Fingerprints and denials

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Amber, Oct 9, 2006.

  1. Amber

    Amber Member

    One of the things that should make any sensible person suspicious in this case is the lack of fingerprints, from the Ramsey's:

    Both JR's and PR's should be on the Ransom note, but are not.
    JR's should be on the duct tape if he ripped it off as he said, but they're not.
    PR's should be on the paintbrush, but they're not. (even if you wash them after painting, you are going to put prints on them putting them back in the box surely?)




    The other thing that bothers me is the denial of ownership of things found in the house:

    The pineapple
    The spoon
    The teabag
    The flashlight
    The teddy bear
    The kitchen knife
    The hi techs
    The rope under JAR's bed

    Have I missed anything?

    More denial:

    John saw the film Ransom on a plane but had the sound off.

    John had a stun gun video but it was in Spanish which he didn't speak. Why the hell does he have it then? Can you prove someone doesn't speak a language? Do you ask him a question in Spanish and if says 'sorry, I haven't a clue what you said', that's proof he can't speak the lingo?

    John is an experienced sailor, but denies any knowledge of knots that most boy scouts can do in their sleep?
     
  2. tylin

    tylin Banned

    Amber,
    Good points and questions. My opinion on a few things you mentioned:

    The only way IMO, that the Ram's prints were not all over the 3 page ransom note is because they wore gloves while writing it and while handling it. (Actually Patsy's print/partical print were found on the note.)

    The duct tape should have had at least 2 sets of prints on it. John's because he removed it and Fleet's because he went downstairs to retrieve it. Remember the duct tape over JBR's mouth was all part of the staging process.

    The Ram's lied about just about everything found at the crimescene.
    I've always wondered why Patsy lied about the pineapple. Why lie about it when HER prints were found on the bowl? Why lie about it when pineapple was found in JBR's digestive tract?

    And the shoes---Patsy at first lied about the Hy-techs but later admitted that Burke 'may' have had a pair. If I correctly recall, Burke admitted to LE that he had a pair of the shoes.
     
  3. Amber

    Amber Member

    The pineapple is one of the most important parts of the case.

    She can explain her prints being on the bowl. But if she admits the Pineapple was in the house, she then has to explain how Jonbenet ate it when she was put to bed straight from the car asleep. The Ramsey's seem to go out of their way to stress she was put straight to bed asleep...why couldn't they just say 'perhaps she got up in the middle of the night and helped herself'? They stress the straight to bed thing I think because she never went to bed, and whatever happened, happened as soon as they got home.

    The rate of digestion can help with the time of death so they need to expalin that by saying that the intruder not only fed her pineapple but brought the fruit himself and the spoon.
     
  4. Barbara

    Barbara FFJ Senior Member

    Excellent points and post Amber!

    I, from the very beginning, before getting "into" the case, for lack of a better word, suspected the Ramseys for most of the points you have made. After becoming pretty knowledgeable on the case, I became absolutely positive the Ramseys are responsible for JBR's murder.

    The very first thing that struck me was the LACK OF evidence that just about any "intruder" would have left, especially after being in the house for so many hours if you listen to the RST theorize about the case.

    Despite the ruined crime scene, if an intruder had been in that house, exploring, for the time that the RST would like us to believe, practicing the note, getting the lay of the house, stungunning JBR, feeding her pineapple, sexually abusing her, dragging her to the basement, garroting her, beating her over the head, wiping her down, redressing her, blah, blah, blah, I don't care how many people were in the house that morning, SOMETHING would have been left to identify an intruder. There wasn't. IMO, the DNA is just a red herring as well as the stun gun nonsense.

    The fact that NO RAMSEY fingerprints were on or in the flashlight, or anything else related to the crime scene (with the exception of the pineapple bowl, spoon, etc., which the Ramseys never considered during the staging) put up a slew of red flags immediately.

    Then there are the never ending lies and lack of memory regarding just about everything they were asked about during their interviews.

    Now, the part that for me, is screaming guilt:

    If you listen to Patsy and John, nothing is normal about their family. They deny, as well as their supporters, that there was ANY trouble in their life. They were perfect pillars of the community, with no family problems or troubles. They didn't even acknowledge NORMAL fights, problems, tempers, etc.

    I have never known any family with more than one child whose children from time to time, didn't "KILL" eachother. If you listen to Patsy, Burke and JonBenet just had the bestest, bestest, sibling relationship and never admit that there were normal kid fights. The golf club thing was something that got out and was played down.

    They have never stated that Burke lost his temper from time to time with JBR and never admitted that he ever hit her or was mean to her, or vice versa.

    HAS ANY NINE YEAR OLD BOY WITH A LITTLE SISTER, NEVER, EVER gotten mad and gotten physical??? Have any of you known siblings who never had to be physically stopped from fighting? Of course I'm not talking weapons and real vicious abuse, just normal beating eachother up.

