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  1. #37

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    I vote we look at Thailand for the kid. There have been kids used as sex toys there for so long it is still big business despite its nouveau illegality.
    It's all just my opinion. They're like noses-everybody has one.
    ____________________________________________

    "Personally, I think lawyers who immerse themselves in themselves are disturbed individuals who need to get a life, and are to be both prayed for and pitied." -quote from The HyperScrubulator, May 25th 2004
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    I eat noobs for breakfast, with a side of nails.

  2. #38

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    Check this out.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../wmaddy101.xml

    The 15 key blunders

    By Richard Edwards
    Last Updated: 12:19am BST 01/06/2007

    Four weeks after Madeleine went missing, the police investigation into her disappearance still appears to be suffering from the “basic errors” made in first few hours.

    1 Police were at the scene quickly but officers played down suggestions that Madeleine had been abducted and believed she had just wandered off. The crime scene in and around the hotel was not taped off, ruining prospects of obtaining vital forensic evidence.

    2 There was a lack of specialist fingertip searching in streets around the hotel meaning more opportunities to find forensic evidence were lost. A former senior British detective working for the media called the scene "the worst preserved" he had witnessed in his career.

    3 Officers failed to make early house-to-house inquiries when potential witnesses were still likely to be in the resort. Only on the Saturday, more than 48 hours later, did they start searching some local apartments and a full list of guests was obtained on Sunday. Staff at Mark Warner's complex were only questioned 60 hours after Madeleine disappeared.

    4 There are still people in the same apartment block as Mr and Mrs McCann who have never been questioned. Empty properties yards from where the child was taken have never been searched.

    5 Police failed to inform Spanish border authorities of Madeleine's disappearance until the morning after she was taken - giving the abductor the chance to flee the country.



    Entire list at link.
    Last edited by Cherokee; October 28, 2007, 5:05 pm at Sun Oct 28 17:05:48 UTC 2007.

  3. #39

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    Well, in all fairness, I have to say 30 years ago, I drove my car without seat belts on me or my small child, WHO STOOD IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BENCH SEAT NEXT TO ME. It took me about 25 years to quit putting my arm out to brace the right side passenger every time I braked when driving. Guess what? They didn't PUT seat belts in cars as old as mind was, and even in new cars wearing seat belts or putting children in them was NOT LAW. Most people who had them didn't use them, either. It took a LOT of education and a close call until I realized how important they are. I was lucky. So was my now grown child.

    My point: these parents obviously had no experience to fear something like this. It wasn't/isn't the daily fear of parents there, it seems. Like not locking doors UNTIL YOU ARE BURGLED, it takes something like this happening to make everyone aware that there are pervs out there.

    My son used to roam the neighborhood after school, on weekend days, in the summer, with other children who lived around us. They'd ride bikes, romp and have a good time. I'd check on him/them, approved in advance where they were going, went hunting them if they didn't come back when they were supposed to or were gone too long. I thought it was safe. It was. Nobody went missing or got injuried.

    Today, I think back...WHAT WAS I THINKING?

    I feel sorry for these parents. They made one mistake. It cost them everything.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  4. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase
    Well, in all fairness, I have to say 30 years ago, I drove my car without seat belts on me or my small child, WHO STOOD IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BENCH SEAT NEXT TO ME. It took me about 25 years to quit putting my arm out to brace the right side passenger every time I braked when driving. Guess what? They didn't PUT seat belts in cars as old as mind was, and even in new cars wearing seat belts or putting children in them was NOT LAW. Most people who had them didn't use them, either. It took a LOT of education and a close call until I realized how important they are. I was lucky. So was my now grown child.

    My point: these parents obviously had no experience to fear something like this. It wasn't/isn't the daily fear of parents there, it seems. Like not locking doors UNTIL YOU ARE BURGLED, it takes something like this happening to make everyone aware that there are pervs out there.

    My son used to roam the neighborhood after school, on weekend days, in the summer, with other children who lived around us. They'd ride bikes, romp and have a good time. I'd check on him/them, approved in advance where they were going, went hunting them if they didn't come back when they were supposed to or were gone too long. I thought it was safe. It was. Nobody went missing or got injuried.

    Today, I think back...WHAT WAS I THINKING?

    I feel sorry for these parents. They made one mistake. It cost them everything.
    So true KK. When I think back about lecturing my daughter and a little neighbor girl what to do if someone stopped to ask them directions, and then to have them run into the house one day when that exact thing happened. I told her grownups would never have a good reason to stop their car and ask little kids directions. I thank whatever lucky star it was that whispered in my ear to do that. Even before I was so aware of the terrible things that are in the news now I was going over "what ifs" with my daughter. Maybe it was because she always seemed to attract attention no matter where we went that I became hypervigilant about watching over her, I just don't know.

    That being said I think most parents do a "there but by the grace of God go I" when something like this happens.

    Predators are just that. Skilled at lurking and watching and waiting for the opportunity to strike. I get chills when I think about someone I thought was a nice person offering to baby-sit, but I got this inner chill and declined. One day I was getting out of the tub, heard a noise downstairs, and there he was, standing at the foot of the stairs. Later on he was charged with molesting some children in his neighborhood and he committed suicide. So you just never know who is ok except for you yourself.

    I guess it's a matter of realizing that there are no safe places, that you can never assume that just because it has never happened in your corner of the world that there is always a first time.

    It never bothered me that my daughter would think I was the biggest meanie in the world because I wouldn't let her go somewhere because I would think "that's ok, and you will be around tomorrow for us to make up".

    I have this island in mind that all these predators can be shipped to and just have at each other all day every day.

    Little

  5. #41
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    But KK, that was a different time. These parents are alive today, knowing what kind of world it is, they aren't in the 1950's or 1960's - they are here with us in 2007. We didn't have the same risks. I used to wander all over my town, at all hours of the night, alone. No one bothered me. I would NEVER allow my boys to do that now. My sis and I had a pallet in the back of my dad's Rambler station wagon and we slept and played while he drove us to Iowa, Missouri, Nebraska. Can you imagine? But there were far less cars on the road, people knew how to drive. It was just a long time ago.

    Maddie's parents should have felt a lot less sanguine about leaving their babies alone. It's just not the same world you and I grew up in. Not even in resorts, in countries previously thought of as safe.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  6. #42
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    Even if Portugal is the safest place on Earth, I can't imagine leaving babies three and under alone and out of earshot, just to go eat out.

    I remember being incensed when I read that the Ramseys left Burke alone while they drove to the hospital for Patsy to deliver JonBenet. Some family member was on the way to babysit, but what if that person had been involved in an accident on the way to the house? It seemed irresponsible to me for parents to go off and leave a young child alone. Not because I want to demonize the Ramseys but that's what I feel in regards to ANY child being left alone, when they are under a certain age.

    I'm not a perfect mom, by any means. But I KNOW that I'd never have been able to be at peace, knowing my children were alone and might wake up and be scared, suddenly get sick and start vomiting..or, as heymom commented in an earlier post, wander off and fall in the pool. Truthfully, it's hard to picture the McCanns having a wonderful, happy, relaxing vacation type of dinner when they knew they'd left babies at "home" to fend for themselves.

    I don't know what the exact layout was of the distance between the resturant where the McCanns dined and the hotel room where they left their children, but no matter how "close" some may argue it is...it was obviously far enough away for someone to enter Maddie's room and snatch her without the parents hearing or seeing anything.

    It was a huge error in judgement. I can be genuinely sorry Maddie was taken, I can hope and pray every day that she comes home safely, but it doesn't change the fact that the parents helped set up the circumstances for their child's abduction.

  7. #43

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    Look, I understand that many/most of us KNOW the dangers of predators looking for ways to commit crimes against children. But that's not the POINT. The POINT is that OBVIOUSLY these parents DIDN'T know that their behavior was putting their child at risk. Yes, fires can happen, children wake up afraid, etc. I certainly wouldn't THINK of leaving small children unattended. That's always been an issue with me in the Ramsey case, but I don't mention it much because it's not criminal to bed your small child so far from the master bedroom. Me, I check on my grandson when he's here during the night just out of habit--and he's across the hall with doors open. I'm probably a bit pathetic that way, but then, I've spent WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much time researching and discussing child predators, haven't I?

    Back when my son was a child, I wish I could say I was that careful, but I honestly just wasn't. I even remember taking him and a nephew when they were 11 and 10 to a movie theatre AND DROPPING THEM OFF to see a movie. I CRINGE when I think of it now. Yes, it was a very different time. And yes, we're not so naive now, and never will be again. But the POINT is that these parents in Portugal, no matter what WE know about the dangers inherent in what they did, they obviously did NOT.

    Even in this information age, I actually have friends who do not watch TV. Never. They're not interested in the swill on it...and I honestly can't blame them. They work a lot, travel, go to many concerts and performances, sew, write, cook, visit with family and friends, etc. The internet is a tool they use for work and email, but after work, not interested except for travel plans, concert tickets, picture sharing with family/friends, etc. They read newspapers for their news. The celebrities they recognize are political leaders, favorite authors, classical and theatre performers, composers, etc. They're professionals who work and play hard. Much like the Drs in this case, I'd think. I daresay they know little about the world of pedophiles and criminals we here are so familiar with.

    I don't know what these parents were doing. If they were only out for a relaxing meal, could see their room close by, checked on the children who I would think were in cribs, I can't condemn them as horrible parents for that. Would I do it? Obviously not. Would they do it AGAIN? I doubt it. Will they spend the rest of their lives wondering What was I thinking? That, and much, much worse.

    I'm just not going to kick them for being VICTIMS just because their naive and, yes, a bit careless actions made them more vulnerable to the predator who is THE CRIMINAL in this. That's just me.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase
    Look, I understand that many/most of us KNOW the dangers of predators looking for ways to commit crimes against children. But that's not the POINT. The POINT is that OBVIOUSLY these parents DIDN'T know that their behavior was putting their child at risk. Yes, fires can happen, children wake up afraid, etc. I certainly wouldn't THINK of leaving small children unattended. That's always been an issue with me in the Ramsey case, but I don't mention it much because it's not criminal to bed your small child so far from the master bedroom. Me, I check on my grandson when he's here during the night just out of habit--and he's across the hall with doors open. I'm probably a bit pathetic that way, but then, I've spent WAAAAAAAAAAAY too much time researching and discussing child predators, haven't I?

    Back when my son was a child, I wish I could say I was that careful, but I honestly just wasn't. I even remember taking him and a nephew when they were 11 and 10 to a movie theatre AND DROPPING THEM OFF to see a movie. I CRINGE when I think of it now. Yes, it was a very different time. And yes, we're not so naive now, and never will be again. But the POINT is that these parents in Portugal, no matter what WE know about the dangers inherent in what they did, they obviously did NOT.

    Even in this information age, I actually have friends who do not watch TV. Never. They're not interested in the swill on it...and I honestly can't blame them. They work a lot, travel, go to many concerts and performances, sew, write, cook, visit with family and friends, etc. The internet is a tool they use for work and email, but after work, not interested except for travel plans, concert tickets, picture sharing with family/friends, etc. They read newspapers for their news. The celebrities they recognize are political leaders, favorite authors, classical and theatre performers, composers, etc. They're professionals who work and play hard. Much like the Drs in this case, I'd think. I daresay they know little about the world of pedophiles and criminals we here are so familiar with.

    I don't know what these parents were doing. If they were only out for a relaxing meal, could see their room close by, checked on the children who I would think were in cribs, I can't condemn them as horrible parents for that. Would I do it? Obviously not. Would they do it AGAIN? I doubt it. Will they spend the rest of their lives wondering What was I thinking? That, and much, much worse.

    I'm just not going to kick them for being VICTIMS just because their naive and, yes, a bit careless actions made them more vulnerable to the predator who is THE CRIMINAL in this. That's just me.
    Great post KK. That they left their kids asleep whilst they went downstairs to have something to eat from the Taco bar beside the pool is killing them. They have said that in an interview. "Getting on with their lives" couldn't be further from their minds now and they cannot contemplate returning to their comfortable lives and excellent careers back in the UK. Instead they are preparing themselves to trawl the length and breadth of Continental Europe in an effort to try and find Madeline. It was reported in the news this week that they would willingly cut their arms off if they thought it would bring her back - such is the depth of their pain and despair. They are being advised by experts to release one photo/video every day to keep her in the public eye.

    They are devout Catholics and I think their faith is holding them together.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  9. #45

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    They were interviewed at length on Greta's show yesetrday.

    Is there an active forum anywhere?

  10. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayelles
    I think this is an example of the misinformation and mis-reporting that's going on. The police DID use sniffer dogs. This was all done but the dogs didn't lead the police to Madeline. The problem is Portugese law. The police are prevented from discussing the case - even with the parents. We only know about the use of sniffer dogs because a high ranking official from Scotland Yard was involved and he was interviewed by Scotland Yard.
    This is similar to Dutch law as well. Isn't British law similar too-- the case cannot be discussed?

  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrina
    This is similar to Dutch law as well. Isn't British law similar too-- the case cannot be discussed?
    Our laws aren't quite the same. What happens here is that when someone is charged with a crime, the pro-judice laws kick in and the media cannot report about the case until the trial. In Portugal the police are not allowed to discuss any aspect of the investigation at all - not even with the victims! The McCanns just don't know what is happening. The Portugese police have made a few fairly vague statements but even this is very unusual and seems to be on account of international pressure which wouldn't normally be an issue.

    As I recall, the sniffer dog lost the scent at some place which didn't make a lot of sense to me at the time (I don't want to start any rumours by posting what I have in my mind that this was). On reflection, it's possible that there was a vehicle parked at this place and that is why they lost the scent here.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrina
    They were interviewed at length on Greta's show yesetrday.

    Is there an active forum anywhere?
    I'm sure there will be, but the only ones I've seen are mainly just people posting their prayers.

    The McCann's are currently in Madrid which is the capital of Spain. Spain and Portugal have close ties and there was speculation she may have been taken there. They have received a letter from the parents of another child who was snatched and is currently missing.

    The McCanns are well known in Glasgow. They are a big family and well liked. The are the kind of people who would give you the shirt off their backs.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission



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