Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by Amber, Oct 31, 2006.

  1. Amber

    Amber Member

    Carrying on from the Forensic Evidence thread where the discussion turned to whether either of the Ramsey's may have had a personality disorder. I am posting information on NPD so that we can see if any of the traits fit.

    Proposed Amended Criteria for the Narcissistic Personality Disorder

    Feels grandiose and self-important (e.g., exaggerates accomplishments, talents, skills, contacts, and personality traits to the point of lying, demands to be recognised as superior without commensurate achievements);

    Is obsessed with fantasies of unlimited success, fame, fearsome power or omnipotence, unequalled brilliance (the cerebral narcissist), bodily beauty or sexual performance (the somatic narcissist), or ideal, everlasting, all-conquering love or passion;

    Firmly convinced that he or she is unique and, being special, can only be understood by, should only be treated by, or associate with, other special or unique, or high-status people (or institutions);

    Requires excessive admiration, adulation, attention and affirmation – or, failing that, wishes to be feared and to be notorious (Narcissistic Supply);

    Feels entitled. Demands automatic and full compliance with his or her unreasonable expectations for special and favourable priority treatment;

    Is "interpersonally exploitative", i.e., uses others to achieve his or her own ends;

    Devoid of empathy. Is unable or unwilling to identify with, acknowledge, or accept the feelings, needs, preferences, priorities, and choices of others;

    Constantly envious of others and seeks to hurt or destroy the objects of his or her frustration. Suffers from persecutory (paranoid) delusions as he or she believes that they feel the same about him or her and are likely to act similarly;

    Behaves arrogantly and haughtily. Feels superior, omnipotent, omniscient, invincible, immune, "above the law", and omnipresent (magical thinking).

    Rages when frustrated, contradicted, or confronted by people he or she considers inferior to him or her and unworthy.

    http://samvak.tripod.com/npdglance.html

     
  2. Amber

    Amber Member

    http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html#npd

    Grandiosity is the hallmark of narcissism. So what is grandiose?

    The simplest everyday way that narcissists show their exaggerated sense of self-importance is by talking about family, work, life in general as if there is nobody else in the picture.

    Whatever they may be doing, in their own view, they are the star, and they give the impression that they are bearing heroic responsibility for their family or department or company, that they have to take care of everything because their spouses or co-workers are undependable, uncooperative, or otherwise unfit.

    They ignore or denigrate the abilities and contributions of others and complain that they receive no help at all; they may inspire your sympathy or admiration for their stoicism in the face of hardship or unstinting self-sacrifice for the good of (undeserving) others. But this everyday grandiosity is an aspect of narcissism that you may never catch on to unless you visit the narcissist's home or workplace and see for yourself that others are involved and are pulling their share of the load and, more often than not, are also pulling the narcissist's share as well.

    An example is the older woman who told me with a sigh that she knew she hadn't been a perfect mother but she just never had any help at all -- and she said this despite knowing that I knew that she had worn out and discarded two devoted husbands and had lived in her parents' pocket (and pocketbook) as long as they lived, quickly blowing her substantial inheritance on flaky business schemes. Another example is claiming unusual benefits or spectacular results from ordinary effort and investment, giving the impression that somehow the narcissist's time and money are worth more than other people's
     
  3. heymom

    heymom Member

    Hmmmmm...sounds like somebody I was just talking about! Thanks for posting this information.
     
  4. Amber

    Amber Member

    When I read this next piece I couldn't help but think of the Prime of Miss Jean Brodie, Jackie Kennedy and Jonbenet:

    As Freud said of narcissists, these people act like they're in love with themselves. And they are in love with an ideal image of themselves -- or they want you to be in love with their pretend self, it's hard to tell just what's going on.

