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  1. #1

    Default JonBenet exploited, again...by Maketoast.com

    I can't even remember what got me on this tangent today, but after many hours, I've finally gotten onto the angle of one con man, Brandon Havens. I'll post the trail I followed next, but if you've ever been to Maketoast.com, a website ONCE dedicated to JonBenet, you can follow the links and eventually end up in CHAT...with various LINKS, SOME TO SEX CHAT SITES:

    http://www.maketoast.com/chatroom.html

    And that's what Mr. Havens is doing: making money on ads. After following his badly covered trail all day, it began to dawn on me the answer to Tricia's question, asked when Brandon Havens tried to somehow usurp Websleuths after Tricia got it from River: what was he after? Obviously, he was after the forum so he could profit from the huge number of member and reader hits, to make money selling ads.

    I've also found a "JonBenet Ramsey Foundation, Inc", noted by others before, but which hadn't really gotten my attention until today. It has a FAKE BOARD listed online, I believe, as I can find NO INFO ON ANY OF THE ALLEGED MEMBERS...except "John Ramsey", of course--and I don't think so.... It appears Brandon isn't intending on making any money with it, since he states the non-profit status hasn't come through yet, so he's not collecting money...until you find a feeble attempt using the "Ramsey Foundation" to collect money at a benefit for cancer. But we do have a picture, though I have no idea who those poor suckers in the pic are who participated for Havens, nor if they know they've been had. Well, maybe the money did go to cancer...all $10 of it. I suspect this was a ruse to make it all look "legit", after all.

    Brandon uses a P.O.Box number in Fulton Co., Atlanta, Georgia, on his sites, but unless someone ELSE is checking the mail, it's a front, set-up to make his "Foundation" look legitimate.

    You'd think that John Ramsey would GIVE A RIP that con artists are using his murdered child's name to draw in hits to make money with SEX CHAT LINKS.

    Guess not.

    Oh, well, I'll post what I have found online today, and you can decide for yourself what you think. But don't give the sex chat links too many hits, or he'll just make more money off of an abused and murdered child. Shameful jerk!!
    Last edited by koldkase; November 13, 2007, 11:57 pm at Tue Nov 13 23:57:59 UTC 2007. Reason: I'm trying to change the title. What happened to our edit functions on the opening thread post?

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  2. #2

    Default

    JonBenét Ramsey Children's Foundation
    PO BOX 724505
    Atlanta, GA 31139


    Brandon K. Havens, President & Chairman of the Board
    chairman@jonbenetramseyfoundation.org
    Download - VCard


    Karisa D. Almanza, Vice President & Secretary & Board Member
    karisa@jonbenetramseyfoundation.org
    Download - VCard


    Marty J. Smith, Treasure & Board Member
    msmith@jonbenetramseyfoundation.org
    Download - VCard


    John B. Ramsey, Board Member
    jramsey@jonbenetramseyfoundation.org
    Download - VCard


    Terrie L. Sharp, Board Member
    tsharp@jonbenetramseyfoundation.org
    Download - VCard

    http://www.jonbenetramseyfoundation.org/contact.htm

    Domain owned by:


    Domain ID127908757-LROR
    Domain Name:JONBENETRAMSEYFOUNDATION.ORG
    Created On:28-Aug-2006 03:30:13 UTC
    Last Updated On:06-Nov-2007 03:46:40 UTC
    Expiration Date:28-Aug-2008 03:30:13 UTC
    Sponsoring Registraromain People Inc. (R30-LROR)
    Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
    Registrant ID:NN-1191434371239
    Registrant Name:Brandon Havens
    Registrant Organization:JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation
    Registrant Street1:PO BOX 724505
    Registrant Street2:
    Registrant Street3:
    Registrant City:Atlanta
    Registrant State/Province:GA
    Registrant Postal Code:31139
    Registrant Country:US
    Registrant Phone:+1.5402394694
    Registrant Phone Ext.:
    Registrant FAX:+1.5402394694
    Registrant FAX Ext.:
    Registrant Email:bhavens@verizon.net
    Admin ID:NN-1191434372438
    Admin Name:Brandon Havens
    Admin Organization:JonBenet Ramsey Children's Foundation
    Admin Street1:PO BOX 724505
    Admin Street2:
    Admin Street3:
    Admin City:Atlanta
    Admin State/Province:GA
    Admin Postal Code:31139
    Admin Country:US
    Admin Phone:+1.5402394694
    Admin Phone Ext.:
    Admin FAX:+1.5402394694
    Admin FAX Ext.:
    Admin Email:bhavens@verizon.net
    Tech ID:NN-1191434372619
    Tech Name:Brandon Havens
    Tech Organization:Brandon Havens
    Tech Street1:PO BOX 724505
    Tech Street2:
    Tech Street3:
    Tech City:Atlanta
    Tech State/Province:GA
    Tech Postal Code:31139
    Tech Country:US
    Tech Phone:+1.5402394694
    Tech Phone Ext.:
    Tech FAX:+1.5402394694
    Tech FAX Ext.:
    Tech Email:bhavens@verizon.net
    Name Server:NS1.MAKETOAST.COM
    Name Server:NS2.MAKETOAST.COM


    Listed number is a CELL PHONE; (540) 239-4694
    Type: Cell PhoneProvider: Verizon WirelessLocation: Radford, VA


    The zip code listed is an ATLANTA, GA zip code. Brandon has the PO address in Georgia, and the zip is for Fulton County.

    Address listing in Whitepages.com:

    Brandon K Havens
    home
    [address omitted]
    Radford, VA





    Brandon’s contact info listed on Maketoast.com:

    Brandon Havens
    P.O. Box 375
    Radford, VA 24143
    bhavens@verizon.net


    On the Maketoast.com site Brandon “bought” from the original owner, he lists a “tip line” and PO Box with the same number and zip listed on the domain registration, in Atlanta, Ga.—Fulton Co., remember. Who is checking this P.O. Box, if it still exists?

    Tips are still being accepted at the following addresses. All information is kept confidential and any creditable tips will be
    promptly forwarded to the appropriate authorities.

