Patsy's Medicine Drawers...

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by AMES, Jun 8, 2007.

  1. AMES

    AMES Member

    I would like to give credit to NuisancePoster, over at another board...that posed this question, on a thread that I had started about things that were out of place according to Patsy, during her interview. This has to do with the medicine drawers. NP posed the question, and I just took it and ran with it..and decided to post the different portions of Patsy's interview for clarification.


    18 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay. I awakened
    19 that morning, probably somewhere between 5:30
    20 and 6. We are going to take off for the airport
    21 just at 7, we were going to the lake house. I
    22 got up and walked over here to my bathroom right
    23 in here.

    24 TRIP DeMUTH: I am sorry, I missed
    25 what you said, what time you said.
    0009
    1 PATSY RAMSEY: Sometime
    2 between 5:30 and 6 a.m. And walked around
    3 here to the bathroom and I did not take a shower
    4 that morning, so I don't know, you know, what
    5 exactly I did here. I mean other than just get
    6 dressed, brush my teeth, put on my make up. And
    7 get ready to go.


    <SNIPPED>


    10 TOM HANEY: Okay. When you got up,
    11 was it pitch black?
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: John -- John, I
    13 remember his bathroom right here had a light.
    14 TOM HANEY: Okay. So it's shining
    15 somewhat down to here, but we are talking quite
    16 a distance?
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, there is a
    18 hall light here, right here I think. That was
    19 on. Because I remember, you know, when you
    20 first look up it's like bright, you know, but I
    21 think that he was up already, he had gone
    22 through here, you know, to his bathroom area.
    23 TOM HANEY: What I would like to do
    24 then is with this blue marker, can you just
    25 indicate the path that you took getting out of
    0018
    1 bed and then the first stop you made, the first
    2 thing you did along that route.
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: My clothes were
    4 probably thrown on the bathtub (INAUDIBLE).

    5 TOM HANEY: Let me stop you there.
    6 The clothes that you say were thrown down, those
    7 were clothes you had worn the night before?
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    9 TOM HANEY: Okay. Seems odd to me.
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Early. I do this a
    11 lot.
    12 TOM HANEY: Now did you intend to
    13 wear those the rest of the day though or --
    14 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS)?
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably what I
    16 thought I would do, you know, my thinking was I
    17 have my underwear and all that is in these
    18 drawers here, so I put my underwear on, but I
    19 put the black velvet pants on the and the red
    20 sweater, red top, and then we have clothes up at
    21 the lake, and I took a few things with me.
    You
    22 know, it was just so early, I was just going to
    23 throw on whatever I had up there. Just get in,
    24 tumble into bed and when we awake early, you
    25 know, kind of almost get ready up there. You
    0019
    1 know.
    I put make up on and brushed my
    3 hair but --[/
    COLOR]

    4 TOM HANEY: Let me steal that for a
    5 second before --
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: It's all over your
    7 shirt, yeah.
    8 TOM HANEY: So this would have not
    9 been your normal routine, though, to put the
    10 same clothes on?
    11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I do whatever
    12 I want. I told you that. I mean if I had a
    13 pair, you know, of black shorts on, you can wear
    14 them two, three days, before I send them to the
    15 dry cleaners. I might have changed the top or
    16 something but --
    17 TOM HANEY: Okay. Okay.
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't like to do
    19 laundry so I --
    20 TOM HANEY: And you're getting
    21 ready for this trip anyway?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    23 TOM HANEY: And there is really not
    24 a whole lot of time --
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    0020
    1 TOM HANEY: -- if you're going to
    2 leave at 7?
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

    4 TOM HANEY: So you say you put your
    5 makeup on?
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding.)

    7 TOM HANEY: What brands of makeup
    8 do you wear?
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: Different kinds.
    10 TOM HANEY: Do you know what it
    11 would have been at that time?
    12 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably the
    13 foundation was probably either Clinique or
    14 Chanel, my sister sells Chanel and she has
    15 samples of everything. So keeps us in samples
    16 (INAUDIBLE). Just guessing, I don't know.
    17 TOM HANEY: What did you say this
    18 was, the--
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: Foundation.
    20 TOM HANEY: Foundation. Okay. Are
    21 there other things that you put on--

    22 PATSY RAMSEY: Blush, lipstick. I
    23 probably didn't really do a terrific job. I
    24 mean just putting, get a little bit on and go,
    25 you know.
    0021

    1 TOM HANEY: Okay. And how long do
    2 you think all that in the bathroom took?
    3 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, 20, 30 minutes.



    THE MEDICINE DRAWERS IN PATSY'S BATHROOM....


    The Medicine Drawers were left open, but apparently Patsy didn't notice that when she was in that same bathroom changing clothes, putting on her make-up and fixing her hairdo.


    15 THOMAS HANEY: 32?
    16 PATSY RAMSEY: That's the bathroom
    17 to my bedroom
    .

    18 THOMAS HANEY: Is that normally
    19 used by anybody?
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: Not on a day-to-day
    21 basis, not really.I don't know why the drawers
    22 would have been out, but..
    .

    23 THOMAS HANEY: What's normally
    24 stored in those?
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, that's usually
    0285
    1 where I kept my supplies for my -- when I was
    2 taking chemo, when I had my shots and my little
    3 alcohol wipes, thermometers, and all that kind
    4 of stuff. And I could have been looking
    5 through, looking for a thermometer to take on
    6 vacation.
    7 TRIP DeMUTH: What's in the draw
    8 below that one? There are two drawers open?
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, I
    10 don't know. I just hadn't used it, all that
    11 area, that much.

    12 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. Number 33.
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: This is the shot of
    14 the bedroom, looking out through the door to her
    15 door.
    16 THOMAS HANEY: Anything unusual or
    17 out of place or --
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
    19 THOMAS HANEY: 34?
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: I just can't imagine
    21 why I would leave those open if I had done --

    22 THOMAS HANEY: The drawers that you
    23 were talking about earlier?
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

    25 VOICE: That's 34?
    0286
    1 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
    2 TRIP DeMUTH: Did you have syringes
    3 in there?
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: I would have at one
    5 time. Now, whether I had any in there now, I
    6 don't remember. Seems like I got rid of all
    7 that stuff. With kids around. I don't know. I
    8 just wasn't in there that much. I can't tell
    9 you.


    Now why didn't she notice these open drawers when she was in the bathroom for "20-30 minutes"? Because IMO...she wasn't IN the bathroom changing clothes or putting on makeup or doing her hair....she never went to bed that night, so there was no need to re-do anything.
     
  2. tylin

    tylin Banned

    Good find AMES.

    At least we know why she didn't 'do' her makeup, hair and redress. She never took her makeup or clothes off. She was too busy writing the ransom note and staging the crime scene---no way she dressed that morning. If I remember correctly, her side of the bed wasn't slept in either. The pic of the bed is either here or at ACandyRose's place.
     
  3. heymom

    heymom Member

    And 20-30 minutes is hardly just "putting a little makeup on." It takes me a maximum of 10 minutes to put my "face on," and I use shadow, concealer, eyeliner, foundation and mascara, in that approximate order. I can do it in less than 5 minutes if I'm rushed.

    Her timeline also does not match what happened. But we knew that already.
    :poke:
     
  4. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Member

    Yes, this is a good find! I would definitely notice any open drawers or cabinets right away.


    -Tea
     
  5. icedtea4me

    icedtea4me Member

    Same here as I've even timed myself putting on my makeup. It, also, takes me about ten minutes to do (moisturizer, foundation, eyeliner, blush, and mascara). I wonder if her saying that it took her 20-30 minutes to do what she needed to do in the bathroom, and then the 5-10 minutes she said she spent in the laundry area was her way of cluing the detectives in "Hey! Pay attention! You know this couldn't have happened this way!"


    -Tea
     
  6. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    OK, it's been a very long time since I read all this in context, so let me make sure we are talking about the same thing.

    In the questions and answers about the bathroom drawers being left open, I thought that was in reference to the bathroom adjacent to JAR'S room. We were discussing that here not too long ago, weren't we? I think ACR had some pics from the Schiller documentary that she brought up with the same passages, which she was trying to match to the questions in that interview.

    I was thinking that we were wondering why Patsy called that "her" bedroom/bathroom, and maybe she stayed in that room when she was recovering from chemo because of the bathroom being nearer than in the master suite. I think Patsy said that in DOI...?

    So that wouldn't have been the bathroom she was speaking of being in the morning of the 26th, would it?

    Maybe I'm just misunderstanding.

    But because of all the clothes and suitcase on the bed in JAR's room, I don't think Patsy would have slept in there that night, at any rate.

    Maybe I'm just confused about the passages you're referencing, Ames.
     
  7. ACandyRose

    ACandyRose Super Moderator

    This is the link to the page I did on JAR's room where Patsy is using the term, "the bathroom to my bedroom." The crime scene photos I used to match up the transcript with were from "Court TV "A Second Look" 5/10/03"

    http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-bedroom-JAR.htm

    It appears that they are discussing crime scene photos #29 thru #34 all in JAR's bedroom. It's in photo #32 where Patsy says:

    ======================================
    0284-05) THOMAS HANEY: 32? PATSY RAMSEY: That's the bathroom to my bedroom. THOMAS HANEY: Is that normally used by anybody? PATSY RAMSEY: Not on a day-to-day basis, not really. I don't know why the drawers would have been out, but...
    ======================================

    Now why she calls that "the bathroom in my bedroom" I can only *assume* she meant that at one time JAR's room was her bedroom during her illness so she still calls the bedroom hers which is kind of generic because she also reference that same room as "John Andrews Bedroom" and "the guest room."

    LOL, I mean did these people even live in this house?

    But getting back to Patsy's actual real bathroom, I did find this section in the June '98 transcript where John mentions about the bathroom being repaired. John is saying here that the faucet was broken in Patsy's shower but that around November they had a plumber fix that. But apparently there was a hole in the shower wall that Mervin Pugh was suppose to repair and according to other transcript references, that was to be over Thanksgiving '96. I can find no reference so far whether Pugh ever repaired that hole in the shower wall but according to John the shower itself was fixed by the plumber.

    Remember in DOI I think it was where Patsy claimed she didn't take a shower that morning because she said her shower was broken.

    Not that it makes any sense either way since they had enough showers in the house that Patsy could have went anywhere and took a shower that morning had she actually wanted to be fresh and clean to impress her future son-in-law.

    ======================================
    June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane

    0297
    12 JOHN RAMSEY: Not that I recall. We did have
    13 -- the only work that was done in that period was:
    14 Patsy's shower faucet had broken, the water. And
    15 so we had a plumber come in. they tore out the
    16 wall, you know, to get the valve out and replaced
    17 out. And that was done, maybe Novemberish.
    18 So now we had the shower wall with a big hole in
    19 it and this Mervin Pew over Thanksgiving to repair
    20 that tile work. But that's all work we had done in
    21 the house around that period of time.
    22 MIKE KANE: And while this Marvin Pew
    23 was making that repair, did you contact him to do
    24 that?
    25 JOHN RAMSEY: I didn't. Patsy arranged

    0298
    1 for them to do some work. I remember she came to
    2 her and said, "We'd like some work." And she gave
    3 them a list of things to do. I think that's how.
    ======================================

    ACR
     
  8. tylin

    tylin Banned

    ACandyRose,
    How do you do it?
    T :bow: :yay:
    For the billionth time....thank you!!!
     
  9. AMES

    AMES Member

    15 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably what I
    16 thought I would do, you know, my thinking was I
    17 have my underwear and all that is in these
    18 drawers here, so I put my underwear on, but I
    19 put the black velvet pants on the and the red
    20 sweater, red top, and then we have clothes up at
    21 the lake, and I took a few things with me.
    You
    22 know, it was just so early, I was just going to
    23 throw on whatever I had up there. Just get in,
    24 tumble into bed and when we awake early, you
    25 know, kind of almost get ready up there.



    See, this makes no sense to me. Why didn't she take a shower? Even if she didn't wash her hair. She took 20-30 minutes putting on her makeup and doing her hair...but didn't take a shower??? WHY?? Why waste your time putting on makeup and doing your hair, when you are just going to have to re-do it all, once you get to your destination?? It would have taken her all of about 10 minutes to jump in and out of the shower, if that. I don't ever recall a time that I just applied by makeup, and did my hair, without taking a shower. I always take a shower before doing these things, even if I am in a hurry, and take one real quick without washing my hair. If I was going to not take a shower...the I would NOT do my makeup or my hair.....since I was going to have to re-do all of these things anyway. No, Patsy didn't have to redress, or reapply makeup or redo her hair....because she never went to bed that night. IMO
     
  10. AMES

    AMES Member

    Patsy always reminded me of Tammy Faye Baker, with all of that makeup she wore. In their very first televised interview...I swear the woman was wearing a mask. Its the first thing that I noticed. Why would you pile this much makeup on, and do your hair....only to have to re-do it after you showered at the place of your destination?? Yes, I know that I have already asked this question, once...LOL It just makes no sense to me. This fact, and the fact that Patsy's TWO drawers in Patsy's bathroom were open and she didn't notice it...is a huge major red flag. IMO And especially when she woke up and found her daughter "missing"...she would have automatically started going through her mind, trying to remember anything that was out of place, or looked different. I believe that this was where the latex gloves were kept.
     
