Talk to Us Then, Linda!

Discussion in 'Justice for JonBenet Discussion - Public Forum' started by RiverRat, Apr 11, 2002.

  1. RiverRat

    RiverRat FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Lef

    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/ramsey/article/0,1299,DRMN_1296_1081280,00.html



    Case against Ramseys dismissed
    Couple's book didn't defame housekeeper, federal judge decides

    By Owen S. Good, News Staff Writer
    April 11, 2002

    BOULDER -- A federal judge has dismissed a defamation lawsuit filed against John and Patsy Ramsey by their former housekeeper.

    The April 8 ruling in federal district court in Atlanta throws out Linda Hoffmann-Pugh's claim that the Ramseys libeled her in a book they wrote by saying she was a suspect in the Dec. 26, 1996, slaying of their 6-year-old daughter, JonBenet.
    ***Snip

    Edited for compliance of "fair use."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 19, 2002
  2. Mels

    Mels Member

    Wouldn't it be great if we could convince LP to entertain our questions much like Dr. Bea? Less confrontational, limited participation on her part and perhaps she would go for it.

    And..while we're at it, since the 'silencing' of the JBR Grand Jurors has been lifted, is it possible to get any of them to talk? I would have thought Journalists would be all over them and book deals flying.

    Mels
     
  3. Show Me

    Show Me FFJ Senior Member

    I'd be very interested in what Linda had to say. I feel sorry that she lost her suit, the Rams put her and her family through hell.
     
  4. AK

    AK Member

    Mels

    Under the current ban, no journalist can approach the Grand Jurors.

    However if a Grand Juror wishes to talk he or she should contact media outlets very familiar with handling sensitive legal issues who have the wherewithal to assess how best to proceed.

    That would not include Jameson.
     
  5. Elle

    Elle Member

    Disappointed

    Thanks for all the information on Linda Hoffman Pugh. All I can think of is Steve Thomas stating while Patsy Ramsey was wearing a fur coat on her way to the Fernie's home, after the body was found on 26 December, LHP was giving a sample of her writing to detectives.

    Patsy and John Ramsey should have had their clothes bagged, and hauled down to the police station. Instead, the clothes of Llnda Arndt are bagged and taken, with the Ramsey clothes being handed to the police four moinths later.

    Something wrong with these pictures!!!
     
  6. Thor

    Thor Active Member

    Yeah, this makes no sense to me, either. Its a no-brainer. This case was flawed from the get-go.
     
  7. Tez

    Tez Member

    Not only...

    did the Ramsey's put LHP through hell, look at what Jameson did with her daughter and the porno thing. And what she did with Mervin Pugh. I wonder if she can file a case against Jameson for that? Does anyone here know? Thanks!
     
  8. Shadow

    Shadow FFJ Senior Content Moderator

    No Justice!!

    From the Rocky Mountain News article:


    “Ramsey attorney L. Lin Wood of Atlanta called the dismissal "a resounding victory." He noted that since 2000, six civil suits have all resulted in settlements or dismissals favorable to the Ramseys. Monday's dismissal and last month's settlement of a libel lawsuit against former Boulder Detective Steve Thomas leaves only one remaining lawsuit, in which the Ramseys' guilt or innocence could be the focus of a civil lawsuit. Hoffman also represents former Boulder journalist Chris Wolf, whose name was among the 15 suspects in the Ramseys' book, in a libel suit against the Ramseys. Hoffman conceded that the suits were designed to try the Ramseys for the murder of their daughter. He has said that proving their culpability would prove they knowingly, falsely identified others as suspects. "There's no question that . . . there is an element of wanting to put the (criminal) evidence before a jury," Hoffman said. <b>The couple, despite wide police and public suspicion, have never faced criminal charges.â€</b>

    The civil suits brought for and against the Ramseys are a joke. Lin Wood’s crowing, notwithstanding, the dismissal and settlements have not been a “resounding victory†for the Ramseys as regards salvaging their reputations. Anyone with an IQ above 50 knows that the dismissal only proved that the judge did not think Linda Hoffmann-Pugh had been libeled by the Ramseys (a far cry from saying they were not involved in JBR’s death). And, the settlements actually only proved that most people will settle a lawsuit and save thousands of dollars in lawyer fees if the settlement amount is “token†so one side can say “we won.â€

    <b>No one is ever going to face criminal charges in the death of JBR!</b> Alex Hunter and his merry men and the Ramseys and their lawyers made sure of that unhappy fact. While many people dwell on the mistakes made by the BPD (yep they made them), the actions of Hunter, DeMuth, Hofstrom, Smit, et al appear to not be mistakes but deliberate and devious. For what reason Hunter and his demolition crew “deep-sixed†the case, I’m sure I don’t know. But, folks, what DA’s Office cooperates more with suspects than with the investigators; gives suspects police reports, physical evidence, and their statements to investigators; continually discusses the case with the suspect’s lawyers; continually ignores the advice of the County Police and the FBI; and prays with a prime suspect?

    Long before PMPT, or ST’s book, was published, I was privy to some “inside†information from fairly reliable FBI sources – for example, while the GJ was still in session, I posted at the JW Forum that FBI Agents from the Child Abduction and Serial Killer Unit felt that the Ramseys had been treated with “kid gloves,†felt that the DA’s Office would accomplish nothing questioning them with their lawyers present, and strongly suggested to Hunter that they be called to testify before the GJ to get their statements under oath. I also posted numerous times that I was told there would be no indictment if the Ramseys didn’t testify – BobC, for one, can verify this. I was told, and posted, that Hunter and DeMuth, basically, told the FBI to “get lost†and chose not to call the Ramseys (Kane wanted to call them also, but was overruled), after which the FBI continued to help the BPD when asked, but ignored Hunter and his crew. I also posted sometime after the GJ ended that some FBI Agents thought an obstruction of justice investigation was warranted. All of this was subsequently backed-up by PMPT and/or ST’s book…

    For whatever the reasons, the actions of the DA’s Office and the Ramseys insured that the killer of JBR would not be charged. I have said over and over and over that I have no idea who killed JBR – but, if the Ramseys had nothing to do with the death of their daughter, their actions from the time Patsy Ramsey called the police until today certainly have not helped bring the culprit to justice. Even those who are sure the Ramseys are innocent have to at least admit to themselves that the Ramseys’ actions don’t compare favorably with the actions of othersin similar situations who chose not to “cover-their-a**es†and cooperated with law enforcement.
     
  9. Watching You

    Watching You Superior Bee Admin

    Amen, Shadow

    and amen. Absolutely and totally correct - the DA's office (including Lou Smit) should have been investigated for obstruction of justice. Why weren't they? All I can think is there were some very powerful people pulling a lot of strings. One could say arrogance and ignorance in the DA's office ruined the case, and it did, but why did they get away with such obvious and blatant obstruction? Why are things like this allowed to go on? Corruption was virulent in that office. It never should have gone uninvestigated. Who was pulling the strings - Hadden? I think.
     
  10. Tez

    Tez Member

    WY...

    Hunter should have lost his job when Gosage and Thomas brought it to Koby's attention about his cooperation with the Globe and Jeff Shapiro. But, only in Boulder could this happen.

    I agree, that Lou Smit and company should be investigated for obstruction of justice. And Trip DeMuth, boy, I don't even want to go there. Who knows what sort of confidential information he took with him when he went to work after he left the DA's office.

    I wonder if Hunter was chitting bricks when Koby played that tape for him? That should have been an obstruction of justice charge right there!
     
  11. AK

    AK Member

    ???

    What's wrong with cooperating with reporters? A DA has an obligation to try to bring a case to trial, if that's possible. Ignoring an outlet that can help is foolish.
     
  12. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Sigh. Yeah I remember, Shadow. Unfortunately. That whole schpeel reminds me of the good old days when us dummies really thought it was just a matter of time before an arrest was made. What a dreamworld we were living in! But still it was kind of fun and exciting.
     
  13. Tez

    Tez Member

    Fedora X

    There isn't anything wrong with cooperating with reporters. It is when you are having reporters go after police investigators, saying, "I think it's his turn now." Or something very similiar to that. Bottom line, Alex Hunter should not have been cooperating with the Globe and having Jeff Shapiro do his dirty work for him. It is all in ST's book, what Hunter did, how he did it, and probably why he did it. He didn't like John Eller, so he wanted Jeff Shapiro to investigate him for sexual harrassment. Hunter was in bed with the tabloids, whether or not anyone wants to admit it. He was having them do his dirty work for him. Only problem was, he got caught. He should have been fired right then and there. And then charged with obstructing a police investigation. The only thing that saved his bacon was Tom Koby. He had Gosage destroy his copy of the tape. Then he took the other tape to Hunter and played it for him. I am also not saying that ST was entirely blameless in cooperating with Shapiro either, but at least he wasn't having him investigate the DA and get dirt on him....

    I guess unless you have lived in Boulder County and know how corrupt Hunter and Company were (and are) you probably just wouldn't understand. I speak from experience of living there for over 20 years, and watching how Hunter ran his office.

    Yes, ST burned his informant, but it was for a very good reason. He was trying to get justice for a little girl named JB. And if I were in his shoes, I would have done the same exact thing, but I would have taken it to someone other than Tom Koby. I would have taken it to the Attorney General, the F.B.I., or someone that would and could have changed the outcome. Heck, I may have even taken it to the mainstream media. Someone that wasn't a Hunter supporter, so I would not have taken it to The Daily Camera.
     
  14. fly

    fly Member

    couple of things

    shadow - Rather amusing to remember that you quit posting the information from your FBI source because the info had so frequently been worthless, and now see you claiming the tips were gold. LOL I guess those were the exceptions to the rule?


    As to Hunter and corruption.... Let's not ignore the fact that the group of outside folks were assigned to review what had been done (or not done) and to serve in an oversight role. They didn't indicate anything inappropriate had occurred.
     