    Like anyone in love, their attention and energy are drawn to the beloved and away from everyday practicalities. Narcissists' fantasies are static -- they've fallen in love with an image in a mirror or, more accurately, in a pool of water, so that movement causes the image to dissolve into ripples; to see the adored reflection they must remain perfectly still. Narcissists' fantasies are tableaux or scenes, stage sets; narcissists are hung up on a particular picture that they think reflects their true selves (as opposed to the real self -- warts and all).

    Narcissists don't see themselves doing anything except being adored, and they don't see anyone else doing anything except adoring them. Moreover, they don't see these images as potentials that they may some day be able to live out, if they get lucky or everything goes right: they see these pictures as the real way they want to be seen right now (which is not the same as saying they think these pictures are the way they really are right now, but that is another story to be discussed elsewhere).

    Sometimes narcissistic fantasies are spectacularly grandiose -- imagining themselves as Jesus or a saint or hero or deity depicted in art -- but just as often the fantasies of narcissists are mediocre and vulgar, concocted from illustrations in popular magazines, sensational novels, comic books even. These artificial self fantasies are also static in time, going back unchanged to early adolescence or even to childhood; the narcissists' self-images don't change with time, so that you will find, for instance, female narcissists clinging to retro styles, still living the picture of the perfect woman of 1945 or 1965 as depicted in The Ladies' Home Journal or Seventeen or Vogue of that era, and male narcissists still hung up on images of comic-book or ripping adventure heroes from their youth. Though narcissists like pictures rather than stories, they like still pictures, not moving ones, so they don't base their fantasies on movies or TV.

    Grandiosity can take various forms -- a narcissistic woman may believe herself to be the very model of perfect womanhood, the standard by which all others are measured, and she will try to force her daughters to be just like her, she will not be able to cope with daughters who are taller or shorter than she is, fatter or thinner, who have bigger or smaller feet, breasts, teeth, who have different favorite colors than hers, etc. Naissistic men can be infatuated with their own looks, too, (witness John Cheever, for instance; Almost Perfect) but are more likely than women to get hung up on their intelligence or the importance of their work -- doesn't matter what the work is, if he's doing it, by definition it's more important than anything you could possibly do.

    Narcissists I've known also have odd religious ideas, in particular believing that they are God's special favorites somehow; God loves them, so they are exempted from ordinary rules and obligations: God loves them and wants them to be the way they are, so they can do anything they feel like -- though

    note, the narcissist's God has much harsher rules for everyone else, including you. [Many readers have questions about narcissism and religion. Here is an interesting article on the Web: "Narcissism Goes to Church: Encountering Evangelical Worship" by Monte Wilson. "Modern American Christianity is filled with the spirit of narcissism. We are in love with ourselves and evaluate churches, ministers and truth-claims based upon how they make us feel about ourselves. If the church makes me feel wanted, it is a good church. If the minister makes me feel good about myself, he is a terrific guy. If the proffered truth supports my self-esteem, it is, thereby, verified."
     
  5. Amber

    Amber Member

    Research shows that most narcissists are born into dysfunctional families. Such families are characterised by massive denials, both internal ("you do not have a real problem, you are only pretending") and external ("you must never tell the secrets of the family to anyone"). Abuse in all forms is not uncommon in such families. These families may encourage excellence, but only as means to a narcissistic end. The parents are usually themselves needy, emotionally immature, and narcissistic and thus unable to recognize or respect the child's emerging boundaries and emotional needs. This often leads to defective or partial socialisation and to problems with sexual identity.

     
  6. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    I think Nedra was the narcissist. Patsy and Pam were the most affected by their mother's intrusions. The result in Patsy was an identity disorder. Patsy's narcissism was due to an absorption of Nedra's personality. Patsy was an overachiever due to a lack of an ability to assess herself. She married an older man with a life history, she was his trophy, she was his apendage. Her very late in life attempt to assert herself was very destructive and she attempted to pass off responsibilty to John with the famous "it's up to you" line in the rn. This isn't typical pathological narcissism. Patsy's me, me, me behavior was a compensation due to a lack of development and a nagging feeling of emptiness.
     