    Tip Line E-Mail: JonBenetinfo@aol.com - Tip Line Address: P.O. BOX 724505, Atlanta, Georgia 31139
    My search for the other “board members”, excluding John Ramsey, turns up NOTHING online. No names connected to either JonBenet, this foundation, or anything else that links them to Brandon, the Ramseys, or this case. I believe Brandon made them up, it’s a fake “foundation”, and he is simply an online entrepreneur who is using JonBenet’s name to make money, or is attempting to, at any rate. Is that why he tried to get WEBSLEUTHS from Tricia? It has HUGE profit potential because of high traffic, and selling ad space can be very profitable. Remember that Groo made $30K selling Cybersleuths, and it was defunct.
    Last edited by koldkase; November 13, 2007, 8:43 pm at Tue Nov 13 20:43:59 UTC 2007.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  3. #3

    Default

    Here is a thread I found at Websleuths, still online but buried in archives I can't get to without a google turning it up. This explains what "Brandon Havens" did there, con artist that he is, pretending to be the ORIGINAL Maketoast.com owner, and trying to roust Tricia from owning the forum. He didn't, thank god, or it would probalby be a porn gateway entirely.

    Websleuths thread on Brandon Havens/faux maketoast:


    Maketoast is no longer with WS (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6669)
    Maketoast is no longer with WS (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6669)

    Tricia 04-13-2004 06:31 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Maketoast is no longer with WS

    Maketoast is no longer a moderator at WS.

    If you are not familiar with Maketoast let me give you a brief background.

    Maketoast use to have a site containing many JonBenet Ramsey pictures and such. "Maketoast" was a teenager when he started out.

    Supposedly someone else purchased the Maketoast site at the end of last year and started using the name Maketoast on the forums. All the while claiming to be a different "Maketoast."

    Maketoast e-mailed me and told me his "real" first name and his "real" job. Said he had been around on the boards for a long time and when the Maketoast name and site went up for sale he grabbed it.

    I was skeptical. It's really too long of a story to go into all the details but let's just say I found it hard to believe that someone out of the blue would buy up the Maketoast name and jump into the forums at this late date in the JBR case.

    I took over ownership of Websleuths almost 3 weeks ago. Maketoast was a moderator on the JBR site. River, the former owner, told me Maketoast was a good moderator so I let it go.

    I then received two bizarre emails from a Richard Gesler or Gusler. Depending on how he wanted to spell his name that day.

    Below is one of the emails.
    `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````````````````````````````
    Patricia. Hi. I am speaking for a large group of posters on the Websleuths
    forum community who do not agree with you being the owner of the site. This is not about you personally, but is for the good of the forum. Websleuths has been my life for years now and I would hate to see the values that myself among others have for Websleuths become something of the past. That is why members have started or are starting a site with a petition for Ownership of Websleuths to be turned over to someone else. I will forward you the Web Address as soon as we are up. Patricia, don't take this the wrong way because it is not directed at you as a person, it's just we believe that the future of this site is on the line, and we all would like it to survive. Please give this some thought. How many people must we have sign before something can be worked out?
    Reguards,
    Richard
    `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````````````````````````````````````
    Then I received another one stating that the petition was going up on April 10th and he would send me the link. He never did.

    I have traced the IP of this email back to a library in a very small town. This same IP matched one that Maketoast used on Websleuths. It is a definite match. There is no question. Maketoast is the person who wrote this email.

    I have been e-mailing Maketoast since Saturday with no response. To me that speaks volumes.

    One other thing. I was able to trace other IP's that Maketoast had used on WS. Several of them went back to a suburb of Atlanta.

    I really don't think anyone jumps into the JBR case this strong. This late in the game.

    By the way the Maketoast site is very pro Ramsey.

    I am not sure what Maketoast thought he would accomplish. Perhaps he was looking to take over WS and I put a wrench in the deal. I don't know.

    I am going to be talking with people over the next few days about being the new moderator of the JBR forum.

    I appreciate your patience and support in this matter.

    Tricia Griffith

    tylin 04-13-2004 07:19 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tricia,
    What a wild story! So it appears this person was really Pro-Ramsey and not the Make-Toast you thought he was? Good grief.

    Tricia 04-13-2004 07:33 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by tylin
    Tricia,
    What a wild story! So it appears this person was really Pro-Ramsey and not the Make-Toast you thought he was? Good grief.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Tylin there is more to it. It's just too long to post it.

    I want to stress I enjoy all opinions. Pro Ramsey/Anti Ramsey/Fence sitters.

    I want all opinions on the forum as long as they post nicely to each other.

    It was Maketoast's Atlanta IP's that bothered me.

    All the other IP's came from a town many hundreds of miles away from Atlanta. Including the library where he sent the petition email from.

    Casshew 04-13-2004 07:44 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Wow ~ what a rollercoaster ride Tricia :crazy:

    Thanx for sharing what you have with us, obviously you did not have to say a word.

    Cassie

    tylin 04-13-2004 08:18 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by Tricia
    Tylin there is more to it. It's just too long to post it.

    I want to stress I enjoy all opinions. Pro Ramsey/Anti Ramsey/Fence sitters.

    I want all opinions on the forum as long as they post nicely to each other.

    It was Maketoast's Atlanta IP's that bothered me.

    All the other IP's came from a town many hundreds of miles away from Atlanta. Including the library where he sent the petition email from.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Tricia,
    I love the JBR forum here and I read it often. It surprises me what some people will do. The letter to you was ugly to say the least IMO. You had a good eye! I'm sure Atlanta probably sent off red flags to you. (I believe that's where J****** lives. phew.

    Shawna 04-13-2004 08:20 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This might be the work of our mysterious letter writer known as Patricia.

    A quote from Misty's website:

    "However, ******* states in a post from June 26, 2000"

    "... I think access to multiple computers and a very strong knowledge of telecommunications might have been a benefit to Patricia."

    What if *******'s husband took ownership of Maketoast? :p

    MysteryMomma 04-13-2004 08:58 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Wow.....I'm new here so I don't get a lot of this stuff. I can barely type let alone think up a way to take over a website...Ignorance is bliss

    tipper 04-13-2004 09:30 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by tylin
    Tricia,
    I love the JBR forum here and I read it often. It surprises me what some people will do. The letter to you was ugly to say the least IMO. You had a good eye! I'm sure Atlanta probably sent off red flags to you. (I believe that's where J****** lives. phew.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    I think she lives in Hickory, NC and has since before the case started.