  11. Cranberry

    Cranberry Member

    From the PR 6/98 interview:


    15 THOMAS HANEY: But that's John

    16 Andrew's room?

    17 PATSY RAMSEY: When he was there.

    18 You know, we just referred to it as his room.

    19 THOMAS HANEY: Sure, I understand.

    20 PATSY RAMSEY: This is the room I

    21 recuperated from when I came out.

    22 THOMAS HANEY: Do you know when

    23 John Andrew last would have stayed there?

    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Not for sure.

    25 THOMAS HANEY: Did he store other

    0281

    1 things there?

    2 PATSY RAMSEY: I know he had some

    3 of his things, some college, at the house, but I

    4 really can't tell you where they were or what it

    5 was.

    6 THOMAS HANEY: But he would have

    7 had things of his in the house?

    8 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.

    9 THOMAS HANEY: But you just can't

    10 say what for sure would have been in that room?

    11 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

    12 THOMAS HANEY: Did he keep clothes

    13 or --

    14 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't think he

    15 had many clothes.

    16 THOMAS HANEY: Speaking of clothes,

    17 you're packing for this trip in that photo and

    18 in 30, and that's where, for the Big Red Boat?

    19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.

    20 THOMAS HANEY: So and we talked

    21 yesterday, you were going to come back on

    22 Saturday from Charlevoix, Sunday leave in the

    23 morning for the Big Red Boat.

    24 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nodding.)

    25 THOMAS HANEY: Was that getting to

    0282

    1 be a bit much, Christmas, and I know you do

    2 Christmas, you had Christmas trees everywhere,

    3 lots of decorations, pretty big time of the year

    4 and the trip the next day and the Big Red Boat

    5 birthday and everything else. Was that

    6 getting -- was it a little hectic?

    7 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, we -- that's

    8 what we do, we go away a lot, it's not terribly

    9 unusual. I mean, I am used to kind of packing

    10 for different places, you know. Not anything

    11 unusual, different.

    12 THOMAS HANEY: Do you see anything

    13 unusual in photograph 30?

    14 PATSY RAMSEY: I use that bed with

    15 all the clothes on, so. There were several, a

    16 lot of clothes, you know.

    17 TRIP DeMUTH: Did you recover in

    18 this room when you had cancer?

    19 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

    20 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you ever sleep in

    21 this room since or more recent times, closer to

    22 Christmas?

    23 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-uh.

    24 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.

    25 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't like to go

    0283

    1 in there too much.

    2 TRIP DeMUTH: Bad memories?

    3 PATSY RAMSEY: Bad memories.

    4 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
     
  12. AMES

    AMES Member

    Okay, so you are saying that the Bathroom where she got ready and put on her makeup, is not the same bathroom that had the drawers open?? I am confused now. It looked to me, when I was reading the interview..that it was the same bathroom, where she got ready, and the drawers were open.
     
  13. Cranberry

    Cranberry Member

    And this from PR 6/98 interview (thank you ACandyRose):

    7 PATSY RAMSEY: That's where I kept

    8 summer clothes, you know, when I transitioned.

    9 TRIP DeMUTH: And you're referring

    10 to the large --

    11 PATSY RAMSEY: Tupperware trunk

    12 kind of thing. Green. Probably digging in

    13 there looking for shorts and beach wear, things

    14 that I wanted to wear.

    15 THOMAS HANEY: 32?

    16 PATSY RAMSEY: That's the bathroom

    17 to my bedroom.

    18 THOMAS HANEY: Is that normally

    19 used by anybody?

    20 PATSY RAMSEY: Not on a day-to-day

    21 basis, not really. I don't know why the drawers

    22 would have been out, but...

    23 THOMAS HANEY: What's normally

    24 stored in those?

    25 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, that's usually

    0285

    1 where I kept my supplies for my -- when I was

    2 taking chemo, when I had my shots and my little

    3 alcohol wipes, thermometers, and all that kind

    4 of stuff. And I could have been looking

    5 through, looking for a thermometer to take on

    6 vacation.

    7 TRIP DeMUTH: What's in the draw

    8 below that one? There are two drawers open?

    9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, I

    10 don't know. I just hadn't used it, all that

    11 area, that much.

    12 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. Number 33.

    13 PATSY RAMSEY: This is the shot of

    14 the bedroom, looking out through the door to her

    15 door.

    16 THOMAS HANEY: Anything unusual or

    17 out of place or --

    18 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

    19 THOMAS HANEY: 34?

    20 PATSY RAMSEY: I just can't imagine

    21 why I would leave those open if I had done --

    22 THOMAS HANEY: The drawers that you

    23 were talking about earlier?

