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  1. #61

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    Well, gosh, crack ho's, I didn't know you were going to take it so personally or I would have just kept my fingers still.

    I don't know much about the case. It's not been that long since the child went missing. I'm busy right now and don't have time to devote to watching every word on it. But to date, I haven't seen the parents arrested or accused of a crime involving this disappearance, so I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt in that I don't want to add to their grief, no matter HOW negligent their holiday habits with their children were. If the child hadn't gone missing, no one would be condemning these parents for anything, as we'd never have heard of them. Since other parents were also doing the same thing, no matter where they worked, I doubt that any of them actually THOUGHT, OH, think I'll put my children at risk and see if they survive.

    I get the impression that some here want the parents to be drawn-and-quartered because their actions ended in the child missing. I, too, feel for the child. But in the end, unless you think the PARENTS did something to the child, it's just like accusing a RAPE victim of dressing too provocatively, thereby "asking for it": THE PERP IS THE CRIMINAL HERE, not the victims. I guess it's my victim advocacy training, but I'm not going to blame the victim, sorry. Of course these parents made a huge mistake. I don't think they need ANYONE to tell them that now.

    I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think what the parents did was DESERVING of having their child snatched, no matter how slack their parenting skills appear to us, so I'll just pray for a miracle that they find the child well and healthy soon.

    Now, I'm out. Love ya', and pass the crack!

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by tylin
    An excellent link with excellent pictures of the hotel area, including maps, etc and excellent information about the case and the investigation. It is updated daily.
    (FYI-I found this at the Crimeshots forum.)

    SCROLL TO THE END OF THE PAGE TO SEE THE PICS. They can be enlarged.

    http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/

    Wow tylin, thanks for the link. Seeing these photos of the hotel area really brings into perspective the overall scene. I had been reading that the restaurant was "just across the court yard" but now I see that this hotel was a larger complex and the location of their actual hotel room was not even within eye shot from the restaurant, that is it was secluded enough for somebody to get in and out with the child without anybody seeing them.

    While I am sad for Madeleine and the parents that they left the three children alone like this but the bottom line is that this little girl is missing and it shows how quickly something like this can happen whether she walked out of the room on her own or somebody abducted her.

    I hope and pray this child will be found alive and in the process, if nothing else, the international coverage of this case *should* bring serious awareness to all parents that regardless of whether they are home or out of town that childen that age need to be in a protected environment at all times, with a sitter, caregiver or somebody if the parent can't be with them.

    ACR
    ACandyRose (aka ACR)

    ACandyRose Timelines:
    Erica Lynn Parsons Case Timeline Index
    http://www.acandyrose.com/erica_parsons_timeline.htm
    JonBenet Ramsey Archive still here after 17 years !!
    http://www.acandyrose.com/s-Flight755-15thStreet.htm
    http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetindex.htm

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Somewhere over the rainbow
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    3,481

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerXIV
    Thanks for that link. A brief study of those photos shows that the McCanns were both out of sight and out of earshot of their three defenseless babes.

    That Nancy Grace is so ignorant on this case. She continues to claim that the parents were "just steps" away from the babies. That's an outrageous lie!
    By some estimates, they were 100 yards away from the apartment, on winding pathways obscured by trees and walls. That's the length of a football field. Waitstaff at Tapas said they never left the table that night during dinner.

    Even "as the crow flies", Tapas is 60 yards from the apartment. The photos show that the apartment was not in a safe enclosed area, but that the window backed on to a small parking lot, separated from a main highway by only a 3 foot high wall.

    Definitely not a safe place to leave three tots unattended.

    These were not parents who went "downstairs" to a dining room in a hotel, leaving three unattended sleeping babes a few stories up. They went entirely out of the apartment building, down and around a couple of roads bordered by heavy brush, all the way to the OTHER side of a swimming pool, to sit and socialize with three other doctor couples, who had ALSO left their babies, all under 3 years of age, alone and unattended.

    And enough already about Mrs. McCann being "naive". She is an emergecy room doctor. She has probably seen a hundred times over what horrible accidents befall unattended children. She is not an eighteen-year-old inexperienced mother.

    Those McCanns make me as ill as the Ramseys did!!
    These are selfish people who don't want their small children to cause any interference with their plans. Why even have children if you're not going to adjust your lifestyle in any way? If both of them are doctors, they probably don't spend a whole heck of a lot of time with the children anyway, sorry - I've worked with doctors and I know their families' lives are affected by that career choice. The families who have only one doctor as a parent are handicapped - where is the stability with both parents being doctors?

    This is just the culturally normal "my life comes first" attitude of some parents these days. Sacrifice for my kids? What? You must be kidding!

    I completely agree with you Lurker. These people made a choice, and the choice was wrong. I am sorry for Maddie, not for them. No, they don't *deserve* for this to have happened, but they are not getting my empathy. I only wish it hadn't happened, for Maddie's sake, and for her siblings' sakes.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by heymom
    Door handles in Europe are higher than ours. I have never been in a European hotel with American-style doorknobs. A child of 3 could not reach high enough to open the door on her own.
    Ummm, I've also been to Europe, and there were some places with high door handles, and some with door handles at the "American" height. It varied from country to country, and from hotel to hostel to B&B. (We were college students on tour and weren't able to always stay at the finest hotels if you get my drift.) We traveled to England, Belgium, Germany, Austria, Italy, Spain, and France. There was every kind of toilet, room configuration and door. Of course, that was back in 1978. Perhaps with the European Union, they have passed a law that all door handles must be higher than the American average?

    Madeleine could have reached several of the door knobs in rooms where I stayed.

  5. #65

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    Well, if you're going to kick the parents when they're down, at least let's don't share misinformation. I have a several women doctors and let me tell you, they take PLENTY of time off with their families. I've even had one step out of an exam to take a cell phone call from her daughter, saying she was sorry, but this was her daughter. I had NO problem with awaiting her return, as a mother myself.

    I have to say, I'm a little surprised at the quickness and vehemence with which these parents are being condemned. If this is how you really feel, then take solace in the fact that they are suffering terribly and more than any of us can imagine. If this is your judgment, then consider them sufficiently punished. Unless you'll only be satisfied with their heads on a platter.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by LurkerXIV
    Thanks for that link. A brief study of those photos shows that the McCanns were both out of sight and out of earshot of their three defenseless babes.

    That Nancy Grace is so ignorant on this case. She continues to claim that the parents were "just steps" away from the babies. That's an outrageous lie!
    By some estimates, they were 100 yards away from the apartment, on winding pathways obscured by trees and walls. That's the length of a football field. Waitstaff at Tapas said they never left the table that night during dinner.

    Even "as the crow flies", Tapas is 60 yards from the apartment. The photos show that the apartment was not in a safe enclosed area, but that the window backed on to a small parking lot, separated from a main highway by only a 3 foot high wall.

    Definitely not a safe place to leave three tots unattended.

    These were not parents who went "downstairs" to a dining room in a hotel, leaving three unattended sleeping babes a few stories up. They went entirely out of the apartment building, down and around a couple of roads bordered by heavy brush, all the way to the OTHER side of a swimming pool, to sit and socialize with three other doctor couples, who had ALSO left their babies, all under 3 years of age, alone and unattended.

    And enough already about Mrs. McCann being "naive". She is an emergecy room doctor. She has probably seen a hundred times over what horrible accidents befall unattended children. She is not an eighteen-year-old inexperienced mother.

    Those McCanns make me as ill as the Ramseys did!!

    Lurker,
    You are very welcome. I like the way you view this case. I also find the McCann's actions mirroring those of the Ramsey's.

    ACandyRose,
    You too are very welcome.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase
    Well, if you're going to kick the parents when they're down, at least let's don't share misinformation. I have a several women doctors and let me tell you, they take PLENTY of time off with their families. I've even had one step out of an exam to take a cell phone call from her daughter, saying she was sorry, but this was her daughter. I had NO problem with awaiting her return, as a mother myself.

    I have to say, I'm a little surprised at the quickness and vehemence with which these parents are being condemned. If this is how you really feel, then take solace in the fact that they are suffering terribly and more than any of us can imagine. If this is your judgment, then consider them sufficiently
    punished. Unless you'll only be satisfied with their heads on a platter.
    KK,
    I didn't mean to come off as kicking the parents quickly because I've followed Maddy's disappearance from day one. It was obvious to me that her parents were hiding something. The McCann's at first sugar coated the story of their daughter's disappearance by saying they were near the children's bedroom while eating dinner that night. Which proved to be total bs. 2 football field lengths away is not within sight. ) Later they said they checked on the children every 30 minutes. In truth, the McCann's didn't check on the children every 30 minutes---they allowed other friends to supposedly check on the children.

    I agree with Lurker and heymom, the parents were negligent and should be charged with such at a later date. They DID neglect their 3 children and the other children left in the room were neglected by their parents too. It's just plain common sense. IF the parents or a babysitter had been in the room, Madeleine would be with her family today.