  7. Cranberry

    Cranberry Member

    Yes, IMO, PR had several identities, perhaps at different stages in her life.
     
  8. Paradox

    Paradox Banned for Stupidity by RiverRat

    The story of The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie is about a narcissist (Brodie) and one of her pawns (Sandy) who attempts to break away from the narcissist's influence. This, I think, reflects Patsy's relationship with her mother and Patsy's unfulfilled need to mature and find and develop her own identity. It was this unfulfilled life that she tried to work out through the use of JonBenet.
     
  9. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Amber, I've said for many years that Patsy had NPD. She was a narcissist of the 1st degree. I think John is also a narcissist. Patsy felt entitled, John feels superior. Patsy wanted adulation and praise, John is arrogant.

    The puffed-out capital "P" in Patsy's signature is just one of the graphological testaments to her "puffed-out" ideation of self. Patsy's sense of importance was a bloated fantasy based on an inferior and underdeveloped identity.

    To put it another way, Patsy was all hat and no cowgirl. She was all show. There was nothing beneath the veneer but an empty self. Her handwriting says she was afraid for people to get to know the real Patsy ... that she didn't really get close to people ... that she was afraid of true intimacy. Patsy feared emotional intimacy because she was terrified someone would discover the real Patsy underneath the well-coiffed facade'.

    I think that's one of the reasons that making JonBenet her perfect alter self was so important to Patsy. She was crafting what she thought was the perfect identity for herself through her daughter. Patsy's psychological needs also benefited from JonBenet's death in that it gave Patsy the identity of a grieving mother and victim.

    John's handwriting shows a man of immense pride and arrogance who has little, or no empathy, for others. John carries with him a lot of anger that is just boiling beneath the surface. John is also a user. If he think he can use you in some way, or that knowing you will be an advantage to him, he will initially be nice to you and try the "hail-fellow-well-met" routine. However, if John thinks you are of no use to him, or that you might stand in the way of what he wants, he will either ignore you or treat you with contempt.

    No wonder John and Patsy eventually had what was described as a cold, loveless marriage of convenience. They were each focused on themselves, not on each other. Two narcissists, in one marriage, can never make a whole.
     
  10. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    We were basically posting the same thing at the same time. It just took me longer to get it written. :)
     
  11. Cherokee

    Cherokee FFJ Senior Member

    Like I said ... same idea, different words.
     
  12. Amber

    Amber Member

    I'd agree...

    Narcissism does tend to breed Narcissism - but not inevitably. Not all the off-spring of a narcissist inexorably become narcissists.

    The Narcissistic parent regards his or her child as a multi-faceted source of Narcissistic Supply. The child is considered and treated as an extension of the narcissist's personality. It is through the child that the narcissist seeks to settle "open scores" with the world. The child is supposed to realize the unfulfilled grandiose dreams and fantasies of the narcissistic parent.

    This "Life by Proxy" can develop in two possible ways: the narcissist can either merge with his child or be ambivalent towards him. The ambivalence is the result of a conflict within the narcissist between his wish to attain his narcissistic goals through the child and his pathological (destructive) envy of the child and his accomplishments.



    To ameliorate the unease bred by such emotional ambivalence, the narcissist resorts to micromanaging the child's life through a myriad of control mechanisms. These can be grouped into: guilt-driven ("I sacrificed my life for you…"), dependence-driven ("I need you, I cannot cope without you…"), goal-driven ("We have a common goal which we must achieve") and explicit ("If you do not adhere to my principles, beliefs, ideology, religion or any other set of values, or if you don't obey my instructions – I will impose sanctions on you").

    The exercise of control helps to sustain the illusion that the child is a part of the narcissist. Such sustenance calls for extraordinary levels of control (on the part of the parent) and obedience (on the part of the child). The relationship is typically symbiotic and emotionally vicissitudinal and turbulent.

