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Thread: PatsyRamsey.com

  1. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles
    I've only recently seen the pageant videos thanks to Why_Nut (previously they were in a format I couldn't use) and she did wiggle her backside and wink. Is that something a 6 year old would do? Sure, my 6 year old winks at her dad and I in fun, but she thinks backside wiggling is rude/funny and she would be too shy to do that outside of the home. However, we have a different culture.
    JonBenet didn't just wiggle her backside and wink. She also rubbed her lower stomach/abdomen area with a suggestively circular motion while swinging her hips and sashaying seductively (see Christmas performance video). Watching that made me sick. No child does THAT instinctively.

    All of JonBenet's stage moves were choreographed and taught to her by someone ... the legs splayed apart sideways rock in the cowboy boots, the Marliyn Monroe peek-a-boo pop out from behind the masquerade mask, the slow stripping and raised skirts of the black and white outfit. None of those were the spontaneous expressions of a six-year-old.

    Scottish culture isn't that different from American culture. Children are relatively the same all over the world at six years of age.

    Tootsie's innocent wink at her mum and dad is miles away from JonBenet's seductive "come hither" wink at an audience full of strangers. JonBenet was sexualized and taught to be provocative. I'm sure in Patsy's twisted mind, she thought it was cute.

  2. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox
    The photos of JonBenet with sexy expressions could be the result of accident rather than coaching. Those pictures could have been found among many done in a photo session. But there would probably have to be quite a number of photos for those rare expressions to show up, and a person would have to hunt them out. The fact that those sexy pictures were developed and published shows someone in charge was making inappropriate decisions concerning JonBenet and sexual expression.

    The sexualized gestures by JonBenet in the pageants could only have been coached. Therefor, it is logical to consider the sexual expressions in the photo shoots to have also been coached also.

    There is a sexual component to the Ramsey case; the apparent vaginal abuse.

    The sexual nature of John and Patsy should be looked at. Patsy dated few boys and they usually were older than she. She married an older man, and when proposed to, she said she had to ask her mother. There are reports of frigidity in her marriage. Yet she presented herself on stage as a person with knowledge of her sexuality.

    It is my opinion that Patsy was a girl and then a woman with a latent development of her own sexual nature. She learned to perform and present herself as sexual for the pageants and for society without ever having her own sexual nature stimulated and developed. She entered marriage by the motives of becoming a wife and instant mother to John's children and possibly a mother to her own children, but without the motive of sexual gratification.

    This is not unprecedented. It is in fact common in arranged marriages.

    Having never faced the instinct of her own sexual drive, Patsy did not learn to mediate it. She merely performed.

    Patsy fused her identity with JonBenet. As JonBenet grew, Patsy transfered her latent sexual development to the growing child. That latent development was compressed in time and in general it was not mediated. Patsy's latent sexual nature was inappropriately expressed through JonBenet.


    That is rather obvious in the pageants and photo shoots and it can be deduced from the evidence of vaginal abuse and the many trips to the doctor for ailments "in that region" of JB's body.

    All that being said, I don't think sex is the major factor in the Ramsey murder. The boundary of sex that was crossed by Patsy is one indication of a person with deeper problems; problems of ego development and identity development. Those problems led to a psychosis that was expressed with the typical attachment to mythic imagery.

    Sex is an ancillary theme in the Ramsey murder, not a primary motive, in my opinion.
    I agree. I'll go a step further and make the connection between the vaginal issues and Patsy. Patsy was clearly the one who orquestrated the inappropriate sexualized behaviour displayed by JB, is it a stretch to assume she was responsible for other sexual misconduct going on?
    Occam's Razor... "One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything."

  3. #51

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    "Patsy fused her identity with JonBenet. As JonBenet grew, Patsy transfered her latent sexual development to the growing child. That latent development was compressed in time and in general it was not mediated. Patsy's latent sexual nature was inappropriately expressed through JonBenet."

    You're not alone, Paradox. I know three psych-types who agree.

  4. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Punisher
    "Patsy fused her identity with JonBenet. As JonBenet grew, Patsy transfered her latent sexual development to the growing child. That latent development was compressed in time and in general it was not mediated. Patsy's latent sexual nature was inappropriately expressed through JonBenet."

    You're not alone, Paradox. I know three psych-types who agree.
    Yeah, but tell us lay-type-folks what the heck this means!!

    Heymom
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  5. #53

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    Okay, here it is, straight from the horse's mouth:

    Jamie Turndorf: I've seen this many times with women who have been molested themselves. Subconsciously, Patsy may have been replaying that trauma with JonBenet. We call this "repetition compulsion," the need to repeat a traumatic experience until it is resolved.