    24 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

    25 VOICE: That's 34?

    0286

    1 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.

    2 TRIP DeMUTH: Did you have syringes

    3 in there?

    4 PATSY RAMSEY: I would have at one

    5 time. Now, whether I had any in there now, I

    6 don't remember. Seems like I got rid of all

    7 that stuff. With kids around. I don't know. I

    8 just wasn't in there that much. I can't tell

    9 you.

    10 TRIP DeMUTH: Could the kids get in

    11 there? Play in this room?

    12 PATSY RAMSEY: Not really. It was

    13 kind of a -- they didn't do it too much.

    14 THOMAS HANEY: They kind of

    15 consider it --

    16 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.

    17 THOMAS HANEY: -- off-limits?

    18 PATSY RAMSEY: It was just kind of

    19 back out of the way and nobody really --

    20 TRIP DeMUTH: How about John?

    21 PATSY RAMSEY: Big John?

    22 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-hum.

    23 PATSY RAMSEY: I must have just

    24 used it for folding clothes and packing and, you

    25 know.

    0287

    1 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. 35?

    2 PATSY RAMSEY: This is the little

    3 hallway down -- you turn left, it goes into the

    4 playroom. (INAUDIBLE. )
     
  14. Cranberry

    Cranberry Member

    The drawers were open in JAR's bedroom/bathroom (PR used that room during cancer recovery).
     
  15. AMES

    AMES Member

    Okay, thanks for the clarification. She probably opened them when she was packing for their trip...but, regardless, she is going to try and make it looked like the intruder did it. Notice how dumbfounded she acts when shown the pictures of the open drawers? At first she says..."well, maybe I opened them to grab a thermometer to take on the trip"...and then she kept saying, "I don't know why I would have left those drawers open like that." (Trying to point the finger at the intruder, as always). My guess is, that since they kept medical supplies in there, they also had latex gloves, both drawers were open because one of the Ramsey's couldn't remember which drawer they were kept in.
     
  16. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Ah. Now THAT is a bright idea there, Ames. I think you are right. That would explain a lot.
     
  17. AMES

    AMES Member

    Thanks...I hated it that I started a thread about Patsy not noticing the drawers were open when she was getting ready on the morning of the 26th....because I thought the drawers were in the same bathroom as she was when she got dressed. But, at least it gave us something else to think about....WHY were those drawers open? We all know that there was NO intruder. If she had grabbed a thermometer to take on a trip from one of the drawers..why didn't she say that and drop it? Why keep on saying... that it was "unusual for the drawers to be open"..and that she didn't know why she would have left them open like that. (Trying to point the finger at the invisible intruder). Even after the interviewer had moved along to the next picture...Patsy was STILL saying..."I don't know why those drawers were open like that". Like I said before, I believe that included in the medicine drawer, was latex gloves....and that they were used to stage the crime scene. She probably used the Sharpie Pen because it was easier to use with the gloves on, than a regular ball point pen. They are bigger around and easier to hold.

    I posted a medical website link on the WBS board, awhile back..and it stated that in the case of a severe head wound, there is bleeding from the mouth, nose and ears. We all KNOW that JB's head wound was just about as severe as you can get. I am sure that she bled from these places. And I think that Patsy could have also had sterile gauze pads and sterile wipes....and such, in the medicine drawer along with the latex gloves. I believe that these could have been used to clean her up with.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2007
  18. AMES

    AMES Member

    What? Huh?

    15 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably what I
    16 thought I would do, you know, my thinking was I
    17 have my underwear and all that is in these
    18 drawers here,so I put my underwear on, but I
    19 put the black velvet pants on the and the red
    20 sweater, red top, and then we have clothes up at
    21 the lake, and I took a few things with me. You
    22 know, it was just so early, I was just going to
    23 throw on whatever I had up there. Just get in,
    24 tumble into bed and when we awake early, you
    25 know, kind of almost get ready up there. You
    0019
    1 know.
    I pu 2t make up on and brushed my
    3 hair but --
    4 TOM HANEY: Let me steal that for a
    5 second before --
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: It's all over your
    7 shirt, yeah.

    8 TOM HANEY: So this would have not
    9 been your normal routine, though, to put the
    10 same clothes on?


    Does anyone know what the heck Patsy is talking about here? "It's all over your shirt, yeah." ???? What is all over who's shirt?
     
  19. tylin

    tylin Banned

    Guessing here but I think she's talking about makeup being all over her shirt.
     
  20. Little

    Little Member

    I thought she was just finishing his sentence.

    Little
     
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