    The child fulfils another important narcissistic function – that of Narcissistic Supply. There is no denying the implied (though imaginary) immortality in having a child. The early (natural) dependence of the child serves to assuage the fear of abandonment, which is an important driving force in the narcissist's life. The narcissist tries to perpetuate this dependence, using the aforementioned control mechanisms.

    The child is the ultimate Secondary Source of Narcissistic Supply. He is always around, he admires the narcissist, he accumulates and remembers the narcissist's moments of "glory", and owing to his wish to be loved he can be extorted into forever giving without ever receiving.

    For the narcissist, a child is a dream come true, but only in the most egotistical sense. When the child is perceived as "reneging" on his chief duty (to provide his narcissistic parent with constant supply of adoration) – the emotional reaction is harsh and revealing.

    It is when the narcissistic parent is disenchanted with his child that we see the true nature of this pathological relationship. The child is totally objectified. The narcissist reacts to a breach in the unwritten contract with wells of aggression and aggressive transformations: contempt, rage, emotional and psychological abuse, and even physical violence. He tries to annihilate the real child (brought to the narcissist's awareness through the child's refusal to act as before) and substitute it with the subservient, edifying, former version.
     
  13. Cranberry

    Cranberry Member

    I've only read the first chapter of TPOMJB so far, with it's first lesson under the elms, a quote from Proverbs 31:10, hats, bikes, silence is golden and an artist with a turban on his head. In the beginning, like a bible.
     
  14. Amber

    Amber Member


    I think you are right and I can't believe I didn't see it before, but it makes complete sense of everything that went on up to, during and after the murder.

    NPD's have a unique way of viewing and operating in the world..and I think, having seen first hand how my friend's partner acted over that three year period, that all the 'why did they react like they did after the murder' questions are answered by NPD.

    And you are right...they both got more narcissistic supply after the murder...she must have got a shock when the press didn't reflect back the grieving victim...
     
  15. heymom

    heymom Member

    Yes, there is a lot going on underneath John's bland exterior. I wish he had been indicted, he'd have exploded and shown that true self. Anyone who can coldly point law enforcement toward people who thought themselves to be friends, when it could mean being charged with his own daughter's murder, is by definition a person with sociopathic tendencies, to be generous.

    This is a bad evil man.

    Heymom
     
  16. Amber

    Amber Member

    Just tell me to stop if this info gets too much;)

    I just found this and I think it could almost be written about PR...it's really interesting as regards the 'playing doctor' thing :eek:

    "Now We Are Six"
    [Apologies to A. A. Milne.]

    If you had a narcissist for a parent, you lived in a world governed by whim enforced without mercy.

    Narcissists have normal, even superior, intellectual development while remaining emotionally and morally immature. Dealing with them can give you the sense of trying to have a reasonable discussion with a very clever six-year-old -- this is an age when normal children are grandiose and exhibitionistic, when they are very resistant to taking the blame for their own misbehavior, when they understand what the rules are (e.g., that lying, cheating, and stealing are prohibited) but are still trying to wriggle out of accepting those rules for themselves. This is the year, by the way, when children were traditionally thought to reach the age of reason and when first communions (and first confessions) were made.

    Having a narcissist for a mother is a lot like living under the supervision of a six-year-old. Narcissists are always pretending, and with a narcissistic mother it's a lot like, "Let's play house. I'll pretend to be the mother and you pretend to be the baby," though, as the baby, you'll be expected to act like a doll (keep smiling, no matter what) and you'll be treated like a doll -- as an inanimate object, as a toy to be manipulated, dressed and undressed, walked around and have words put in your mouth; something that can be broken but not hurt, something that will be dropped and forgotten when when something more interesting comes along.

    With narcissists, there's also usually a fair element of "playing doctor," as well -- of childish sexual curiosity that may find expression in "seductive" behavior towards the child, such as inappropriate touching of the genitals, or it can also come out as "hypochondriacal" worries about the child's health and/or being most interested and attentive when the child is ill (thus teaching the child that the way to get Mother's kind attention is to get sick). Having a sick child can also be a way for the narcissistic mother to get the sympathetic attention of authority figures, such as doctors and teachers.

    http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/six.html

    Oh My God!!!
     