    Nehemiah 04-13-2004 09:41 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sounds like that old trickster girl. The impersonater!

    IMO

    Ivy 04-13-2004 09:46 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Nehemiah, you think Patsy's pitbull, that old trickster and impersonator Susan Stine, might have been our moderator? The very thought of it creeps me out.

    imo

    tipper 04-13-2004 09:51 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    That's the name that came into my mind...

    Tricia 04-13-2004 09:55 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Me too. SS the Nazi. Susan Stein. Scary woman.

    I have no idea. I think it might actually have been several people.

    I just don't know.

    mindys 04-13-2004 11:43 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Wow, that is something!! Good snag Tricia!!

    Nehemiah 04-14-2004 12:04 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    That trickster

    Yep, Ivy...when Tricia said "Atlanta" that's exactly who I thought. She's such a sly one! Seems impersonation is her forte. And to think I had opportunity to converse with her and missed it....

    Tricia, can you say what state in which that small town is located?

    IMO

    Edited to add another thought.

    Shylock 04-14-2004 12:44 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Will the real MakeToast please stand up?!

    http://www.innerpeacesecurity.com/ww...sages/781.html
    Posted by Nick on July 06, 2002 at 22:30:15:

    Someone hijacked the very first domain I registered in 1997. Maketoast.com. I had planned on owning that domain until I die, but someone stole it. Boy am I :(:(:(:(ed off. Grrr.. Here is the new owner, send her/him some hate mail, the dirty whore/bastard.

    The Director (robin@mutilatednews.com)
    64212353842
    PO Box 14232
    Kilbirnie
    Wellington, 6003
    NZ

    Dammit. Dammit dammit. I know I renewed the domain name. I know I did. It's on my credit card statement. Argh... Not much I can do about it though.
    ---

    I sent this individual an e-mail:

    -----Original Message-----
    From: R. Nick Williams [mailto:nick@innerpeacesecurity.com]
    Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2002 5:03 p.m.
    To: robin@mutilatednews.com
    Subject: maketoast.com

    Hi,

    Thanks a buttload for stealing my domain name. I appreciate it.

    - Nick
    dshadow@mindspring.com
    ---

    Then I got a reply:

    -----Original Message-----
    From: sacX [mailto:sacx@socialreject.com]
    Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 1:41 AM
    To: 'R. Nick Williams'
    Subject: RE: maketoast.com

    Glad to hear it.


    Now I'm near the breaking point.
    ---

    -----------------------------------------------------
    Domain name: MAKETOAST.COM

    Administrative Contact:
    -Maketoast Multimedia-
    Allan Beche (SkyJustice) (admin@maketoast.com)
    +1.5400000000
    Fax:
    N/A
    N/A, VA N/A
    US

    BrotherMoon 04-14-2004 01:31 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Websleuths is a pain in someone's a$$. You can all be proud. I know I am.

    Patsy Ramsey strangled her daughter, then smashed her head deliberately to perpetuate a fantasy that she now comments on; JonBenet is in heaven with a God awaiting her mother's arrival. IMO

    Jayelles 04-14-2004 06:08 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Do you think

    Someone was trying to get on the inside of this forum in order to track down any of our members?

    What information exactly was "maketoast" privy to?

    Tricia 04-14-2004 07:51 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by Jayelles
    Someone was trying to get on the inside of this forum in order to track down any of our members?

    What information exactly was "maketoast" privy to?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Jayelles I am almost certan Maketoast did not have access to any personal info on the posters. I will double check with WeeWily but as far as I can tell Maketoast was only allowed to delete posts.

    Jayelles I have no idea what the intent was in this situation. My opinion is this person was set on trying to control everything Ramsey. Let's look at the chain of events here.

    1- tried to purchase the ACR site

    2-contacted "Justisce Watchers" and asked if the domain was for sale. Just found that one out.

    3- Took over the Maketoast domian. I believe Nick may have been able to get Maketoast back and then sold it. Not sure though. One interesting note. The 2nd person with the most posts on the Maketoast forum? Jammy. Yep the one in North Carolina. What does that tell you

    4-Came into WS 3 days AFTER the first deal with River, Pook and myself fell through. Took a big weight of River's shoulders by helping her and getting on her good side.

    I believe Maketoast thought he could eventually take over WS. He knew River wanted out because of the situation with me. I think when we worked out a deal it through a wrench into his plans. Hence the really stupid "petition" email.

    In my opinion Maketoast was on the make to take over everything that was Ramsey and to turn it into Pro Ramsey.

    To me this has an agenda written all over it.

    Just my opinion though. Who knows?

    BrotherMoon 04-14-2004 01:27 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Some of the recent proRamsey posts here were insipid, now they look transparent as well.

    Britt 04-14-2004 01:39 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by BrotherMoon
    Websleuths is a pain in someone's a$$. You can all be proud. I know I am.

    Patsy Ramsey strangled her daughter, then smashed her head deliberately to perpetuate a fantasy that she now comments on; JonBenet is in heaven with a God awaiting her mother's arrival.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    I agree. I also think John Ramsey is a perv who molested JonBenet.

    Tricia, you are awesome. Outstanding work.

    sissi 04-14-2004 02:43 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    From: sacX [mailto:sacx@socialreject.com]
    : Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 1:41 AM
    : To: 'R. Nick Williams'
    : Subject: RE: maketoast.com


    : Glad to hear it.




    :
    : _____________________________________________

    : If I ever see this f****** jerk in person I swear to Christ I'm going to rip out his f****** spine, burn it, and spit on the ashes.

    : Sorry if I offended anyone. If I feel bad about saying this in a day or two I may come back and edit it, but right now I'm so mad I don't give a :(:(:(:( what I'm saying. Bye.

    One shylock didn't put up..guess the language?
    Okay..Toasty had his site up for sale,advertised it for awhile...so what is this all about?
    He stated he wanted it forever? Yet had it up for sale?
    Then we assumed it was sold?

    sissi 04-14-2004 02:57 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I know many of you hate J,however,she is who she says she is,no more no less!
    She did not write the Patricia letters,she is not Toast and never has been.
    NMO it's the truth

    Shylock 04-14-2004 03:33 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by sissi
    I know many of you hate J,however,she is who she says she is,no more no less!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    If you believe that, I have some oceanfront property in Idaho to sell you.
    At one time at least half the people posting at the Swamp were the Skank in disguise. She even slipped up a couple times and signed the wrong name.