  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherokee
    JonBenet didn't just wiggle her backside and wink. She also rubbed her lower stomach/abdomen area with a suggestively circular motion while swinging her hips and sashaying seductively (see Christmas performance video). Watching that made me sick. No child does THAT instinctively.

    All of JonBenet's stage moves were choreographed and taught to her by someone ... the legs splayed apart sideways rock in the cowboy boots, the Marliyn Monroe peek-a-boo pop out from behind the masquerade mask, the slow stripping and raised skirts of the black and white outfit. None of those were the spontaneous expressions of a six-year-old.

    Scottish culture isn't that different from American culture. Children are relatively the same all over the world at six years of age.

    Tootsie's innocent wink at her mum and dad is miles away from JonBenet's seductive "come hither" wink at an audience full of strangers. JonBenet was sexualized and taught to be provocative. I'm sure in Patsy's twisted mind, she thought it was cute.
    I think I know the clip you mean. What was she singing? I thought the circular stomach rubbing meant she was singing about food!
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  7. #55
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    Default Jayelles

    In the clip she is singing the words, "later we'll have some pumpkin pie and we'll do some caroling." So, yes, it could be referring to food.

    But, as Cherokee pointed out, it would be one thing for a child to rub her stomach in that "yummy, give me something for my tummy" way but quite another when JonBenet does it while swiveling her hips and sashaying around in what truly is a rather provocative stance. That was a coached move. And it really wasn't appropriate for a six year old to do.

  8. #56
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    Whoever taught JonBenet the circular motion for something "yummy for my tummy", taught her to do the circular motion low on her abdomen instead of her tummy. That's what makes it look suggestive. That and the wiggling hips.

  9. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles
    I think I know the clip you mean. What was she singing? I thought the circular stomach rubbing meant she was singing about food!
    In the clip I saw, JonBenet wasn't singing about food when she's rubbing her abdomen and wiggling her hips. While performing that motion she sings, "Deck the halls with boughs of holly, rockin' around ..."

    Here's the clip. The abdomen rubbing/hip wiggling of the Christmas performance is 24 seconds into the 4 1/2 minute video tribute.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djjdaGwpdDA

  10. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pearlsim
    In the clip she is singing the words, "later we'll have some pumpkin pie and we'll do some caroling." So, yes, it could be referring to food.

    But, as Cherokee pointed out, it would be one thing for a child to rub her stomach in that "yummy, give me something for my tummy" way but quite another when JonBenet does it while swiveling her hips and sashaying around in what truly is a rather provocative stance. That was a coached move. And it really wasn't appropriate for a six year old to do.
    Thanks. In the clip that I've seen, there was a song playing over the video so I didn't know what she was singing!

    I'm sorry guys, this is one of the reasons why I usually avoid discussion of the pageants. I do find the heavy make-up and coiffed hair rather eyebrow-raising, but I cannot see "sexual" in her dancing. When he was 18 months old, I took my son to one of his father's gigs and he ran up the stage and yelled "Dadda" then proceeded to wiggle his bottom furiously in time to the music.

    If you ask our Tootsie to show you how her older sister walks, she will sashay "provocatively" with a pronounced wiggle and then collapse in a heap of giggles. She isn't being intentionally sexy - she's just mimicking, but it's so exaggerated.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  11. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom
    Yeah, but tell us lay-type-folks what the heck this means!!

    Heymom
    It's actually more difficult for us "psych types" to put things in layman's terms than it is to use text book lingo.

    My understanding is based on the reality of the unconscious or archetypal psyche. To understand that, a person has to "go there". A layperson can't fully understand it without going there, and going there is very dangerous.

    Most simply put: Patsy split psychologically when she was a child, due to trauma. That trauma may have been sexual abuse and it may have been simply boundary crossing intrusion by an adult parental figure. No inappropriate physical contact is necessary, just the spoken word can do this.

    Patsy then grew up developing a personality and identity based on another person's idea of who she should be, not on her own sense of self. Her own sense of self remained unconscious, undeveloped and childlike, while she pursued an identity based on social performance, developing a pattern of getting recognition and approval from other people.

    In midlife, her inner child began to "come to". It began to intrude into Patsy's life more and more with the amorallity of childhood. This was her dark side, her split-off personality. The two sides could not merge successfully. It could only be done in fantasy. Like many psychotics, Patsy used an object in the real world to help make her fantasy real. It got to the point that the real object had to be made unreal for the fantasy to continue. Thus JonBenet became an angel at the hand of her mother.

  12. #60

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    Well, that might be the best explanation yet.



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