  17. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    This is a brilliant thread, Amber. Cherokee and Paradox, as well. Just excellent discussion. Do continue.
     
  18. tylin

    tylin Banned

    Great thread! :thumbsup:
    Maybe the Ram's should have given each other this test. ;)



    Is Your Partner a Narcissist?
    From Loving the Self Absorbed by Dr. Nina Brown
    Take this quiz and find out. Based on your knowledge of your partner, answer each of the following using this scale:

    5-Always or almost always does this
    4-Frequently does this
    3-Does this sometimes
    2-Seldom does this
    1-Never of almost never does this

    Quiz:
    1. Constantly looks to you to meet their needs
    2. Expects you to know what he/she expects, desires, and needs without having to ask for it
    3. Gets upset when you are perceived to be critical or blaming
    4. Expects you to put his/her needs before your own
    5. Seeks attention in indirect ways
    6. Expects you to openly admire him/her
    7. Acts childish, e.g., sulks or pouts
    8. Accuses you of being insensitive or uncaring without cause or notice
    9. Finds fault with your friends
    10. Becomes angry when challenged or confronted
    11. Does not seem to recognize your feelings
    12. Uses your disclosures to criticize, blame, or discount you
    13. Is controlling
    14. Lies, distorts, and misleads
    15. Is competitive and uses any means to get what is wanted
    16. Has a superior attitude
    17. Is contemptuous of you and others
    18. Is arrogant
    19. Is envious of others
    20. Demeans and devalues you
    21. Is self-centered and self absorbed
    22. Has to be the center of attention
    23. Manipulates others to win attention
    24. Is impulsive and reckless
    25. Boasts and brags
    26. Is insensitive to your needs
    27. Makes fun of others’ mistakes or faults
    28. Engages in seductive behavior
    29. Is vengeful
    30. Expects favors, but does not return them

    Total:
    126-150-It’s likely that your partner is a narcissist
    102-125-Your partner has many narcissistic characteristics
    78-101-Your partner has some troubling narcissistic traits
    54-77-Your partner has few destructive narcissistic traits
    30-53-It’s unlikely that your partner is a narcissist.
     
  19. tylin

    tylin Banned

    After reading this thread and other related material, I'm thinking both John and Patsy were narcissist. Did either of them live in the 'real' world?
     
  20. Amber

    Amber Member

    If you were wondering if two narcissists could live together (from Sam Vankin's site):

    Can two narcissists establish a long-term, stable relationship?

    Answer:

    Two narcissists of the same type (somatic, cerebral, classic, compensatory, inverted, etc.) cannot maintain a stable, long-term full-fledged, and functional relationship.

    There are two types of narcissists: the somatic narcissist and the cerebral narcissist. The somatic type relies on his body and sexuality as Sources of Narcissistic Supply. The cerebral narcissist uses his intellect, his intelligence and his professional achievements to obtain the same.

    sounds like PR and JR respectively.

    Narcissists are either predominantly cerebral or overwhelmingly somatic. In other words, they either generate their Narcissistic Supply by using their bodies or by flaunting their minds.

    The somatic narcissist flashes his sexual conquests, parades his possessions, puts his muscles on ostentatious display, brags about his physical aesthetics or sexual prowess or exploits, is often a health freak and a hypochondriac.

    The cerebral narcissist is a know-it-all, haughty and intelligent "computer". He uses his awesome intellect, or knowledge (real or pretended) to secure adoration, adulation and admiration. To him, his body and its maintenance are a burden and a distraction.

    Both types are autoerotic (psychosexually in love with themselves, with their bodies or with their brains). Both types prefer masturbation to adult, mature, interactive, multi-dimensional and emotion-laden sex.

