So I bought a copy of "Mind Hunter"

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by heymom, Jul 11, 2007.

  1. heymom

    heymom Member

    and I think John Douglas is a self-obsessed, profane, somewhat criminally-minded egomaniac! He's a pompous arse too.

    You'd think he cured cancer with one hand tied behind his back, the way he describes his antics leading up to his FBI career and into that period. Everybody wanted John to work for them, and he got special treatment in the Air Force just because he was ballsy enough to ask for a different job? Unlikely, sorry John.

    I found it very interesting that he describes his FBI offices as being deep underground, and windowless. He says "10 times deeper than dead." Since JonBenet was found in the deepest underground room of her house, in a windowless room, I thought it was an odd coincidence.

    If I can get through his bragging chapters, maybe he will actually tell me something about the people he studied. I'm looking for anything John Ramsey might have used in the staging to throw LE off just enough to muddy the waters.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2007
  2. Greenleaf

    Greenleaf FFJ Senior Member

    Have Bag of Complimentary Words/Will Travel...

    John Douglas’ imaginary profile of an imaginary wealthy John Mark Karr:

    Karr is basically a smart, articulate, outstanding young man. While his love for children is oftentimes misinterpreted, and his teaching career riddled with bias (from those who are jealous of his charm and good looks) he displays all the characteristics of a loyal, law-abiding citizen, with great love for his church, family and country.
    I make these determinations, relying upon my stellar career as the most prominent and respected Profiler in the Western world.
    It only took some 20 minutes of my precious time to come to these obvious conclusions. So confidant am I, in my final analysis, that I challenge anyone to dispute my findings.
    My word is good as gold in the legal world, and, if you are in need of a Profiler for hire, check out my web site:
    www.Have complimentary words 4sale@ profiles/will travel.com

    GL

    Hi, heymom.
     
  3. heymom

    heymom Member

    :floor: Greenie. You. Make. Me. Laugh. So. Hard. I. Am. Choking.

    Bwwaaaahaawwwwhhhaaaa!
     
  4. Tez

    Tez Member

    Heymom, after you get done choking and finish "Mind Hunter," try reading his book, "Obsession." You will be floored once again.

    His ego knows no bounds. You can see where he went against everything he ever wrote about profiling when he went to work for "Team Ramsey."

    Greenie, too funny! Thanks for making me laugh, my friend!!!!
     
  5. heymom

    heymom Member

    Tez, I don't think I can get through another self-love-fest...sorry! And his nasty language - it's just not necessary. I don't like crude, coarse people and he sure seems like one of those.

    I am finding it very thought-provoking reading, though, in one regard. There are tidbits here and there that give me pause to think about whether or not JR used anything in this book while staging JonBenet's crime scene. I will try to copy some stuff into this thread later.
     
  6. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Greenleaf, I can't get that link to open. Is it a real link, or were you just fooling?

    Douglas had me fooled...right up until the Ramsey case. I had read all his books, and when I came online, Douglas had a "column" at a website called APB.com (no longer exists). He had maybe half a dozen articles he'd written, and ONE WAS ABOUT HOW FAMILY MEMBERS STAGE THE MURDER OF ANOTHER FAMILY MEMBER. Douglas stated that THEY WOULD WRAP/CARE FOR THE BODY, LEAVING IT SOMEWHERE IN THE HOME, OR WRAP IT AND BURY IT NEARBY, TO PROTECT IT, INSTEAD OF DUMPING IT WILLY NILLY OUTSIDE WHERE ANIMALS COULD DESTROY IT. I am NOT making this up! I thought, well, there it is, EXACTLY what JOHN described when asked about how he found JonBenet.

    John not only DESCRIBED her being WRAPPED LOVINGLY, but he also USED HIS HANDS TO SHOW SMIT HOW SHE WAS WRAPPED, describing it like a PAPOOSE. And lo and behold, if you look at pictures of John holding JonBenet as a baby, I think there's one in DOI, there is JonBenet in his arms, WRAPPED JUST LIKE JOHN DESCRIBED.

    In Douglas's later book where he has the chapter on the murder of JonBenet, you'll find the STRANGEST THING: in the middle of writing all about HIS PART as a Ramsey shill, how the Ramseys are innocent because otherwise, they'd FOOLED HIM, all his past writings completely contradicted to boot, Douglas actually throws in a story about ONE CASE where A MAN MURDERED HIS WIFE, THEN HID HER BODY IN THE BASEMENT SO THEIR CHILD WOULDN'T FIND HER WHEN HE GOT HOME FROM SCHOOL. This murdering husband STAGED THE CRIME SCENE TO LOOK LIKE AN INTRUDER HAD DONE THE DEED, MAKING IT LOOK LIKE A SEX CRIME. Oh, yeah, Douglas actually put that case in, FAILING to see the SIMILARITIES to the Ramsey case, obviously.

    One thing Douglas wrote in that APB.com article that has always weighed heavily with me on why I can't see Burke knowing much about this murder is that Douglas said when families murder their own and stage a cover-up, they keep members close by so they can't TELL what they know. I just don't see the Ramseys letting Burke leave that morning, plus be interviewed by a psychiatrist for LE a few weeks later. If Burke knew anything incriminating, I think they'd have feared him revealing something under such pressure, and with experts who know how to manipulate an interview, especially with a child. The Ramseys certainly had EVERY opportunity to keep Burke from being questioned, when they weren't going to risk that for themselves.

    Anyhow...it's been a long time since I read Mindhunter, heymom, long before the Ramsey murder. It taught me a lot about feet of clay when Douglas pulled his RST stunt: yes, Douglas went against everything he ever wrote when he, first, came to an opinion and went public with it without seeing the case file, knowing the suspects, even interviewing John, plus being PAID by the suspects! All his attempts to reclaim his former credibility fell flat with me: he gave his fee back later, and never stops acting like that then made his original opinion somehow also retroactively untainted. HAHAHA

    Douglas has never stopped opining that the Ramseys are innocent, nonetheless. Wasn't Douglas interviewed on TV when KARR was arrested? Well, maybe I'm wrong about that...anyone remember? But Douglas has talked about the case on a radio show not so long ago, and like so many Ramsey shills, Douglas just can't admit he screwed up and interfered in a child murder investigation that resulted in A CHILD KILLER GOING FREE.
     
  7. heymom

    heymom Member

    Douglas on Karr

    I didn't see him on TV, but I know he gave a statement at some point. I just can't remember what exactly he said.

    And it's just like they always say...Everybody has his price. Some cost more, some less, but it's just a matter of what figure is discussed. I think Douglas wanted money and fame/power and that's what Ramsey was selling.
     
  8. JC

    JC Superior Cool Member

    This is very interesting, KK. I wonder how BC would respond. It's probably been discussed before at webslueths and I just missed it.
     
  9. Jayelles

    Jayelles Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Hey Sulky

    Present for you:-

    http://web.archive.org/web/20001027...olvers/douglas/1999/10/07/douglas1007_01.html
     
  10. heymom

    heymom Member

    When a parent kills a child

    Or it could be that a close relationship existed between the killer and the victim. Let's say a parent kills a child and then buries the body. You may find that the child was carefully wrapped or the face covered to keep dirt from getting in the mouth. In essence, someone is caring for the child after death.

    There's a word we use: "undoing." That's when someone tries to somehow lessen the damage after committing the crime, maybe by cleansing and bandaging the wounds. The killer may try softening the appearance of the crime by making the body's position restful and clasping the hands, almost like the victim is laid out. It's a way of symbolically erasing or reversing the crime, and it suggests remorse. Doing this gives the subject away. It's a personal crime -- strangers wouldn't likely do this.


    The Ramseys did do this, but they also tried to stage the crime to suggest that the perpetrator was a sexual sadist, as John Douglas describes many times in "Mind Hunter." There are enough elements of the crimes Douglas profiles to suggest that the end John Ramsey was trying to accomplish was to make up a perpetrator to fit a profile of a sexual predator. He couldn't make up his mind between that and a kidnapper, though, so I guess he incorporated both. I still think that he and Patsy would have wanted to get JonBenet's body out of the house if they could have. The closest they could get was to pretend as if her body *were* out of the house, and then the rest of the staging presented a different story.

    The little bit of sexual cruelty that was done to JonBenet's body was mainly to try and cover up that she'd already been sexually molested. But it also served the purpose of muddying the waters of the investigation - no parent would do such a thing to a child, would they? So it would have to be an intruder, and a kinky one at that.

    Douglas must have known that the Ramseys were involved, they just paid him off. The way he profiles crimes, he could see through this one in a heartbeat. He must have needed the money really bad in order to sell himself out like that. And John Ramsey can be persuasive when he needs to be. In any case, I guess Douglas came to his senses after a while, but not fast enough.
     
  11. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    Thanks, Jayelles. I guess you expect me to end my extended pout now. I'll think about it....

    That's the gist of the article of which I spoke, but it's missing some of the "family" stuff, like keeping the other family members close. That particular column/article by Douglas was written specificallly for that site, rather than for another newspaper/other media column. I tried looking under the other titles at your link, as I can't remember the title of the piece I'm referencing, but I did post it a few times in the long, lost past on long, lost forums/threads.

    But thanks, maybe I'll try again later.

    Now...to pout or not to pout, that is the question.... :confused:
     
  12. heymom

    heymom Member

    Here's Douglas speaking to MSNBC about Karr.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14399274/site/newsweek/

    He talks about the stun gun and the fact that many abductions go awry. He says, "Parents kill, but they don't kill this way." Maybe not, John, but parents DO STAGE that way, after an accidental killing.

    He looks like a total stooge and an idiot.
     
  13. Thor

    Thor Active Member

    He IS a total stooge and an idiot.
     
  14. heymom

    heymom Member

    John Douglas writes:

    Mind Hunter, p. 297,

    "The problem posed by staged crimes for any of us in the law enforcement field is that you can easily become emotionally involved with the victims and survivors. If someone is in obvious distress, we obviously want to believe him. If he's a halfway decent actor, if the crime appears legitimate on the surface, there's a tendency to look no further. Like doctors, we can empathize with the victims, but we're doing no one any favors if we lose our objectivity.

    What kind of person could have done such a thing?

    As painful as the answer to that question might sometimes be, that's what we're here to find out."
     
  15. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

    I think the problem here is that John Douglas never read his own books/articles.
     
  16. heymom

    heymom Member

    Does that mean he didn't WRITE them either??? Because you can't write something and not read it.

    I think the Ramseys bought him off, because from reading this book, HE is the exact person who could solve this crime.
     
  17. koldkase

    koldkase FFJ Senior Member

  18. The Punisher

    The Punisher Member

    (As Groucho Marx): But don't let that fool you. He really is a stooge and idiot.

    "Good as gold," eh? A bit tarnished, if I do say so myself!
     
  19. heymom

    heymom Member

    I am going to post all the very interesting passages

    I came upon while reading this book, as Ames has done with Patsy's and John's interviews.

    Funny - Hubby got up before I did today and found the book in the kitchen...When I got up, he said, "Are you reading this? You're sure into some sick stuff these days!" And then I told him that I was reading it because it had been on John Ramsey's nightstand when JonBenet was killed. He said, "We've got to get you off this case!"

    It's funny because HE was the one who originally came in and started searching for more information on JonBenet, when Karr came up last year. I've read everything I can on the case, and of course, nothing new is going to happen. But I can't let go.

    Tomorrow I will copy all the stuff I highlighted, it will be thought-provoking.
     
  20. AMES

    AMES Member

    LOL...I hear what I either think is BLAH, BLAH, BLAH....or the wind blowing..and its actually my husband saying, "are you on that crime scene thing again?" He asks me the SAME question every single day. He says..."that crime hasn't been solved in TEN years...and you think that you're going to be the one to do it?"
     
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