  15. BobC

    BobC Poster of the EON - Fabulous Inimitable Transcript

    Sources can be wrong. I don't think Shadow should be mocked for it. I used to get mad when certain law enforcement sources were wrong, until I realized tha they and Hunter's bunch were carrying on seperate investigations --and each was saying the other side was wrong. Also I came to realize that any person connected to that case was giving his or her own OPINION, so naturally other people had differeing opinions, yada yada yada.

    I have never seen Hunter as corrupt--just not very bright, naive about the media, and slightly cowardly. His lack of leadership was one of the biggest problems with solving this case.
     
  16. fly

    fly Member

    not mocking

    BobC - I'm not mocking shadow, just giving him a good natured nudge in the ribs. And I remember well the pounding you took over your unfulfilled, "fasten your seat belts" alerts.

    I don't blame somebody when they report tips or rumors that turn out to be wrong. I might not be quite so eager to buy into their next scoop, but I don't have any ill will toward them.

    Shadow, himself, was the one who got disgusted with the accuracy of his source and who posted that he was not going to pass along any more information. Unlike your experience, I don't recall shadow getting much grief when things didn't work out. I think he was probably more disappointed than the rest of us.

    It's just amusing to see his source's accuracy extolled now. Maybe he had more than one source, and the inaccurate one is a different person.
     
  17. Shadow

    Shadow FFJ Senior Content Moderator

    fly - "It's just amusing to see his source's accuracy extolled now. Maybe he had more than one source, and the inaccurate one is a different person."

    Actually, fly, I did have a couple of very good sources that never gave me bum information (that I know of). One, an in-law who worked at the FBI Labs, has since passed away and the other has left the FBI to become a defense attorney. These are the ones I refer to in my post above.

    And, yes, I got "inaccurate" information from some smart a**es at Quantico - I mentioned what I was told by these guys (that I had already posted at JW) to my in-law and was told it was "total BS." At least I had the intregrity to immediately post that I was given bad info. As I recall, I explained where this incorrect info came from. Sure, I was p*ssed.

    Whatever, fly. Since I posted incorrect info and admitted it, you and everyone else most certainly have the right to take the above and whatever else I have to say with "a grain of salt."

    Political BobC - that was Hunter's "problem"...

    Taken from PMPT (see pages 672-673):

    Paraphasing - The FBI suggested that Hunter put the Ramseys under oath before the GJ. They said that it was insane to question them now, in the presence of their lawyers, who can easily figure out what the prosecutors knew by the questions being asked. The FBI said the Ramseys had been protected by their attorneys long enough.

    Direct Quotes -
    Hunter didn't want to hear it. He was going to rely on his trusted advisers on this, he said.

    "With no disrepect to your position as DA," said Bill Hagmaier of the FBI, "I know the Grand Jury is your call--"

    "Yes, it's my call," Hunter said, cutting him off. "And I'll make that decision after I've considered all the alternatives--"

    "But this little girl has been dead and buried for over eighteen months," Hagmaier continued in a firm voice.

    Hunter turned red. "This is a political decision," he said. "It is not a police decision."

    IMHO, It probably shouldn't have been a "political decision."
     
  18. Elle

    Elle Member

    wrong information

    I think at sometime or another, all of us have now and then made some mistakes, whether it was from a certain source or our own slip-up. Thor and I have been together for the past year at CN2000 ...and we just say "sorry" ... laugh and move on. We certainly don't chastise anyone.

    About Alex Hunter. It's very difficult to believe a District Attorney would pass important information about the JonBenét case to a sleazy reporter like Jeff Shapiro of the Globe, but he did! He also allowed author, Lawrence Schiller (PMPT) access to Steve Thomas' police reports when he was writing his book. This DA should have been removed from office many years ago, but I feel he was the product of the Boulder rich community, and I think he catered to their every whim; especially when it came to any of them being in trouble. The above two incidents are only two we know of. There's bound to be many more.
     
  19. Tez

    Tez Member

    Amen Elle!

    Thank you for seeing my point. He should not have done that. And, it was unethical!

    For those of you who don't think he is very bright, he is bright about one thing, Saving his A$$! What he did was wrong, there is not other word for it. And he should have be punished for it.

    Don't you think if his little James Bond mission with Jeff Shaprio would have become public knowledge at the time it happened, maybe this case would have been closer to a conculsion by now?

    For crying out loud he had Jeff Shapiro and Tony Frost in his office looking over the new Playboy. Is that more imporant than trying to find a killer of a 6-year-old girl?

    Think of all of the other ways that Hunter and Company obstructed justice in this case. DeMuth refused to sign simple warrants to get telephone and credit cards records that could have helped bust this case wide open. DeMuth refused to let ST talked to Melody Stanton about the scream she supposedly heard. And the topper, they let the Ramsey's lawyers see all of the the prior police statements, and other evidence before the Ramsey's would consent to an interview. Now, that isn't the way a typical murder investigation is run. Unless, it is in the "People's Republic of Boulder."
     
  20. Shadow

    Shadow FFJ Senior Content Moderator

    Hunter = dedicated political hack, acepted help from wrong people.

    Thomas = Dumb.

    Shapiro = Sleazy with IQ of 55.

    Thank you.
     
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