    Watching you 04-14-2004 03:52 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Chief Little Head

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by sissi
    I know many of you hate J,however,she is who she says she is,no more no less!
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ******* is not worth hating, it's just wasted emotion. Besides, hatred eats at the person who harbors it, and it is far too personal to hate someone you don't even know. Just about everyone I know hates her actions and her lies, though. No one I know cares if she lives or dies, though I doubt the world would miss her much if she were not here.

    LovelyPigeon 04-14-2004 05:12 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Shylock, I don't know which hats you have in mind that you believe she assumed, but I've met quite a few posters in person from that forum, and been in chat with more (and they had different ISPs).

    I think the accusations of multiple hats are based on emotion rather than fact.

    I have no idea who the maketoast that was moderator here is. I know the real life name of the original maketoast (and it's posted with a note of gratitude to him from ACandyRose on her site) but I've never met him.

    Is the maketoast here supposed to be the same mtoast who has a forum of his/her own?


    Fleur Delacour 04-14-2004 05:43 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by sissi
    I know many of you hate J,however,she is who she says she is,no more no less!

    NMO it's the truth
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    You mean except for those times she said she was a man. Or the time she said she was....and the.......

    WhiteWolf 04-14-2004 06:25 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I see "R Nick Williams" has the hat "dshadow". There is a member at maketoast.com with the same hat (dshadow).

    Barbara 04-15-2004 09:21 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by LovelyPigeon
    Shylock, I don't know which hats you have in mind that you believe she assumed, but I've met quite a few posters in person from that forum, and been in chat with more (and they had different ISPs).

    I think the accusations of multiple hats are based on emotion rather than fact.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    LP, the AMOUNT of multiple hats may in fact, be based on emotion, but there have been incidents where it was proven over and over again that there were many hats attributed to her and her alone. When confronted and caught, she dismissed the issues with "error", etc.

    So somewhere between 20 hats that over the years were IN FACT hers and the 100 that are speculated about is the truth. Make no mistake, there were multiple hats and there are real records of it along with private e mails to and from her to prove it.

    Just something else she didn't tell you about. She is very selective that way

    LovelyPigeon 04-15-2004 09:29 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Barbara I know of no "facts" that she had any multiple hats, much less dozens of them. The myth about hats seems to grow larger as time goes by.

    I know there were administrative hats that varied slightly in spelling but those were acknowledged--and they weren't used to post case information or to pretend it was someone other than herself doing the posting. Perhaps you are thinking of those?

    I know that I have met quite a few of the real life individuals who posted there, and chatted with even more who had unique ISPs on mIRC.

    Misty 04-15-2004 10:56 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    SkyJustice is who appeared at Purgatory and ACR. Sissi would know more about the real maketoast, Nick.


    From: skyjustice Nov-14 3:35 pm
    To: ALL (1 of 2)
    1710.1 Hello Posters,
    I just thought I would let everyone know the "maketoast.com" site will be returning on Sunday, November 16, 2003. Four months ago, I bought the site, and the design rights, and wasn't sure if I wanted to post it again or not, but after the many email's I have received, I think that it is time to bring it back. Their are several new things on the site, which will require your imput. This is a work in progress and I look foward to hearing from you all. If you have a comment, please feel free to email me at: admin@maketoast.com
    Thanks-
    thread continued next post

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  4. #4

    Default

    I'm cutting some side issues that came up on the thread.

    Tricia 04-15-2004 11:34 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Lurke away

    Heard from Maketoast. He admitted he was Richard who wrote the email. Very strange email from him. Apologizing all over the place.

    More later

    [snip]

    River 04-17-2004 09:45 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Holy Sh*t!

    Maketoast is a freak of nature. I had no clue who she/he is. I'm still confused. I thought Nick was a really neat guy, he's behind all of this? I know that someone else bought his site. Is that the jerk?

    MakeToast came along right after I :(:(:(:(ed off Maxi and she left. Since I rarely had time to post- let alone run this place- I'm just very :(:(:(:(ed off.

    Tricia 04-17-2004 11:37 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by River
    Holy Sh*t!

    Maketoast is a freak of nature. I had no clue who she/he is. I'm still confused. I thought Nick was a really neat guy, he's behind all of this? I know that someone else bought his site. Is that the jerk?

    MakeToast came along right after I :(:(:(:(ed off Maxi and she left. Since I rarely had time to post- let alone run this place- I'm just very :(:(:(:(ed off.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    River I have no idea if Nick is behind all of this. Here is what I know now.

    In my opinion the real owner of the maketoast site is a 19 year old kid named Brandon Havens.

    On one of Brandon's websites back in 2002 he listed working on the "Maketoast" site as one of his credits. The maketoast site owned by Nick. That "credit" shortly disappeared after we found it. Brandon and Nick do know each other. Here is the site that I am talking about. Trust me the maketoast mention was there. I have a screen shot of it somewhere I believe. http://www.mcps.org/auburn/author/Author.html


    Why were we looking? Because on Forums for Justice a poster named dutch was claiming he was in Salt Lake City helping the family of Elizabeth Smart. Dutch said he was a retired detective from North Carolina who spent his own money to go to Salt Lake to help the Smarts. He posted about his meetings with them and his involvement in the Smart case.

    Needless to say it was a total lie. The Smarts were not pleased that someone was claiming to be in their inner circle helping them search for Elizabeth and then posting about it. In addition to impersonating a retired police officer.

    Through some great detective work by a poster named VP we found that "dutch" was really a then 17 year old kid named Brandon Havens. Brandon had given someone his number and we called it. His step-mommy answered and said Brandon was in school.

    Brandon wrote me an email admitting his lies. Interestingly it was very similar to the email the new maketoast sent me admitting he was Richard.

    So we know Nick (the original maketoast) and Brandon (the new maketoast) are connected from our research in 2002. I understand Nick claims he doesn't know who owns the maketoast site now. Nick is lying through his teeth because here is the text of the email Brandon sent me explaining how he has communicated with Nick and how he (Brandon) is buying the maketoast site. From Nov. 2002.

