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  1. #13

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    As far as I know, have ever seen, and understand it after 10 years of following this case much closer than the actual detectives who claim to have been working it all along--I use the Karr debacle as my proof of that, Alex Hunter came up with that "1 to 5" scale on LKL one night, talking off the top of his head about the expert opinions on the ransom note. I've never seen any official or unofficial documentation of any examiner using that scale on this ransom note. If anyone else has, they've never said so nor given a source for it OTHER THAN HUNTER. If you read the Epstein deposition conducted by Wood and Hoffman in the Wolf suit, you will see that EVEN LIN WOOD USES HUNTER AS THE SOURCE OF THE "1 TO 5" SCALE, and nowhere does Epstein, and UNDISPUTED HANDWRITING EXPERT, say that scale is valid nor that he or any other expert used it.

    Therefore, as you can conclude, THERE IS NO RECORD THAT ANY EXPERT HAS ACTUALLY EVER SEEN OR USED ANY SUCH SCALE. If I'm wrong, I'd LOVE to see the SOURCE AND DOCUMENTATION FOR THAT.

    http://www.jonbenetindexguide.com/05...eonEpstein.htm

    Also, you can find a lot of good reference material on Cherokee's handwriting analysis thread at the top of the JB forum page.

    Here is ACR's page of the NE handwriting samples and analysis, compliments of JAMS, of course:

    http://blabbieville.tripod.com/index.htm

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  2. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little
    If I've learned one thing in the past 10+ years following this case it's to save anything that might "disappear" later. I feel so sure that I read that Patsy's sister said someone was trying to set up Patsy when she (Patsy's sister) saw the ransom note. Of course, I didn't save the source so that is purely my recollection, which just ain't what it used to be LOL.

    Little
    I remember that too. Didn't she say it was a 'criminal mastermind'? Add to the list of something that will be found while looking for something else.

  3. #15
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    It's also entirely misleading to say that Patsy scored 4.5/.50 (and that is apart from the fact that the 5-point scale doesn't seem to exist in any official capacity). It would only be accurate to say the above IF all experts who have been cited agreed with this scoring. Since we don't know what the original source of the 4.5/5.0 is, there is no way of knowing if this was one expert's opinion... or two... or if any expert who rated her more of a match's rating was included or discarded... or if it was an average....or if it was Alex Hunter's word and not that of an expert at all!

    Without more information, it's meaningless.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  4. #16

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    Regardless of the score, Patsy cannot be ruled out. I do not believe there was anyone else who they tested which fit into this category, CANNOT BE RULED OUT.

  5. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrina
    Regardless of the score, Patsy cannot be ruled out. I do not believe there was anyone else who they tested which fit into this category, CANNOT BE RULED OUT.
    This is significant because it's not just a straightforward case of matching two sets of handwriting because there is every indication that the handwriting on the ransom note was disguised. This attempt to disguise the handwriting may have had the effect of effectively altering certain aspects of the handwriting - enough to cast reasonable doubt for experts.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  6. #18

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    We've looked at leads whose handwriting scored much, much higher than Patsy's on a comparison scale.
    Yet, it looks like the higher the score, the less likely it is for the subject to have written the note.


    -Tea

  7. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles
    This is significant because it's not just a straightforward case of matching two sets of handwriting because there is every indication that the handwriting on the ransom note was disguised. This attempt to disguise the handwriting may have had the effect of effectively altering certain aspects of the handwriting - enough to cast reasonable doubt for experts.
    Which is why, IMO, they asked Patsy to write the note with both her right hand and her left hand.

    Little

  8. #20
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    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...14/lkl.00.html

    (Pastsy's and John' statements are in this transcript too, inserted as videoclips).

    The CNN link is no longer live.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  9. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little
    Which is why, IMO, they asked Patsy to write the note with both her right hand and her left hand.

    Little
    YEP...thats exactly the reason.

  10. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles
    This is significant because it's not just a straightforward case of matching two sets of handwriting because there is every indication that the handwriting on the ransom note was disguised. This attempt to disguise the handwriting may have had the effect of effectively altering certain aspects of the handwriting - enough to cast reasonable doubt for experts.
    Well, all I have to say is that if "experts" look at the RN and Patsy's exemplars, and have "reasonable doubt," I wouldn't trust them anyway. Any damn fool can see that she wrote that note!

    (I'm not disparaging you, Jay, just sayin...)
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  11. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by icedtea4me
    Yet, it looks like the higher the score, the less likely it is for the subject to have written the note.


    -Tea
    Yeah, its confusing isn't it?? But other people scored HIGHER than Patsy. Which I believe is a truthful statement. THEY scored higher, because they DIDN'T write the note....Patsy did. IMO

  12. #24
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    Just to let you know, I forked out $30 for the ASTM standard which is used by the American Academy of Forensic Science and the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners.

    Now, according to the wiki, The American Academy of Forensic Science and the American Board of Forensic Document Examiners is the only official body for handwriting experts. We therefore know that the following experts would be aware of the standard and presumably using it:-

    Dusak
    Ubowski
    Speckin
    Alford
    Rile

    OK. Now to the Standard.

    As expected, there is a NINE-point scale (not five) :-

    1 - identification
    2 - strong probability
    3 - probable
    4 - indications (evidence to suggest)
    5 - no conclusion
    6 - indications did not
    7 - probably did not
    8 - strong probability did not
    9 - elimination

    Now - and this is the interesting bit - within each of the above categories, there is recommended technology to be used in qualifying an opinion and "falls short" (the term used by Alford and Ubowski) is recommended terminology under the category "Probable". Alford is usually depicted as someone who DIDN'T think Patsy wrote the note. This would tend to suggest otherwise.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission



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