    The cerebral narcissist is often celibate (even when he has a girlfriend or a spouse). He prefers pornography and sexual auto-stimulation to the real thing. The cerebral narcissist is sometimes a latent (hidden, not yet outed) homosexual.

    The somatic narcissist uses other people's bodies to masturbate. Sex with him – pyrotechnics and acrobatics aside – is likely to be an impersonal and emotionally alienating and draining experience. The partner is often treated as an object, an extension of the somatic narcissist, a toy, a warm and pulsating vibrator.

    It is a mistake to assume type-constancy. In other words, all narcissists are both cerebral and somatic. In each narcissist, one of the types is dominant. So, the narcissist is either largely cerebral – or dominantly somatic. But the other, recessive (manifested less frequently) type, is there. It is lurking, waiting to erupt. The narcissist swings between his dominant type and his recessive type which manifests mainly after a major narcissistic injury or life crisis.

    The cerebral narcissist brandishes his brainpower, exhibits his intellectual achievements, basks in the attention given to his mind and to its products. He hates his body and neglects it. It is a nuisance, a burden, a derided appendix, an inconvenience, a punishment. The cerebral narcissist is asexual (rarely has sex, often years apart). He masturbates regularly and very mechanically. His fantasies are homosexual or paedophiliac or tend to objectify his partner (rape, group sex). He stays away from women because he perceives them to be ruthless predators who are out to consume him.

    The cerebral narcissist typically goes through a few major life crises. He gets divorced, goes bankrupt, does time in prison, is threatened, harassed and stalked, is often devalued, betrayed, denigrated and insulted. He is prone to all manner of chronic illnesses.

    Invariably, following every life crisis, the somatic narcissist in him takes over. The cerebral narcissist suddenly becomes a lascivious lecher. When this happens, he maintains a few relationships – replete with abundant and addictive sex – going simultaneously. He sometimes participates in and initiates group sex and mass orgies. He exercises, loses weight and hones his body into an irresistible proposition.

    This outburst of unrestrained, primordial lust wanes in a few months and he settles back into his cerebral ways. No sex, no women, no body.

    These total reversals of character stun his mates. His girlfriend or spouse finds it impossible to digest this eerie transformation from the gregarious, darkly handsome, well-built and sexually insatiable person that swept her off her feet – to the bodiless, bookwormish hermit with not an inkling of interest in either sex or other carnal pleasures.

    The cerebral narcissist misses his somatic half, but finding a balance is a doomed quest. The satyre that is the somatic narcissist is forever trapped in the intellectual cage of the cerebral one, the Brain.

    Thus, if both members of the couple are cerebral narcissists, for instance if both of them are scholars – the resulting competition prevents them from serving as ample Sources of Narcissistic Supply to each other. Finally the mutual admiration society crumbles.

    Consumed by the pursuit of their own narcissistic gratification, they have no time or energy or will left to cater to the narcissistic needs of their partner. Moreover, the partner is perceived as a dangerous and vicious contender for a scarce resource: Sources of Narcissistic Supply. This may be less true if the two narcissists work in totally unrelated academic or intellectual fields.

    But if the narcissists involved are of different types, if one of them is cerebral and the other one somatic, a long-term partnership based on the mutual provision of Narcissistic Supply can definitely survive.

    Example: if one of the narcissists is somatic (uses his/her body as a source of narcissistic gratification) and the other one cerebral (uses his intellect or his professional achievements as such a source), there is nothing to destabilise such collaboration. It is even potentially emotionally rewarding.

    The relationship between these two narcissists resembles the one that exists between an artist and his art or or a collector and his collection. This can and does change, of course, as the narcissists involved grow older, flabbier and less agile intellectually. The somatic narcissist is also prone to multiple sexual relationships and encounters intended to support his somatic and sexual self-image. These may subject the relationship to fracturing strains. But, all in all, a stable and enduring relationship can – and often does – develop between dissimilar narcissists.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice