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  1. #37
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    What a circle: emotional abuse causing physical symptoms causing rage and retribution for imperfection. Patsy unable to see herself as the origin.

    A lot of great recent posts, btw.

  2. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sboyd
    I don't know. She could have been douching JonBenet as horrible as it sounds. Steve Thomas says corporal cleaning. This sounds like corporal cleaning to me.

    You know, I inevitably come back to Thomas' beliefs, inevitably.

    I think it was as he said. I don't think John was abusing her. I think Patsy was in the guise of cleanliness. I am not saying she got a thrill out of it. I am saying she was angry and tired of it and she was abusive.
    No, I understand what you are saying. It's just that an angry mother who has never been abused would not abuse her daughter with a douching instrument. She might spank, yell, or even smack, but only someone who had been abused in that area would feel that kind of rage that would cause her to think of douching a 6-year-old little girl. It's a violation, isn't it? And if you have been violated, then you can also violate others. If Patsy did this, then it's a real indictment of her parents, certainly Nedra, and also explains the weird comments of that babysitter who was putting cream on Burke and exclaiming about the size of his equipment. It seems as if boundary violations were the norm in Patsy's family, and maybe there was a lot more physical abuse than mere inappropriate comments.

    I wonder if Nedra could have been the source of JonBenet's abuse.
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  3. #39
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    Paradox, I went to www.narcissisticabuse.com and it's a good site. I pulled this list of narcissistic characteristics and wanted to post them here for all to see. Of course it says "he," but we all know women can be narcissists too.

    CHARACTERISTICS of the NARCISSIST and others with Personality Disorders

    1. Self-centered. His needs are paramount.

    2. No remorse for mistakes or misdeeds.

    3. Unreliable, undependable.

    4. Does not care about the consequences of his actions.

    5. Projects his faults on to others. High
    blaming behavior; never his fault.

    6. Little if any conscience.

    7. Insensitive to needs and feelings of others.

    8. Has a good front (persona) to impress and exploit others.

    9. Low stress tolerance. Easy to anger and rage.

    10. People are to be manipulated for his needs.

    11. Rationalizes easily. Twists conversation to his gain at other’s expense. If trapped, keeps talking, changes the subject or gets angry.

    12. Pathological lying.

    13. Tremendous need to control situations, conversations, others.

    14. No real values. Mostly situational.

    15. Often perceived as caring and understanding and uses this to manipulate.

    16. Angry, mercurial, moods.

    17. Uses sex to control

    18. Does not share ideas, feelings, emotions.

    19. Conversation controller. Must have the first and last word.

    20. Is very slow to forgive others. Hangs onto resentment.

    21. Secret life. Hides money, friends, activities.

    22. Likes annoying others. Likes to create chaos and disrupt for no reason.

    23. Moody - switches from nice guy to anger without much provocation.

    24. Repeatedly fails to honor financial obligations.

    25. Seldom expresses appreciation.

    26. Grandiose. Convinced he knows more than others and is correct in all he does.

    27. Lacks ability to see how he comes across to others. Defensive when confronted with his behavior. Never his fault.

    28. Can get emotional, tearful. This is about show or frustration rather than sorrow.

    29. He breaks woman's spirits to keep them dependent.

    30. Needs threats, intimidations to keep others close to him.

    31. Sabotages partner. Wants her to be happy only through him and to have few or no outside interests and acquaintances.

    32. Highly contradictory.

    33. Convincing. Must convince people to side with him.

    34. Hides his real self. Always “on.”

    35. Kind only if he's getting from you what he wants.

    36. He has to be right. He has to win. He has to look good.

    37. He announces, not discusses. He tells, not asks.

    38. Does not discuss openly, has a hidden agenda.

    39. Controls money of others but spends freely on himself.

    40. Unilateral condition of, "I'm OK and justified so I don't need to hear your position or ideas."

    41. Always feels misunderstood.

    42. You feel miserable with this person. He drains you.

    43. Does not listen because he does not care.

    44. His feelings are discussed, not the partners.

    45. Is not interested in problem-solving..

    46. Very good at reading people, so he can manipulate them.

    Sounds like any 13-year-old...
    "We're not necessarily doubting that God will do the best for us; we are wondering how painful the best will turn out to be." - C.S. Lewis

    MY OPINIONS - DO NOT COPY THEM ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET!

  4. #40
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    2. No remorse for mistakes or misdeeds.
    5. Projects his faults on to others. High
    blaming behavior; never his fault.
    8. Has a good front (persona) to impress and exploit others.
    15. Often perceived as caring and understanding and uses this to manipulate.
    16. Angry, mercurial, moods.
    21. Secret life.
    26. Grandiose.
    32. Highly contradictory.
    34. Hides his real self. Always “on.”
    42. You feel miserable with this person. He drains you.
    46. Very good at reading people, so he can manipulate them.

    Thanks heymom.
    These pop out as describing Patsy. More appropriate to her psyche, other items on the list describe Nedra/Jean Brodie/Patsy. The secret life jumps out too. I've long said that Patsy had this in spades, carried out through literature. And 42 can be seen as the source of JB's "I don't feel pretty" comment. 46 could just as well be "Very good at reading ABOUT people, so he can manipulate them." And the group of individuals that represent the small foreign faction comes from 5.

  5. #41
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    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paradox
    There is the fact that people sometimes commit the sin they themselves have suffered at the hands of another in childhood. Looking at the Paugh family, Patsy and Pam certainly had their problems. Due to what, an abusive narcissistic mother with an enabling husband or a molesting father with an enabling wife?

    From the stories about Nedra I can see her as a narcissist. And John certainly enabled his wife's excesses. The evidence supports the pattern of narcissistic women with enabling husbands.
    For sure Nedra Paugh was a narcisisst. I agree with all you're saying here.
    elle: The RST can't handle the truth!
    Just my opinion.

  6. #42

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    Yeah, she broke her, and JB had to pay.

    So my question still stands. What is the difference between Wendy and others - how does she get a backer and Tom Miller does not. Anyone??
    Name recogniton.
    They should all drown in lakes of blood. Now they will know why they are afraid of the dark. Now they will learn why they fear the night.

  7. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Punisher
    So my question still stands. What is the difference between Wendy and others - how does she get a backer and Tom Miller does not. Anyone??

    Name recogniton.
    Tom Miller's book is just about the JBR case and his observations. Wendy's book is about many other cases, the JBR case is only mentioned on 5 or 6 pages.

  8. #44

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    I can't wait to read both Doc Miller's and Wendy's books.

  9. #45

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    The juggernaut regains momentum!
    They should all drown in lakes of blood. Now they will know why they are afraid of the dark. Now they will learn why they fear the night.

  10. #46

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    A little birdie told me that Wendy Murphy might be doing a chat with FFJ soon.

    Details to come.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  11. #47
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    That would be awesome!
    Jamie

    Life is a journey, always learning what you can, always loving the best you can and realizing you are never alone.

  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by koldkase
    A little birdie told me that Wendy Murphy might be doing a chat with FFJ soon.

    Details to come.
    Someone "out there" knows about FFJ? Weird.



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