    Another part of this case that the parents were not totally honest about was them not leaving the children alone before that night. They admitted to LE that they left the children alone many nights during their month long vacation.
    Last edited by tylin; June 3, 2007, 6:23 pm at Sun Jun 3 18:23:14 UTC 2007. Reason: edited to remove phrase

  8. #68

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    I don't mean to seem callous, but there's just something not right about this. Nothing in my gut tells me they had anything to do with it, but my intellect tells me I can't ignore the possibility.
    They should all drown in lakes of blood. Now they will know why they are afraid of the dark. Now they will learn why they fear the night.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    574

    Default

    Wow!

    I've not been here lately as I've been tied up on a recently formed forum Maddie set up by posters from a crime forum.

    I have watched the forum grow and develop much like many of you must have done with JBR forums, and it's been fascinating.

    Popping in here today and reading your posts I am totally shocked at the pure venom aimed at these parents, from people I consider warm, caring and 'the salt of the earth'. Personally I am not interested in the parents one bit, only Madeleine, but she seems not to be important here - attacking the parents seems to be the most pressing matter...even after four weeks!

    I'm really disappointed.
    "She wore him like wet underwear"

    “Some explanations of a crime are not explanations: they're part of the crime.” Olavo de Cavarlho

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Candyland
    Posts
    5,132

    Unhappy

    Amber - I agree with you. Man's inhumanity to man and all that... I feel it too. I've read quite a few attacks on the parents which have been based on total misinformation and I'm not even going to try and straighten it out.

    The parents are not suspects but what I found interesting was that they were fully accepting of the fact that they had to be investigated as suspects in the early stages of the investigation. They spoke of this as an understandable and crucial process and one which they fully co-operated in. When they did hire lawyers, it was to manage the Madeleine fund because people were trying to give them money and they couldn't accept it by law. There is one rather sweet story about donations. So many people were trying to donate money towards a search fund and it all had to be declined (I know this - I was one of those who tried to donate). Then one morning, someone ran into the hospital where Gerry McCann is a Consultant Cardiologist threw a bucket of money down on the reception desk and bolted before anyone could refuse to take it!

    If the parents or the friends had been involved in her death, there would have to be almighty conspiratorial cover-up and I don't even know how they'd get rid of her body not having a car.

    I checked, and the hotel is used by Thomas Cook holidays. This is one of the big package holiday companies who require their accomodations to comply with stringent standards. I think the hotel is even owned by a Brit.

    The European package holiday does seem to be something quite alien to Americans and I'm done trying to persuade people that it's not unusual for parents to put their kids to bed and then either use the listening service or check on them themselves at intervals. The very fact that baby listening is a fairly standard service offered by the hotels should corroborate that.

    When we go on these holidays, we literally turn up at the domestic airport and the holiday company take over from there. They fly us out, they meet us at the airport and take us to the hotel in coaches. There are reps in the hotel who organise excursions (by coach) to cultural attractions. Then they bus us back to the airport and put us back on the plane. The holiday company pretty much look after everything from travel and accomodation to medical emergencies, excursions, complaints and entertainment. I think disposing/helping to dispose of an inconvenient child's body would be outwith their remit :(
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  11. #71
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase
    Well, if you're going to kick the parents when they're down, at least let's don't share misinformation. I have a several women doctors and let me tell you, they take PLENTY of time off with their families. I've even had one step out of an exam to take a cell phone call from her daughter, saying she was sorry, but this was her daughter. I had NO problem with awaiting her return, as a mother myself.

    I have to say, I'm a little surprised at the quickness and vehemence with which these parents are being condemned. If this is how you really feel, then take solace in the fact that they are suffering terribly and more than any of us can imagine. If this is your judgment, then consider them sufficiently punished. Unless you'll only be satisfied with their heads on a platter.
    Thank you for your posts KK. There IS a lot of misinformation going on here and I'm surprised and disappointed with some of the hate that's going on. I guess I must also be a terrible parent because when we go on our Eurpoean package holiday (ala McCann) we also leave our kids at the kids club to let us have some mum and dad time. We even need to get up early to book the spaces because all these other terrible British/German/Dutch parents have the same idea and slots get quickly booked out.

    I'm out.
    This is my opinion and it may not be copied in whole or in part without my written permission

  12. #72

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    (I hope this doesn't post twice, as I lost the first one.)

    Obviously, this is another polarizing case. I truly don't have the time to devote to learning about it well enough to debate it, though, right now. So I'll just say God speed, Maddie.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.



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