    The Ramseys never admit to being a "normal" family, with "normal" children who got into "normal" kid fights

    It hit home even harder when the Danielle VanDam case was in the news. Here was a little girl who had siblings. BEFORE Westerfield was known, the parents were concerned about the siblings, who were feeling "guilt" for all the times they were mean to her or mad at her, etc. LIKE NORMAL KIDS. Those little boys were devastated when their sister was murdered and here you have Burke, who by all accounts adored his sister EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY, being totally indifferent to her murder, and seemingly, even to this day.

    When there is nothing to fear, there is no reason to lie.

    Their statements of perfection in their family with the refusal to own any normal family/sibling "negatives" was very telling for me. My gut reaction was to interpret WHY they wouldn't acknowledge these normal things.

    Everybody looks at certain aspects of the case with different personal gut interpretations, and along with all the real forensic and scientific evidence backing it up, the behavior and statments of the family and supporters left me even more positive of their involvement.

    For me, I always look for the things that AREN'T there. I find those things as useful, sometimes more useful than the things that ARE there. :sleuth:
     
  5. Deja Nu

    Deja Nu Banned

    "One of the things that should make any sensible person suspicious in this case is the lack of fingerprints, from the Ramsey's:

    Both JR's and PR's should be on the Ransom note, but are not."

    Here's something else to ponder on this particular piece of evidence, Amber. Officer French, the first BPD responder after Patsy's hysterical 911 call, also picked up that ransom note. His fingerprints are not on it either.

    One defense argument that can be made is that fingerprints are not always left on a piece of paper. In order for prints to be left, the skin on the hands must contain sufficient natural or artificial oils or other surface debris to enable prints. If hands are freshly washed and clean, they may not leave prints. Cold, dry hands will also not leave prints and certainly anyone in Boulder at Christmastime would have cold, dry hands. You will recall too that JR was specifically careful to testify to BPD that he did not touch the note, merely bent over it in dim light to read it with his glasses on.

    "JR's should be on the duct tape if he ripped it off as he said, but they're not.
    PR's should be on the paintbrush, but they're not. (even if you wash them after painting, you are going to put prints on them putting them back in the box surely?)"

    You are correct here if prints could possibly be left on the tape. But we do not know whether any forensic testing on the tape revealed any prints, or at least, I've never seen any official report stating that the tape was clean.

    "The other thing that bothers me is the denial of ownership of things found in the house:

    The pineapple
    The spoon
    The teabag
    The flashlight
    The teddy bear
    The kitchen knife
    The hi techs
    The rope under JAR's bed

    Have I missed anything?

    More denial:

    John saw the film Ransom on a plane but had the sound off.

    John had a stun gun video but it was in Spanish which he didn't speak. Why the hell does he have it then? Can you prove someone doesn't speak a language? Do you ask him a question in Spanish and if says 'sorry, I haven't a clue what you said', that's proof he can't speak the lingo?"

    Here is something else to ponder about a possible Ramsey possession of any stun gun. Taser and other Southwestern manufacturers of goods usually package them with instructions in at least two different languages because they service a wide consumer market. It would not be unusual for a set of Spanish and English instructions to be in a stun gun packaging. Same with marketing literature. What is peculiar here is that no English instructions/literature was found, only Spanish. To a trained observer, that is highly suspicious and would indicate discard of everything about the stun gun BUT the Spanish instructions, probably overlooked in a rush to eliminate evidence.

    "John is an experienced sailor, but denies any knowledge of knots that most boy scouts can do in their sleep?"

    As to all the profound and illogical denials/self-impeachment done by the Ramseys, here is something to ponder. Standard defense strategy, long known, is to deny everything, admit nothing and demand proof of any allegations. That is certainly the strategy that the Ramseys and ALL their lawyers have blatantly followed, while shifting the focus/spotlight off the Ramseys and onto Smit's intruder theory since 2000. But the points you make in this post, Amber, are all useful in any prosecutorial effort to impeach the Ramseys on the witness stand. My educated and experienced guess is that if any prosecution were to ever take place, no way would their attorneys put them on the stand for just this reason. If armchair detectives can so easily impeach their testimony, just think what a real prosecutor (not Lacy) could do!
     
  6. heymom

    heymom Member

    Did Fleet White actually touch the tape? I thought he went back down to the basement to look at it, but I didn't remember that he actually picked it up. I thought he had more respect for the crime scene than JR did.

    Heymom
     
  7. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    Sure, a killer breaks in, feeds his victim, then waits two hours for it to digest?

    I don't buy it.
     
  8. Spade

    Spade Member

    Absolutely right.
     
  9. tylin

    tylin Banned

    Heymom,
    I'll have to double check on that but I will let you know as soon as I find out. ;)
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice