, Christian people - we sinned and we've confessed our sins. God knows our hearts. We shouldn't have to go to prison for the rest of our lives for making one mistake.

    Yeah, I think it went down something like that.
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  2. #98

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    I just listened to "Lake" from the audio files of the Dave Lucas show,
    he has a very deep southern accent and sounds quite elderly and sinister. On one tape he says he is calling from Louisiana, on another he says "eastern coast".

    I've seen Mark O. on TV and don't recall him being either eldery or having a deep southern/Louisiana accent,but then again, I did not pay that much attention. I can't seem to find a bio on Mark O anywhere, but I am doubting that they are one in the same now. It is possible Mark O posted but maybe under a different hat.

    By the way, one of the audio files with Lake also contain Darnay and Jameson. Very interesting.. I am going to listen to them all. And thanks ACANDYROSE for saving these, I never knew about listening to the show when it was going on.

    http://webdollie2.tripod.com/davelucas02061999.htm

  3. #99
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    I wonder if Lake was related to the worm farmer. Ellique.
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  4. #100
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    Right on Tricia. I love that Jeralyn Merritesque line "everyone reacts differently"--which really is basically saying that you should leave your reasoning abilities at the door. You know, like when a woman is raped, you shouldn't assume that she'd be apprehensive around men she didn't know, or that she'd be afraid to be alone. She might, instead, choose to parade down the street in the middle of the night, nude, singing Christmas carols. You just can't predict these things. She might buy a girraffe. She...she...there's just no way of knowing.

    Or take the situation of your daughter being kidnapped in the middle of the night. Now, Know-it-alls like Tricia and Freebird might assume that you'd wake your son who was in the next room, to see if he heard anything or at the very least, make sure he's not the next kid to turn up missing. NO WAY--you just cannot assume these things.

  5. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobC
    Right on Tricia. I love that Jeralyn Merritesque line "everyone reacts differently"--which really is basically saying that you should leave your reasoning abilities at the door. You know, like when a woman is raped, you shouldn't assume that she'd be apprehensive around men she didn't know, or that she'd be afraid to be alone. She might, instead, choose to parade down the street in the middle of the night, nude, singing Christmas carols. You just can't predict these things. She might buy a girraffe. She...she...there's just no way of knowing.

    Or take the situation of your daughter being kidnapped in the middle of the night. Now, Know-it-alls like Tricia and Freebird might assume that you'd wake your son who was in the next room, to see if he heard anything or at the very least, make sure he's not the next kid to turn up missing. NO WAY--you just cannot assume these things.

    You can't assume anything reasonable because there really is no objective right or wrong, so how can we judge anyone for anything? We can't say whose reactions are suspect if every single person has a different reality. And the general illiteracy of the population supports these philosophies...They don't understand logical fallacies and tend to accept whatever the mainstream media throws at them, and they swallow it whole. Life is relative and only the individual can judge what is right for him or her. If we hold this core belief much longer we are doomed.


    Heymom
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  6. #102
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    Heymom-meanwhile, back on the planet earth, yeah most people want to keep the other kid close when the first kid is raped and murdered by somebody who could still be in the house.

    Check your reasoning at the door!!!

  7. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrina
    I just listened to "Lake" from the audio files of the Dave Lucas show,
    he has a very deep southern accent and sounds quite elderly and sinister. On one tape he says he is calling from Louisiana, on another he says "eastern coast".

    I've seen Mark O. on TV and don't recall him being either eldery or having a deep southern/Louisiana accent,but then again, I did not pay that much attention. I can't seem to find a bio on Mark O anywhere, but I am doubting that they are one in the same now. It is possible Mark O posted but maybe under a different hat.

    By the way, one of the audio files with Lake also contain Darnay and Jameson. Very interesting.. I am going to listen to them all. And thanks ACANDYROSE for saving these, I never knew about listening to the show when it was going on.

    http://webdollie2.tripod.com/davelucas02061999.htm
    Sabrina, I just did a little research on Mark Olshaker, and I think you are right that Mark Olshaker was not elderly in 1999. In addition, from what I could find, Olshaker has lived in the Washington DC area since graduating with a BA in Arts & Letters from George Washington University in 1972. Assuming Olshaker went to college right after high school, that means he was born ca 1950, and would now be around 56-years-old. Olshaker currently lives in Washington DC with his wife, Carolyn.

    Olshaker was MC on 3 May 1997 for a GWU dinner at the National Press Club. He is also a trustee for the Cosmos Club Foundation, a non-profit group that encourages the arts, sciences, literature and humanties through awards. Olshaker serves on the Board of Directors for the English-Speaking Union, an international organization. He has also directed and produced several film productions. In 1990, Olshaker wrote and directed a version of "Hamlet" that starred Kenneth Branagh.

    Olshaker doesn't sound like a good candidate for "elderly and sinister" or even a "very deep Southern accent."

    Furthermore, even IF "Lake" was Olshaker, that doesn't mean he had any inside information. Douglas was paid off by the Ramseys to point the finger elsewhere. He didn't need case files for THAT.

  8. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobC
    Heymom-meanwhile, back on the planet earth, yeah most people want to keep the other kid close when the first kid is raped and murdered by somebody who could still be in the house.

    Check your reasoning at the door!!!
    Yep, too many people have done that lately...

    About the reactions of the Ramseys - Yep, exactly. When I sat down and considered all the actions from start to finish, there is NO POINT at which the Ramseys acted normally for the situation. First, if I found one of my kids missing, of course I'd wake the other one up and find out if he saw/heard/did anything. I'd search the house and yard. Then I'd read the ransom note, more than once. I'd ask my husband what we should do. I guess we'd probably find a way to call the FBI, but NOT let the kidnapper know that we had. We'd be arranging the money if the FBI told us to. Our other son would be in police custody for his own protection. We wouldn't be hiring lawyers or asking our pastor to the house, especially if the note told us not to contact anyone. In fact, my husband might be inclined to just follow the instructions and give the kidnappers the money.

    If the child was then found dead, say outside the house (because if the body were found inside the house, it would mean one of us had done it), we'd be living at the police station, and calling news media every single day, to help find the killer. I'd probably get really angry at first, I mean REALLY angry, and hubby might have to be the family front man for a while. We would not request our child's body until every scrap of evidence was obtained. We would not contact CNN to complain about what the police hadn't done, or state that LE was persecuting us. We would try to use the media to keep the case active and in front of people to help get tips to solve the crime.

    We would take polygraphs, have interviews, etc. and would not hire our own experts to interfere with the investigation.

    This is what a family would do, IF THEY WERE INNOCENT.

    Heymom
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  9. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom
    Yep, too many people have done that lately...

    About the reactions of the Ramseys - Yep, exactly. When I sat down and considered all the actions from start to finish, there is NO POINT at which the Ramseys acted normally for the situation. First, if I found one of my kids missing, of course I'd wake the other one up and find out if he saw/heard/did anything. I'd search the house and yard. Then I'd read the ransom note, more than once. I'd ask my husband what we should do. I guess we'd probably find a way to call the FBI, but NOT let the kidnapper know that we had. We'd be arranging the money if the FBI told us to. Our other son would be in police custody for his own protection. We wouldn't be hiring lawyers or asking our pastor to the house, especially if the note told us not to contact anyone. In fact, my husband might be inclined to just follow the instructions and give the kidnappers the money.

    If the child was then found dead, say outside the house (because if the body were found inside the house, it would mean one of us had done it), we'd be living at the police station, and calling news media every single day, to help find the killer. I'd probably get really angry at first, I mean REALLY angry, and hubby might have to be the family front man for a while. We would not request our child's body until every scrap of evidence was obtained. We would not contact CNN to complain about what the police hadn't done, or state that LE was persecuting us. We would try to use the media to keep the case active and in front of people to help get tips to solve the crime.

    We would take polygraphs, have interviews, etc. and would not hire our own experts to interfere with the investigation.

    This is what a family would do, IF THEY WERE INNOCENT.

    Heymom

    Damn straight. That is exactly what innocent folks would do. What the Ramseys did is exactly what guilty people do. Reality bites, doesn't it, RST.
    Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry,
    the philosophy which does not laugh,
    and the greatness which does not bow before children.

    ---Kahlil Gibran---

  10. #106
    BobC is offline Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript and Book Reviewer
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    yup. To solve any crime, you have to be able to put yourself in the shoes of the people involved. start out thinking the Ramseys are totally innocent and go from there. They are innocent, and they find their daughter is missing, and Burke is/was in the NEXT ROOM.

    What would be logical for the innocent Ramseys to do next, given the very sketchy info they had at the time?

    Answer: they want more information. They want to understand what is happening. Who is most likely to provide more information? Burke. He was just a few feet away. But the Ramseys didn't wake him, nor did Burke wake up when Patsy was screaming bloody murder right outside his door (remember Burke told cops he could hear, from his room, the refrigerator door opening on the first floor) RED FLAG.

  11. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobC
    yup. To solve any crime, you have to be able to put yourself in the shoes of the people involved. start out thinking the Ramseys are totally innocent and go from there. They are innocent, and they find their daughter is missing, and Burke is/was in the NEXT ROOM.

    What would be logical for the innocent Ramseys to do next, given the very sketchy info they had at the time?

    Answer: they want more information. They want to understand what is happening. Who is most likely to provide more information? Burke. He was just a few feet away. But the Ramseys didn't wake him, nor did Burke wake up when Patsy was screaming bloody murder right outside his door (remember Burke told cops he could hear, from his room, the refrigerator door opening on the first floor) RED FLAG.
    That is how we know they lied from the beginning, because right away, their responses just don't make sense. We all know that Burke should have been awake, yet both parents denied that, and kept him in his room, supposedly sleeping, when all that was going on.

    That red flag? It's as big as Boulder.

    Heymom

    p.s. Edited to add: People are the most vehement and volatile when they are either lying or supporting someone they KNOW is lying. I believe that is why jameson and her ilk are so nasty - because in their heart of hearts, they know the Ramseys cannot be defended. They get angry because reality is different from what they WANT to believe. I know that with one of my sons, when he blows up at me, I am on the right track.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  12. #108

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    Would you let your son out of your sight for ONE SECOND in those circumstances?



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