    From: "Brandon K. Havens"
    To: "Tricia"
    Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 9:29 AM
    Subject: Re: maketoast


    > Tricia,
    > Hey, sorry for the delay. I had a football game
    > last night our last one (Senior Night for our band)
    > and I am just now getting around to checking my mail.
    > Maketoast. It is a wonderful site. Several months ago
    > I talked to Mr. Nick Williams about buying the domain
    > and the rest of the site from him. Somewhere along
    > that time, "Maketoast.com" was hi-jacked as he put it
    > by some of the people who own ebay.com. I didn't know
    > this at the time and so I contacted Nick again about
    > the domain in which he told me about it being stolen.
    > I guess he had forgot to renew the name. As you might
    > know, Nick was also the former owner of the
    > "Offthesubject.com" domain name which he let me take
    > over or registure. So I really wanted this domain so I
    > had my Uncle contact Nick and ebay in which ebay has
    > decided to sell us the domain name for $300. This I am
    > willing to pay. So sence I am in the process of buying
    > the "Maketoast.com" domain name, I told Nick that I
    > would buy it and I would be willing to give it back to
    > him free of charge sence it was his to begin with. He
    > said not to worry about it, so I asked him about using
    > the contents in the way they were before the site
    > closed and he said no problem. So now I am in the
    > middle of buying the domain from ebay and I now own
    > the other aspects of the site. I am still willing to
    > give it back to him sence they took it but he won't
    > hear of it so I am planing once I finish buying
    > everything, to dedicate a special page to Nick and the
    > past history of Maketoast! Again sorry for the delay,
    > sometimes I hate being a Senior, what to do? lol.
    > Ok. If you think of something else, feel free to let
    > me know.
    > Best,
    > -Brandon-


    Fast forward to this mess. We have "maketoast" admitting to me he was Richard. I had accused the new maketoast of being Brandon. The same Brandon that posed as dutch on FFJ in the summer of 2002. Which he denied. But since Brandon is not the sharpest knife in the drawer it was easy to prove the new maketoast was Brandon. The new Maketoast tried to sell some NASCAR items on WS. The name he gave to address the money to?

    BRANDON..Yes indeed. He gave his name as Brandon and then a P.O. Box listed in the same city where we called Brandon Haven's step-mommy in 2002.

    The same Brandon that listed work on the original Maketoast site as one of his credits on one of his websites.

    To review quickly.

    Brandon posed as a retired police officer to try and insert himself in the Smart case. He admitted he was guilty of this in an email in 2002.

    This same Brandon did work for the old Maketoast site owned by Nick and communicated directly with Nick concerning the purchase of the maketoast site. Even offering to let Nick have it back if he wanted. For Nick to claim he doesn't know who owns it is such a lie I am speechless.

    The "new" maketoast wrote a really stupid email to me, using an alias, saying a petition was being drawn up to have me removed as the owner of WS.

    The "new" maketoast admitted he wrote the petition email yet denied being Brandon.

    The "new" maketoast gave his name as Brandon to people purchasing NASCAR items from him. Also gave a P.O. Box in the same town in which Brandon Havens was from.

    The original maketoast, Nick, claims not to know the new maketoast. Yet the new maketoast, Brandon, did work for his site a few years ago.

    The questions are many.

    Why did Brandon try and buy up ACandyRose's site?

    Why did Brandon, posing as someone who followed the JBR case and just now wanted to get involved, jump into WS three days after my first attempt at ownership failed.

    Why did Brandon suck up to River and take all the work load off of her?

    What was he trying to accomplish?

    Why did Brandon write that really dumb email to me? Why did he want me gone as the owner of WS?

    Why on Brandon's site www.maketoast.com is the second most prolific poster Susan Bennett?

    Why does the original owner of maketoast deny that he knows the new owner when in fact they have worked together before?


    By the way in addition to the hat maketoast Brandon uses Sky Justice.

    Brandon aka maketoast had IP's from not only his home state but from Atlanta and Texas. I doubt if he traveled to those areas. I am guessing he let others use his hat.

    The only thing Brandon was allowed to do other than post was to delete threads and posts. He had no other privileges.

    All of this stinks. As does everything in the Ramsey case.

    I am still investigating and will continue to make public everything I find.

    If anyone has any more information please PM me or email me at tgrif@xmission.com

    Thanks
    Tricia
    thread continued next post

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  5. #5

    Default

    Here is the last section, with the ORIGINAL MAKETOAST coming online to clear up a few things:

    WolfmarsGirl 04-19-2004 02:15 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Tricia,

    Is it possible that this is all some kind of an elaborate prank by one or more kids (Richard, Brandon, etc...)?

    Maybe the original maketoast had marginal interest in the JBR case but was far more interested in poking fun at those of us who took this case, and our respective sleuthing, far more seriously than he did?

    Could it have started out 'for real,' and turned into a joke for him?

    I think all of these kids are probably, in reality, just one guy. I think he (they?) is (are?) harmless.

    The only thing that bugs me is the email you posted from 'Brandon.' He seems to go to great lengths to prove he is just a young school boy. What's up with that?

    And 'sence' is a little too close to 'hence,' lol. What the heck is 'sence?' :confused:

    Tricia 04-19-2004 02:51 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by WolfmarsGirl
    Tricia,

    Is it possible that this is all some kind of an elaborate prank by one or more kids (Richard, Brandon, etc...)?

    Maybe the original maketoast had marginal interest in the JBR case but was far more interested in poking fun at those of us who took this case, and our respective sleuthing, far more seriously than he did?

    Could it have started out 'for real,' and turned into a joke for him?

    I think all of these kids are probably, in reality, just one guy. I think he (they?) is (are?) harmless.

    The only thing that bugs me is the email you posted from 'Brandon.' He seems to go to great lengths to prove he is just a young school boy. What's up with that?

    And 'sence' is a little too close to 'hence,' lol. What the heck is 'sence?' :confused:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    I am in contact with the original as we speak. He is assuring me he has had nothing to do wtih this Brandon jerk. He is offering me some interesting information concerning his past contact with him.

    So Wolfsmarsgirl I think you are on the right track anyway. I think this Brandon person is a kid who is doing this just to mess with us BUT a couple of things really bother me.

    Why did the Maketoast we had at WS use several IP's from Georgia? Those IP's are a good 6 hours drive from his home state which is very close to Patsy's home state by the way.

    I just don't know. I am glad that Nick, the original Maketoast, has contacted me to explain what he knows. I really appreciate that.

    I'll keep you posted.
    Tricia

    dshadow 04-22-2004 02:50 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    rock band

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by LovelyPigeon
    Is the hat SkyJustice the same real person (Nick) who originally owned the maketoast.com site and moderated here as maketoast?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    I'm confused by that.. I'm Nick who originally owned maketoast but I never moderated here as maketoast. The person who now owns maketoast.com (SkyJustice) for some reason continued to use my 'maketoast' hat, thus tricking at least a few people into thinking he/she was the original. This newfangled internet contraption can be a silly thing sometimes.

    dshadow 04-22-2004 03:06 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    smilies are fun

    Yes! More of this silly internet thing!

    The individual who is generally referred to as the "new" maketoast, has also made use of my 'dshadow' hat in the past. Be assured, I'm the "original" maketoast, RNW, dshadow@mindspring.com, the friendly guy with a rock band. :dance:

    I logged into my user control panel at earthlink/mindspring the other day and I was delighted to find out that my dshadow@mindspring.com e-mail address turns 9-years-old this December. That would explain the 250 SPAM e-mails I get every single day...

    I'm in the mood for smilies! :crazy:

    Babcat 04-22-2004 05:44 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Just an idea...

    Maybe Brandon's family travels somewhat often. I went on a trip to Tallahassee while my kids were on spring break. While I was there I checked in on websleuths to keep up with any new news on the Hargon case. I don't think I posted anything during that time but only read. But I was using my sister-in-law's computer so if I did post the IP should have indicated that the post came from Florida even though I actually live in Oklahoma. So it is possible the Atlanta IP has an innocent explanation that has nothing to do with the Ramseys, or any friends or aquaintances of their family.

    mindys 04-22-2004 08:13 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by Babcat
    Just an idea...

    Maybe Brandon's family travels somewhat often. I went on a trip to Tallahassee while my kids were on spring break. While I was there I checked in on websleuths to keep up with any new news on the Hargon case. I don't think I posted anything during that time but only read. But I was using my sister-in-law's computer so if I did post the IP should have indicated that the post came from Florida even though I actually live in Oklahoma. So it is possible the Atlanta IP has an innocent explanation that has nothing to do with the Ramseys, or any friends or aquaintances of their family.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Me too, my in-laws live just a few hours away but in another state, when visiting I log on and probably have posted from there too.

    Tricia 04-22-2004 11:36 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by mindys
    Me too, my in-laws live just a few hours away but in another state, when visiting I log on and probably have posted from there too.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Babcat and Mindys you are both correct. I log on all over the place. One day I logged on from home. 12 hours later I logged on from Mexico.

    I Believe it is extremely possible that Brandon traveled. I thought of that of course and he had other IP's as well. Texas being one.

    It's just that it was in Georgia. Home to Lin Wood and the Ramseys. Use to be home to the Ramseys anyway.

    Here we have someone who has followed me and tried to infiltrate both of my forums with phony stories. Who has IP's in Georgia when he is far away from Georgia. That is the only thing that makes me say, "hmmm."

    More than likely Brandon is an obsessed kid who for some reason thinks he has to lie to get his way. But a part of me thinks, "what if it's more than that?"

    Sorry don't mean to sound dramatic.

    sissi 04-23-2004 12:59 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'll play. Toasty......you were never dshadow@access.com? (Access Graphics)

    Who are Emily and David?
    Who was madcircle?
    How about Robert C.W.??
    Always wanted to know.....
    Gov

    Babcat 04-23-2004 03:02 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I thought he was a teenager in 1997. How could he have worked at Access Graphics? That IS weird though... the whole thing is sort of creepy.

    smile22 04-23-2004 10:12 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    maketoast and brandon or whatever the 2 people are he said something in the email to u about ebay taking over the site what does ebay have to do with the maketoast site i really dont know anything about nick maketoast and brandon, but him telling u that ebay wanted the site how does ebay fit into the whole site unless ebayt sells domain names? kinda confuses me and how old is this nick guy?

    Misty 04-23-2004 10:30 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Where did the original MakeToast get all those photos of JBR and the family for that website?

    And, didn't MakeToast also use an email address: budrosser@mindspring.com. mindspring is based out of Atlanta, Georgia.

    Nehemiah 04-23-2004 11:40 AM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is getting interesting and weirder.

    Tricia 04-23-2004 12:44 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by Nehemiah
    This is getting interesting and weirder.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    You got that right. Jeesh.

    I do know that at one time when you went to the maketoast domain it lead you to eBay meaning the domain was pointing at eBay for some reason.


    RiverRat 04-23-2004 12:50 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Remember........

    FakeToast was selling items here ala E-Bay style.

    RR

    LinnieB 04-23-2004 12:56 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    :laugh: :laugh:



    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by RiverRat
    FakeToast was selling items here ala E-Bay style.

    RR
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Babcat 04-23-2004 01:02 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Possibly just gossip...

    ...but at one time I heard the rumor that Susan Stein (SS... Nazi... :laugh: pretty funny analogy there Tricia. Not sure I'd agree with such characterization since "thems fightin' words"... but it is funny none the less) was indeed posting on Websleuths and other forums. But the hat I was given as the authentic identity of Ms. Stein has not been mentioned here in this thread unless I've missed it.

    At the onset of the case weren't there tabloids... or even legit press... that published family photos that were not widely published later? Maybe the Ramseys sought an injunction to halt the publication of certain family photos if they were snapshots taken by actual family members.

    Photos are a funny thing when something like this happens. You never think that your family photos can end up on the cover of People magazine when you are just "average" non-celebrity people. I realize that millionaires aren't exactly "average" to most of us... but if they aren't celebrities for other reasons, they normally can feel somewhat safe that nobody is paying out money to view their family. But professional photographs don't belong to the family and many people are naive to that.

    I remember first being appalled at the reality of the "copyright extortion scheme" when my oldest daughter was a baby. Absolutely gorgeous photos of her were taken by Olan Mills and I was entitled only to my free 8X10 that came with the promotion. (I'm sure most young first time moms have been caught in the "Olan Mills Trap", as I've come to refer to it.) The 8X10 I was entitled to have as part of my "package" was bland, with basic blue background. If I wanted the fancy ones with halo effect or pretty foliage background etc... I was welcome to have them for about $300.00 dollars, complete!! But since I didn't have $300.00 extra in my wallet, (most average moms don't) then they would stay safely with Olan Mills... who owned them. I was totally stunned (naivete' to the max) that someone ELSE could claim ownership of photos that were clearly MY CHILD! . How dare they??!! My reasoning was: What are they ever going to gain by having them? What good are these photos (of a child they don't even know) to them? They've already paid out the cost of film, developing, special effects, and photographer salary. They won't recover that from anyone else, and if I can't afford their price why wouldn't they just cut me a deal I could afford? At least they would recover most of their expenses, (most likely all of their expenses and then some) but they just wouldn't make the incredibly inflated profit they wanted. But Olan Mills do not haggle (or they didn't then)... the pricks!... :razz: (pardon my bluntness) even though they still would retain the negatives and could reproduce the photos anytime they wanted... though I couldn't imagine then, what event would ever make them want to do that.

    I can imagine that high photo prices didn't matter to the Ramseys because they could afford it. They probably bought what they wanted and didn't give it a second thought. But when the family became the focus of a high profile crime, the ownership of those negatives became money in the bank for any photographer that photographed Jon Benet. And there wasn't a thing they could do about it.

    But snapshots of Jon Benet taken by the family themselves, or by friends, are the property of the owner of the camera. If someone obtained copies of those, they had to do it in a fashion that lacked scruples, and probably was illegal, depending on the camera owner. I believe the law requires consent from all identifiable people in the photographs in order to publish non-copyrighted photos in a public forum. But snapshots of Jon Benet (non professional photos) did appear in magazines early in the case without consent. And most likely the publication of those was halted as soon as it was discovered by the family. But the cat was out of the bag and anyone who got their hands on them could have scanned them right on to a website without much worry at that time that there would be prosecution or harassment. In 1997 internet laws were almost non existant and those in place were vague.

    If Nick or Brandon somehow acquired those photos from a source it could explain how so many "rare" family pictures fell into their possession and they would not have to have any connection to the actual family, or even know them at all. It isn't convincing proof that they had any inside info that others did not have... just savy and the luck to seize an opportunity.

    Atlanta is a big city... not to mention that Georgia is a big state. Neither John Ramsey nor Patsy Ramsey were originally from Atlanta. I think their actual circle of family members and good friends in Atlanta was much more limited than it would have been if they'd been raised there, with all extended family also being there. I'd lean more toward an unscrupulous employee of a local photo developer, than an actual family member or friend. But even that is far fetched. How would someone have known to hold on to duplicate prints of everyday family photos of people they don't know without any prior knowledge that this child would be the victim of a high profile crime? Even Little Miss Colorado (or whatever the title was) is unlikely to net you much money from interested tabloids.

    becca 04-23-2004 01:38 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Babcat,
    All professional photographers aren't like that.... I've been doing this for many years and I don't call what I do a scheme. Yes my photographs are copyrighted and I retain ownership of that. In order to use those same photographs in a public display, advertising or even on the wall of my studio I have to have a signed consent form. Can I use them with out a consent form not legally. Do some photographers do it , I'm sure they do. Will I ever ? Not a chance.
    Sorry for butting in here but I had to stand up for those of us in the photography business that have some ethics.

    dshadow 04-23-2004 02:19 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A to the O to the L

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by sissi
    I'll play. Toasty......you were never dshadow@access.com? (Access Graphics)

    Who are Emily and David?
    Who was madcircle?
    How about Robert C.W.??
    Always wanted to know.....
    Gov
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Holy cow you're govski, I remember chatting with you a long time ago in the jbr chat room on AOL circa 1997. Who else was there back then? Maizie5, Chowoman, WhodunitCO, jackeeh, karlyrie, that's about all I can remember right now.

    But no the only dshadow address I've had is the MindSpring one.. I did go by madcircle once but that was back in 1994-95. Where in the world did you find that name? I'm not sure about Emily and David, or Robert C.W., even though both of those sound vaguely familiar.

    dshadow 04-23-2004 02:24 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    in the hizzie

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by Misty
    Where did the original MakeToast get all those photos of JBR and the family for that website?

    And, didn't MakeToast also use an email address: budrosser@mindspring.com. mindspring is based out of Atlanta, Georgia.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Tabloids, tabloids, and more tabloids...

    My only MindSpring address is dshadow. Unless you're talking about the "new" maketoast in which case he was known to use at least 7 to 10 different e-mails/identities.

    dshadow 04-23-2004 02:30 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    money

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by smile22
    maketoast and brandon or whatever the 2 people are he said something in the email to u about ebay taking over the site what does ebay have to do with the maketoast site i really dont know anything about nick maketoast and brandon, but him telling u that ebay wanted the site how does ebay fit into the whole site unless ebayt sells domain names? kinda confuses me and how old is this nick guy?
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    I think it was referring people to ebay for ad revenue. Whoever registered the domain when my ownership expired simply wanted to make money off of it.

    I'm 23!

    sissi 04-23-2004 03:10 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It never disturbed me that you "were 17",but "ya" know I never really believed that.
    Maybe because I was an east european jew/amish woman who had to pedal her puter,or that sweet ,sweet Jackee (passed away about 4 yrs ago) was a young and vibrant new mother,(actually in her heart she was but in reality she was 67) The early days,on the net, gave way to a new use of anonymity that was not accessible in any other arena,and it was fun!. I particularly liked "hairy women" who was a hoot! I liked her soooo much she had to be a man,or I was having some "tendencies". LOL
    Yep,that's how it WAS,all of us were something else in the early to mid nineties,and either you were the most mature 17 yr old living,or you never "fessed up".. :-)
    JMO

    dshadow 04-23-2004 03:18 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally Posted by sissi
    It never disturbed me that you "were 17",but "ya" know I never really believed that.
    Maybe because I was an east european jew/amish woman who had to pedal her puter,or that sweet ,sweet Jackee (passed away about 4 yrs ago) was a young and vibrant new mother,(actually in her heart she was but in reality she was 67) The early days,on the net, gave way to a new use of anonymity that was not accessible in any other arena,and it was fun!. I particularly liked "hairy women" who was a hoot! I liked her soooo much she had to be a man,or I was having some "tendencies". LOL
    Yep,that's how it WAS,all of us were something else in the early to mid nineties,and either you were the most mature 17 yr old living,or you never "fessed up".. :-)
    JMO
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    Aww, I enjoyed the fact that you gals were always skeptical of my age. I doubt I was the most mature 17-year-old, and I've certainly lost most of that maturity since then.

    sissi 04-23-2004 08:01 PM

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is ,indeed,the original Toast,no doubts here
    As you have matured,Toast,have your thoughts changed concerning the case?
    Not that I am itimating that maturity should change your ideas,(stepping softly here), more in that much has been uncovered over the last few years that could exonerate the Ramseys. Were you at all impressed with Carnes decision?
    JMO

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  6. #6

    Default

    This article sent up red flags for me, because as you can SEE from what the ORIGINAL MAKETOAST said, BRANDON HAVENS LIED TO THE REPORTER IN THIS ARTICLE, IMO, by implying he started the maketoast site himself! What a creep. He's going to have a long life of white collar crime, or at least the conscienceless exploitation of anyone, including helpless child victims, I can see that now.

    After 10 years, JonBenet case still captivates
    Friday, August 18, 2006
    By Monica Haynes, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

    JonBenet.

    There's no need for a last name.

    In death, this 6-year-old moppet with the sparkling blue eyes and blond hair achieved the kind of fame held by one-monikered icons like Cher and Madonna.

    In the days following her 1996 murder, videos of the tiny beauty queen strolling to and fro across the stage in cowgirl spangles or Las Vegas showgirl glitter seemed to play on a continuous loop on every news channel.
    Her smiling face graced the covers of supermarket tabloids and celebrity magazines. Experts and authors popped up overnight with their essays, books and Web sites, all seeming to have a theory or some special insight into who killed JonBenet.

    [blahblahblah snip]

    The case even became fodder for the scandal-mongering "E! True Hollywood Story," which will re-air an episode on JonBenet's murder at noon Sunday.
    Since Mr. Karr's arrest, a Google search of JonBenet renders nearly 7.5 million Web hits, including to sites established by Brandon Havens, a 22-year-old bank employee from Radford, Va. Among them: jonbenetlegacy.org and patseyramsey.com.

    His most popular, however, is maketoast.com, a name he chose because it was "totally off the wall and different," he said.

    "I've followed the case for as long as I can remember," Mr. Havens said, although he did not develop the Web site until 2003.


    First published on August 18, 2006 at 12:00 am
    Post-Gazette TV editor Rob Owen contributed to this report. Monica Haynes can be reached at mhaynes@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1660.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  7. #7

    Default

    And one more thing I found on my search, info which I missed when it was posted long ago: speaking of people making money from a murdered child, Spade answers the question of who had the interview tapes she sold to the NE...with her own words on her own forum, which I also missed somehow. JAMS HERSELF WROTE they came TO TRACEY AND MILLS, COMPLIMENTS OF LIN WOOD. Now I don't believe the anonymous mail story at all. She knew exactly who had the tapes, as she states in her own post:

    http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...9&page=1&pp=12


    November 10, 2003, 8:13 pm, Mon Nov 10 20:13:44 CST 2003
    Spade
    Member Join Date: Aug 2003
    Location: Denver, CO
    Posts: 855

    SueSwamp

    Posted by Jams at the swamp: "Spade is posting some of AMI's transcript that did not get into the book they published. He is complaining about some bits being left out and wrote that jameson and Lin Wood didn't want that made public. I had to laugh. Lin made the tapes available to CBS and to Mills and Tracey - they took what they wanted for their programs. I made a copy of the tapes available to AMI - they paid to have it transcribed and they used whatever parts they wanted - - Lin and I didn't have any say in what they cut out......
    Here is a link to an interview of the woman who was in the CBS "LIES AND MORE LIES" series, where she first brought out the Ramsey interview tapes to air: the date is 10/2002:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_vi...e=search_video

    Here are some more clips:

    http://search.cbsnews.com/?i=1&q=Jon...r_created=2002

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.

  8. #8

    Default

    Thanks for all your hardwork KK.
    Check your pms please.

  9. #9
    RiverRat's Avatar
    RiverRat is offline FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Left is Patsy Ramsey)
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    Default Great Digging!

    I have to run through all this again, but have you checked the archives here yet, KK?
    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  10. #10
    RiverRat's Avatar
    RiverRat is offline FFJ Sr. Member Extraordinaire (Pictured at Left is Patsy Ramsey)
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    Default

    "Don't play dumb with me, RR! You're no good at it." The Punisher

    "Although no one is anticipating a prompt resolution to this long and much-detoured case, perhaps - just perhaps - might we see one of those moments “when a chance arrow of history scores a perfect bullseye on a deserving target”? Steve Thomas 2009

    "Justice hasn't had a chance so far. Anyone who doesn't have this as their prime goal, we'll have a falling out with." Fleet White - Time Magazine

    "What happens is that evil comes in," Fleet says. "If you don't have truth, all you have are lies, then what comes in is evil. And evil just does its thing. In the Ramsey case, it just did its thing, and it's eaten up so many people."

  11. #11

    Default

    Thanks, RR. I bumped those threads.

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

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    3 Dimensional

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  12. #12

    Default

    Thanks for changing the title for me, Moab. I am such a hothead.... But that's the pyrate in me!

    "University of Colorado Law Professor Paul Campos declared the letter a 'reckless exoneration.' He went on to state, 'Everyone knows that relative immunity from criminal conviction is something money can buy.
    Apparently another thing it can buy is an apology for even being suspected of a crime you probably already would have been convicted of committing if you happened to be poor.'"
    FF: WRKJB?

    ~~~~~~~
    Bloomies underwear model:
    3 Dimensional

    ~~~~~~
    My opinions, nothing more.



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