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  1. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    Thanks Tylin for the info.

    The word "bathrobes" made me jump. Weren't there blue cotton fibers found on JonBenet's genitals might have come from a washcloth? It's in the Bonita papers. The material of a terrycloth bathrobe would be very similar to a washcloth.
    Yes it would.

    A bathrobe was on the floor in the "den". Where is the den. Is it on the first floor of the house, as most dens are. You know off the livingroom?

  2. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by sboyd
    Yes it would.

    A bathrobe was on the floor in the "den". Where is the den. Is it on the first floor of the house, as most dens are. You know off the livingroom?
    Actually in this case, wasn't the room upstairs in the Master/Bath/Bedroom sitting room area called the Den?
    It's probably too late to get justice for JonBenét. Maybe it always was. But knowing where things went wrong is the first step to not going there again. **-- Alan Prendergast-Dec 21, 2006--**

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  3. #99
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    Default yes

    We discussed this before and Cookie confirmed that the study, in this instance, was upstairs in the master suite.

  4. #100

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    I'm looking for Lou Smit's interview with the Ramseys. Is it on the ACandyRose site?

  5. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    I'm looking for Lou Smit's interview with the Ramseys. Is it on the ACandyRose site?
    Yes. Only Smit didn't interview Patsy, at least, not that we know of, and not on the record. He interviewed John. A Detective Haney, whom Hunter brought in to do the job, interviewed Patsy in '98.

    Here's a portion of that interview I found some time after our discussion of John's bathrobe. She indeed does speak of John's "study" being upstairs:

    20 TRIP DeMUTH: 48, what is that?

    21 PATSY RAMSEY: That's John's study,

    22 back --

    23 TRIP DeMUTH: To the right?

    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Where you turn

    25 right, uh-hum.

    0303

    1 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you know what this

    2 is? It's hard to see, in the back lower corner?

    3 Does that look like his bathrobe?

    4 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. Looks

    5 like a sweater or something.

    6 TRIP DeMUTH: Would it be unusual

    7 for John to put his bathrobe down on the floor

    8 in that area?

    9 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. Because he

    10 usually hangs it up in his bathroom. Unless,

    11 you know, he was starting to put it on when I

    12 screamed for him and he dropped it or something.

    13 TRIP DeMUTH: What are we on, 49?

    14 What is that, Patsy?

    15 PATSY RAMSEY: This is my closet.

    So you can see they were going over pictures of the Ramsey suite upstairs.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  6. #102
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    Default yea

    When your wife screams, should you throw the bathrobe you are about to cover your tighty whities with and go running OR should you run and put your arms through the robe as you go in case you must go out the door for some reason. Mr. Texan would try to pull some pants on and then run. But my eyes remain naked.

  7. #103

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    Dr. Lee, Cracking More Cases, p. 209:

    "The note was not enough, Alex Hunter knew, for an arrest. Even with a positive identification, this only went toward proof of Patsy Rasey as an accessory after the fact to the crime, and, under Colorado laws, an accessory could not be arrested unlesss the principal of the crime had already been charged."
    So even if Patsy Ramsey had been identified with 100 per cent certainty as the writer of the note, the person covering up for a crime by writing a bogus kidnapping note needn't automatically have been the killer too if there are other suspects to consider also, which was the case here.
    So theoretically, John could have killed JonBenet and Patsy have covered up for him. But if there was not enough evidence to link John to the homicide itself, he could not be charged and the person covering up for him could not have been arrested either, at least that's what it says in Dr. Lee's book.

    On the other hand, the top lawyers hired by the BPD all said the Ramseys should be arrested. What would have legally justified an arrest in such a case, considering the Colorado laws?

    jmo

  8. #104
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    You know, in most of the PR interviews I've read, there are a lot of times when she is being "fed" an answer- like in this one with Trip asking her "does that look like a bathrobe?" Let HER say what it is, don't put the word in her mouth. Especially if LE knew from taking the photos that it actually was a bathrobe. If PR knew that it was a bathrobe and that bathrobe was worn by JR as he helped stage the murder and fibers that could have been from that bathrobe were found on the body- of course she will say "that looks like a sweater".
    It's stuff like this, as well as the fact that there were SO many times when LE dropped the ball when questioning the Rs, that we are where were today- with no one accountable after 11 years.
    I suppose it's too much to have actually TESTED that bathrobe to see of the fibers are a match. I recall the robe was dark blue terry. I also recall that there were dark blue cotton fibers found on the body.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  9. #105

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    DeeDee, you're absolutely right. Those LE interviews in '98 are MADDENIING to watch on video, or even read, as REPEATEDLY Haney asks a question, provides the answer, or just keeps INTERRUPTING PATSY as she TRIES to answer!! Either he's a DOLT like Smit, or he was aware of what he was doing, pre-planned, questions provided beforehand, etc. Remember, the Ramsey lawyers originally asked for questions to the Ramseys be put in writing and that's how they answered them in the first months after the murder.

    What a SCREWED UP way to investigate a murder case. And that was all on Hunter's watch. He is the one I believe was working with the Ramsey team to destroy this case. Whether that came from Lockheed Martin's power and influence--remember LM has many operations in Colorado employing a lot of people--or from being fellow toads with Haddon's law firm, I don't know. But the BDA lawyers destroyed this case within weeks, IMO, and have continued that path ever since. They'll never go back now, because they'd expose too many illegal activities in their own office, IMO.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  10. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by rashomon
    Dr. Lee, Cracking More Cases, p. 209:


    So even if Patsy Ramsey had been identified with 100 per cent certainty as the writer of the note, the person covering up for a crime by writing a bogus kidnapping note needn't automatically have been the killer too if there are other suspects to consider also, which was the case here.
    So theoretically, John could have killed JonBenet and Patsy have covered up for him. But if there was not enough evidence to link John to the homicide itself, he could not be charged and the person covering up for him could not have been arrested either, at least that's what it says in Dr. Lee's book.

    On the other hand, the top lawyers hired by the BPD all said the Ramseys should be arrested. What would have legally justified an arrest in such a case, considering the Colorado laws?

    jmo
    Rashomon, the evidence must reach the level of "probable cause" for an arrest warrant. That standard is not as high as "beyond a reasonable doubt", needed for a conviction, as you know.

    There certainly was enough evidence to reach the "probable cause" standard. But after Hunter finished sandbagging warrants and handing out evidentiary reports to the Ramseys' law team, he well knew he'd never make the case in a trial. That's exactly what he was after, IMO. It worked.

    But the purpose of arresting on probable cause is to get the suspects into an interrogation room and on the record. Since that didn't happen for four months, it should have been done at the very LEAST after the funeral when the Ramseys still refused to come in for questioning, since THEY CERTAINLY GOT THEMSELVES TO A TV STUDIO FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS OF QUESTIONS THE DAY AFTER THEY BURIED JONBENET!

    Of course the Ramseys would never have answered a question, and their lawyers would have made sure of that. But it should have been done and they should have been put on the record as refusing to answer questions. Lou Smit is on the record stating HE WOULD HAVE ARRESTED THEM IMMEDIATELY IF THEY'D REFUSED TO BE QUESTIONED AFTER THE BODY WAS FOUND. That's the most honest thing Smit has ever said about this case and the Ramseys, in fact. It should have been done. Hunter stopped it from being done. Ever.

    You see, you have to go through the tried and true procedures: there is always a chance the stress of going through the perp walk, fingerprinting, mug shot, etc., might lead to someone talking. Remember Patsy had a hard time keeping her mouth shut. If nothing shook out, the DA could always have dropped the charges. But we'll never know now.

    As you know, any person here in the same circumstances would have been handcuffed and led to the BPD pronto if we refused to cooperate with LE.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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  11. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texan
    When your wife screams, should you throw the bathrobe you are about to cover your tighty whities with and go running OR should you run and put your arms through the robe as you go in case you must go out the door for some reason. Mr. Texan would try to pull some pants on and then run. But my eyes remain naked.
    The whole neighborhood was used to seeing John in his BVD's after losing his keys!
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  12. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase
    DeeDee, you're absolutely right. Those LE interviews in '98 are MADDENIING to watch on video, or even read, as REPEATEDLY Haney asks a question, provides the answer, or just keeps INTERRUPTING PATSY as she TRIES to answer!! Either he's a DOLT like Smit, or he was aware of what he was doing, pre-planned, questions provided beforehand, etc. Remember, the Ramsey lawyers originally asked for questions to the Ramseys be put in writing and that's how they answered them in the first months after the murder.

    What a SCREWED UP way to investigate a murder case. And that was all on Hunter's watch. He is the one I believe was working with the Ramsey team to destroy this case. Whether that came from Lockheed Martin's power and influence--remember LM has many operations in Colorado employing a lot of people--or from being fellow toads with Haddon's law firm, I don't know. But the BDA lawyers destroyed this case within weeks, IMO, and have continued that path ever since. They'll never go back now, because they'd expose too many illegal activities in their own office, IMO.

    Truer words were never spoken. Isn't there ANY way to hold Hunter accountable for sabotaging this case? I also believe he was working with the RST. Especially the defense team.
    We all know Hunter should have stepped down from this case and a special prosecutor should have been appointed right at the beginning. As soon as the Haddon firm came on board as the defense team, that should have been the end of Hunter's involvement. What I want to know...is it ALLOWED for DAs that have personal/business relationships with defense lawyers to continue as a prosecutor? Because it shouldn't be.
    This is my Constitutionally protected OPINION. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.



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